Update: D.J. Williams back with Illini

The Transfer Portal
Are you saying they're comparable?

I didn't read anybody running down the character of a 19-year old kid.
Oh?

DJ plays hard when he wants.

He has only no one else to blame but himself.
Stop denying the fact that the kid has had a questionable motor and work ethic since his freshman year of HS.
It also looked as if there may have been some deleted/edited posts.

At least in my case, I discussed his motor consistency problems, which have been discussed on this board since he committed to Illinois. And aren't exactly a secret since most evaluators were saying the same thing since he was in high school.
Do we have ANY details about why he was gone? I don't think I've seen any. Yet that didn't stop some people from going, at warp speed, to "Probably transferring" and then "Kid just wouldn't work hard."

Separately on his "motor," I don't think "Well, everyone has known this since HS" is a response that paints our coaching staff in a great light.
 
The idea that the adult millionaire with total control of the program should be expected to endure some slings and arrows that the college students who bust their behinds for nothing shouldn't has always been very intuitive to me. It seems others don't feel the same way.

But I thought it was more surprising when people reacted as if DJW had already left the program for good when it was crystal clear that he hadn't.

Anyway, the trouble with all of this is, one game sample size, sure, but we really looked to have found something with the rotation in the last game. Now DJW is back and it turns out Tate was sick? That can only confuse the situation.
 

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Are you saying they're comparable?
Well, to avoid an all night back and forth, I don't feel weird and you don't feel weird.
So in that respect, they're comparable. I wouldn't even have any problems with the thread -- if we were 8-9 right now -- I'd understand it completely. But after six games? Even after a bad defeat. It happens. It's not like we got waxed by 45 in the Final Four on national TV.

I'm not going to comment on what others said, maybe some did run down his character although I wouldn't say that from the comments you quoted.
And as for inconsistent motor and our coaching staff, the upside if he gets it all together for DJ is very high which is why the staff - and myself - were happy to get him. Same goes for DaMonte, whose play has brought up the same questions the last two years.
 
The idea that the adult millionaire with total control of the program should be expected to endure some slings and arrows that the college students who bust their behinds for nothing shouldn't has always been very intuitive to me. It seems others don't feel the same way.
This oddity was present during the Weber wars too. I remember specifically Demetri McCamey enduring an insane amount of criticism about his "heart" in defense of Weber's buffoonery. Course some of those arrows came from Weber himself.
 
I wouldn't even have any problems with the thread -- if we were 8-9 right now -- I'd understand it completely. But after six games? Even after a bad defeat. It happens. It's not like we got waxed by 45 in the Final Four on national TV.
I know that thread exists on the board as a release value to keep the fire-the-coach anger out of the other threads, but I think for most of us in there its far more important purpose is more "we don't know how the next few months will go, but clearly there is a possibility we're looking for a new coach come March, and as informed fans we'd like to take a look at what's out there while there's time to really think and talk about it."

If it were up to me there would be a coaching carousel thread on both the basketball and football boards 24/7/365, just because the national coaching scene is interesting and important. But certainly someone who cares about Illinois Basketball ought to be aware of some of the prominent names on the market, even as most of us are hoping we win enough in the meantime to eschew that route.
 

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I know that thread exists on the board as a release value to keep the fire-the-coach anger out of the other threads, but I think for most of us in there its far more important purpose is more "we don't know how the next few months will go, but clearly there is a possibility we're looking for a new coach come March, and as informed fans we'd like to take a look at what's out there while there's time to really think and talk about it."

If it were up to me there would be a coaching carousel thread on both the basketball and football boards 24/7/365, just because the national coaching scene is interesting and important. But certainly someone who cares about Illinois Basketball ought to be aware of some of the prominent names on the market, even as most of us are hoping we win enough in the meantime to eschew that route.
Yeah, I guess I can understand this. Maybe my bad for taking it the wrong way.
I do agree with your first sentence, second paragraph completely.
 
The Transfer Portal
I think for most of us in there its far more important purpose is more "we don't know how the next few months will go, but clearly there is a possibility we're looking for a new coach come March, and as informed fans we'd like to take a look at what's out there while there's time to really think and talk about it."
Also, I think- nearly to a person - everybody that is active in that thread has stated that they like Groce enough to hope that it somehow works out, even if they now view that as less than likely.

I don't know if there just aren't enough fans left to make up two full-on warring factions like at the end of the Weber Era, or if Groce is just such a personable and likable guy that it's not possible for things to get that bad, but IMO it is a remarkably vitriol-free discussion as far as college sports message boards go.
 
I don't know why you continue to denigrate the (potential) value of a 4-year scholarship in this way, especially since many of these kids would not have an opportunity to attend an institution such as this without it. Maybe you're just exaggerating for effect??? (I know, I know, it's a :deadhorse:)
No, you're right. It's not nothing. But it's not the riches the coaches get.

