War Chant has been retired

[Illinois88]

A song with no words was too offensive. Music. Too offensive.

Reasoning goes that the song is not authentic; it did not originate from an actual Native American chant. Since it was made up by two white dudes (the words of what I've read from one anti War Chant person), the chant being their idea of what a Native American war chant is, it pushes a stereotype upon the Native American culture and puts false pretense of that culture in the minds of the students.

 

[KRSAS]

I guess you missed the last year and a half where Whitman became our AD, Lovie Smith is our head coach, and Brad Underwood is now our basketball coach. But I guess if you want to believe in curses...

Yea I saw an undisciplined football team in 2016, taking bad angles and committing stupid personal fouls. That's on the coaching staff to fix. As for BU, he hasn't even proved himself yet. For all we know he could be a BUst in Champaign. When Shaka Smart allegedly turned Illinois down to stay at VCU, I don't know if people realized how much trouble we were really in. Although now, he's not doing too hot at Texas so we probably dodged a bullet there. I'm just saying, I want Illinois to succeed more than anyone else. But at the end of the day, it comes down to wins and losses. I've seen too much of a downward trend at Illinois to be too optimistic. Illinois just doesn't seem to be a lucrative place for athletes to play. So its going to rely much more on the coaches to actually coach and bring out the potential in their athletes. I just don't know if Lovie and BU can bring Illinois back to prominence in the BIG TEN; However, I hope that this year we can be competitive in both big ticket sports.

 

[KRSAS]

We are a society where everyone has rights but no one has any responsibility.


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That is especially true in a university setting.

 

[Deleted member 228346]

Trying to compare this to Spartans or Fighting Irish is ridiculous. No matter how 'authentic' or 'respectful' our rendition is doesn't change the history of the relationship. Let it go.

 

[Deleted member 4333]

Pow Wow the Indian Boy. Yep, there are words.

http://www.televisiontunes.com/Pow_Wow_The_Indian_Boy.html

 

[Illinois88]

Trying to compare this to Spartans or Fighting Irish is ridiculous. No matter how 'authentic' or 'respectful' our rendition is doesn't change the history of the relationship.

No one said history was going to change.

Let it go.

Tell that to both sides. Let's be consistent.

 

[BRucks]

The Singular of 'Alumni' is "Alumnus" So, " . . . . . won't see a dime from this Alumnus".


Of course this PC move may lead to cancelation of donations from many, many, many Alumni , , , , of the Illini.

Are you certain that the poster isn't an alumna?

 

[BRucks]

Look at the number of replies and posts this garnered versus the game thread. To me it's telling how this is only a negative.
Like I said before it may not be effective as a third-down crowd-pleaser, but it was something uniquely Illini. Every time the Big Ten Network or ESPN showed Illinois highlight clips of the crowd in their montages it was always generally the clapping to war chant.

I'm personally disappointed it is going away and to be honest it dampens the excitement for the home opener. Is that silly? Probably, but it was tradition. Like another poster mentioned, what makes Illinois distinct now/gives us our own identity?

The third down thing is a red herring. This ban came to light at a women's kick ball game.

 

[warchant]

Peace out everyone.

 

[ilphotog]

N-G article

The really disturbing thing to me about this article that no one else is talking about is that a DIA official (a State official) approached a group of students (private citizens) at a soccer game (an event open to the public) and told them that the song they were playing was "not allowed."

That is some really creepy [stuff] right there.

I believe the group they spoke with was an official student support group ala Krush, Net Nuts, Spike Squad etc. They have to abide by the rules set forth by DIA or whoever makes the rules. Students who are not members of the support groups or fans in general, I would guess are not covered by this ruling. The Spike Squad got scolded one night for a chant they were doing, the DIA Event Manager walked over and said "No More", they didn't say it again.

 

[WesterveltVictoryCigar]

Honest question, what post season events does Illinois host that were show stoppers and forced our hand?

I'm trying to figure out if we banned the Chief for a once every decade chance to host a weekend of the NCAA tournament. Is there something else that would have been worth it? It's not like we host bowl games.

Or was the "post season ban" just a convenient excuse that the vocal minority used to force U of I's hand.