Big time college sports coaches are paid life-altering, trust fund for your grand-kids money and given absolute, dictatorial control of their programs for the express purpose of making wins happen. They collect buyouts usually tantamount to the full value of their contracts if they fail. It's a brutally competitive business that every one of them knew full well going into it.

Because of those things I never have any problem with a college coach bearing the brunt of public criticism. It's correct or its incorrect, but it's never unfair, IMO.
 
Probably no more so than if they'd started a Fire Groce -uh, coaching carousel - thread six games into the season.
That thread is not only a microcosm of a general theme around here it was misnamed. Should have just been "The Clubhouse". At least it soaked up at least a third of the negative echo chamber in some of the other threads.
 
But I thought it was more surprising when people reacted as if DJW had already left the program for good when it was crystal clear that he hadn't.
Let's be honest, the subject line of the thread has since changed and been edited a few times, but when the original one was something like "DJW has transferred" it is difficult for posters to react much differently even though I believe a question mark had been added to that statement. Furthermore, the first post on this thread read:

Andrew Helregel ‏@helregelsports 6m6 minutes ago
Loren Tate, Steve Kelly speculating that DJ Williams has transferred from #illini on pregame show. Not at game nor practice yest. per them.
Even your first posts on this thread, soon after the thread started:

http://www.illinoisloyalty.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=1262627&postcount=4
http://www.illinoisloyalty.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=1262645&postcount=11

... did not exactly scream that it was "crystal clear that he hadn't."

I do agree, however, that despite the justified speculation, some of the comments on DJW were over the top.
 
Kipper may be slotted as a 4 but really is a SG/SF. He can shoot 3's and fade away 2. He is being a good soldier and playing the role that Groce has asked of him. His coordination from footwork to hands are one of the best on the team.
 
I don't know why you continue to denigrate the (potential) value of a 4-year scholarship in this way, especially since many of these kids would not have an opportunity to attend an institution such as this without it. Maybe you're just exaggerating for effect??? (I know, I know, it's a :deadhorse:)
It has value, but it has considerably less value than what they are bringing to the university. Don't be shocked when player stipends continue to grow in the coming years.

Also, it kind of sucks how some of our fan base turned on DJ and Groce from this. They literally said that it was a personal issue, and yet some of you sad angry people started tearing down both of them because of it, assuming the worst for no good reason.
 
Per this, Kipper has all of 15 3's made (14 in HS, 1 in college) in live game action (don't have an aggregator for AAU stats, but not likely he has a large number in AAU and not HS), so I'm really not sure where this firm belief KN is a 3pt shooter is coming from. He appears to be more of a scrapper down low (tweener 3/4), and is certainly not a 2 at the collegiate level -- especially in this scheme.
Read my post correctly, I said he can hit the 3's and not that is he is 3 point shooter. Sean Harrington was a 3 point shooter. Kipper has NBA SG size and since you brought up high school. He often brought up the ball, similar to how Damonte played for Peoria. I would say say that is a good comparison with Kipper being bigger. Both can score in multiple ways including offensive rebounds. Kipper is going to defer shots and his game to Hill, JCL, and others. As the season goes along you will likely see more of his skill set. I've been saying this since last summer.
 
Read my post correctly, I said he can hit the 3's and not that is he is 3 point shooter. Sean Harrington was a 3 point shooter. Kipper has NBA SG size and since you brought up high school. He often brought up the ball, similar to how Damonte played for Peoria. I would say say that is a good comparison with Kipper being bigger. Both can score in multiple ways including offensive rebounds. Kipper is going to defer shots and his game to Hill, JCL, and others. As the season goes along you will likely see more of his skill set. I've been saying this since last summer.
Kipper started his career @ St. Ed's as a freshman PG.
 
Dude, he's made 15 (that I can find evidence of) in his career, you're arguing semantics. There's no sample size that supports that he will consistently take and make 3's for us. 5 or less a season isn't even worth talking about. It's not even something that closed practice spectators have reported on.
It has been reported on before. Groce even said Kipper's 3-pt shooting was better than he thought it would be coming in.

But in a way, arguing about positions is like arguing semantics. Kipper can guard multiple positions, which means he will play multiple positions. He can play the 4 in a 4 guard lineup and play the 3 in a 3 guard lineup. Pretty simple.

Glad to see DJW back.
 
I am very glad to see DJ back, hopefully he watched the game, and it fired him up to want to get back and do anything he can to help the team going forward. I really like the direction things seem to be moving. I hope we can land Smith and another big even if that big is only 6-8 6-9 and athletic. I SO much want to get back to running and dunking and I think we are headed that way.