Illinois hosted the NCAA tennis championships in 2013 and are scheduled to host again in 2022. Baseball hosted an NCAA Super Regional in 2015.

Tennis and volleyball have often hosted first round NCAA tournament weekends in the past.

 

[Hoppy2105]

Illinois hosted the NCAA tennis championships in 2013 and are scheduled to host again in 2022. Baseball hosted an NCAA Super Regional in 2015.

Tennis and volleyball have often hosted first round NCAA tournament weekends in the past.

While it is unfair to those sports, if I were the decision maker back then I would have said "Okay" and kept the Chief. I bet the NCAA would have eventually backed down like they did with Penn St...probably more so if we were good and made them money.

Although, if I made that call, there is also the chance the NCAA would levy some stricter stipulation until the UofI finally caved.

 

[FiveStar]

While it is unfair to those sports, if I were the decision maker back then I would have said "Okay" and kept the Chief. I bet the NCAA would have eventually backed down like they did with Penn St...probably more so if we were good and made them money.

Although, if I made that call, there is also the chance the NCAA would levy some stricter stipulation until the UofI finally caved.

Except there were a handful of other schools already changing mascots and team names. All you'd get is negative publicity about how Illinois is refusing to change its stereotypical Indian mascot.

 

[westvilleillini]

The solution is simple. We change the official university name to Land of Lincoln University since the word Illinois evokes thought of Native Americans*. And change the team name to The Good Neighbors presented by State Farm. Fighting Illini is much too barbaric for this day and age. And we'll be handsomely compensated for the naming rights. Finally, we'll replace the 3 in 1 with the State Farm jingle as a student mascot prances along the sidelines with a big foam Aaron Rodgers head on doing the Discount Double Check dance. With our undying love and loyalty to our university, we'll soon adopt new sacred traditions that will be honored by generations to come!

*BTW, most "Native Americans" call themselves Indians. The term Native American is another PC concoction meant to make the white people who made it feel more culterally sensitive.

 

[Illinir1]

It totally had words!!!

"This is the Indian song
It's only five words long!"

I thought it was "This is the Indian song and it is very, very long!"

The action by the Thought Police to ban this song is a joke and a sad reflection on the University.

 

[Hoppy2105]

Except there were a handful of other schools already changing mascots and team names. All you'd get is negative publicity about how Illinois is refusing to change its stereotypical Indian mascot.

I'd take the bad PR and then launch a major campaign detailing how the university would use the Chief not just for games/heritage/tradition but as a way to enlighten the masses to an entire culture. I'd have organizations set up to honor the tribe(s) that the Chief represents.

There could be scholarships and foundations meant to help existing tribes/aspiring American Indian students.

I'd make the Chief such an admiral and beneficial thing that those calling for it to be removed would look bad since they want to take away such a great thing and all the awareness and public service that would go along with it.

What I wouldn't have done was caved to a vocal minority over a year of bad press. And it would have only been a year (2 tops), especially if everything I listed above was done.

But oh well...that's not what happened.

 

[Deleted member 4333]

I'd take the bad PR and then launch a major campaign detailing how the university would use the Chief not just for games/heritage/tradition but as a way to enlighten the masses to an entire culture. I'd have organizations set up to honor the tribe(s) that the Chief represents.

There could be scholarships and foundations meant to help existing tribes/aspiring American Indian students.

I'd make the Chief such an admiral and beneficial thing that those calling for it to be removed would look bad since they want to take away such a great thing and all the awareness and public service that would go along with it.

What I wouldn't have done was caved to a vocal minority over a year of bad press. And it would have only been a year (2 tops), especially if everything I listed above was done.

But oh well...that's not what happened.

I'm not sure that the American Indians ever had a navy, but maybe.

 

[FiveStar]

I'd take the bad PR and then launch a major campaign detailing how the university would use the Chief not just for games/heritage/tradition but as a way to enlighten the masses to an entire culture. I'd have organizations set up to honor the tribe(s) that the Chief represents.

There could be scholarships and foundations meant to help existing tribes/aspiring American Indian students.

I'd make the Chief such an admiral and beneficial thing that those calling for it to be removed would look bad since they want to take away such a great thing and all the awareness and public service that would go along with it.

What I wouldn't have done was caved to a vocal minority over a year of bad press. And it would have only been a year (2 tops), especially if everything I listed above was done.

But oh well...that's not what happened.

Bad PR on race issues turns you into Missouri.

 

[icengineer]

I'm not sure that the American Indians ever had a navy, but maybe.

In the Navy we call them Admiral, kind sir. Sort of like God and god.

 

[Lovethechief78]

I respect that there are varying opinions on this move. I have had enough. DONE. .and just a few short years ago I was buying season football tickets, using one and selling cheap/giving away the rest because I LIVE IN WASHINGTON STATE. Yes, you could say I'm a big Illini fan.

A fellow UI friend has started a twitter hashtag: #NoWarChantNoTickets

Again, I know others on here will say unkind things about me. Fine. I just remember my late dad many times saying to me: "Vote with your pocketbook." I most certainly will.

 

[Hoppy2105]

Bad PR on race issues turns you into Missouri.

From what I can tell, the calling card for the anti-Chief movement was that the university was misrepresenting the Indian culture, not that the Chief was a racist symbol.

Now, I know that wouldn't stop some people from saying it's racist, but if a logical person dug deep down into the issue, they could see that Chief was not a characature. Nor was he just some goofy dressed up kid running around singing sweet Caroline with the band. The Chief was a symbol of something powerful and worth representing.

Having said that, I've heard the Chief made appearances a few times at random events where he did act more mascot than symbol. They were rare and stopped back in the 90s. (All 2nd hand info, I'd never heard of those events until coming on here) So those events would have to be gone and it seemed like they were.

Anyway, back to the racism thing, I don't think Illinois fans/the administration thought the Illiniwek/Peoria tribes were/are racially inferior (basic definition of racism) so the racism thing wouldn't hold water if we had gone down a different path in the mid-2000s.

 

[SycIllini]

Reasoning goes that the song is not authentic; it did not originate from an actual Native American chant. Since it was made up by two white dudes (the words of what I've read from one anti War Chant person), the chant being their idea of what a Native American war chant is, it pushes a stereotype upon the Native American culture and puts false pretense of that culture in the minds of the students.

To me this makes the reasoning worse for retiring it. If it was never authentic to begin with and only made up for the school's athletic contests then it could only be offensive to the uniiversity/students/alumni/fans if used by someone else to mimic the UofI.

If it had been derived from an authentic Native American warchant then the idea that it promotes an unfavorable view of Native American culture or stereotype would be stronger in my opinion.

 

[WesterveltVictoryCigar]

While it is unfair to those sports, if I were the decision maker back then I would have said "Okay" and kept the Chief. I bet the NCAA would have eventually backed down like they did with Penn St...probably more so if we were good and made them money.

Although, if I made that call, there is also the chance the NCAA would levy some stricter stipulation until the UofI finally caved.

There were rumors of football bowl bans and other more onerous impacts coming down the road. It was inevitable at that point so you probably should just move on.

 

[FiveStar]

These are the 4 things everyone points to. 2 here, 2 gone. Right in the middle. Reality suggests that the ability to see a bigger picture view helps one understand an entire issue.

Chief gone.
War chant gone.
3 in 1 still there.
Fighting Illini name still there.

Also, you can talk about this being a modern phenomenon but the compromise quote is generally attributed to Henry Clay, former rep and senator, whose prime was about 200 years ago. The problem is in modern times people on both sides of an issue generally lock themselves in their corners and never venture out. People don't talk anymore. Or if they do talk, they don't listen. Just because you or I feel one way doesn't mean it's impossible for someone else to feel another. It's okay to have perspective.

For the record, I didn't really care about the chief either way, nor do I care about this either way. I like sports for sports. I just want good people, who are good players, on good teams. All the other stuff is secondary.

Edit: As an add on, I always see people referring to the vocal minority. Just because they're in the minority doesn't mean they're wrong. See, United States of America vs Britain around the 1770s for reference.

 

[MoCoMdIllini]

https://i.imgur.com/YvfPx6S.png

Each one unique and oh so special.

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