They haven't suited up yet. They have NOTHING to do with this year, last year, or the three years before that. Try again.
Wisconsin 57, Illinois 43 POSTGAME
They haven't suited up yet. They have NOTHING to do with this year, last year, or the three years before that. Try again.
So your position is that since UW is the superior team, a loss doesn't mean that Groce was out coached?
1) Failed to make adjustments, like subbing in players who would box out?
2) Failed to draw up in bounds plays to generate open looks?
3) Failed to have the players ready at the start of the game?
Game plan of the superior coach:
1) If we take care of the ball and run our offensive sets, they will give us open looks.
2) They can not keep us off the offensive boards and can't punish us when we send extra rebounders to the glass, lets continue to do that.
3) They will take bad shots if we stay in front of them on defense, so stay in front of them.
UW had us scouted well, they had the better hand coming into the game and they played it accordingly.
64% was a massive outlier, and most people pointed that out during that UM game.
You do know that Chicago, is also in Illinois, right?
27.5% is closer to that average than 64%.
I hate these games where I turn on the game a little late, get comfortable and then notice the score is 16-2.
A little basketball strategy hint here... When you're trying to cut into a double digit deficit, going 12 minutes without making a field goal is a bad idea.
This is the first game this year that I can remember where the announcer (Crispin?) was pretty critical of Groce. He didn't call him out by name, but kept saying things that made it obvious that he thought the team should be playing better than it was.
It's really frustrating to see Illinois high school guys like Happ, the two guys at Nebraska, and - of course - Jalen Brunson having such great years.
A little basketball strategy hint here... When you're trying to cut into a double digit deficit, going 12 minutes without making a field goal is a bad idea.
This is the first game this year that I can remember where the announcer (Crispin?) was pretty critical of Groce. He didn't call him out by name, but kept saying things that made it obvious that he thought the team should be playing better than it was.
It's really frustrating to see Illinois high school guys like Happ, the two guys at Nebraska, and - of course - Jalen Brunson having such great years.
peace davids
- Colorado
Coming into tonight, we were shooting 47.1% in conference games at home (41.9% from three). After tonight, we are down to 43.1% (37.9% from three). Not enough stats to show definitively, but if UM were an outlier, then tonight brought us back to where we probably should be.
In Groce's 5 years at UI, our overall season shooting percentages have been 41.1%, 41.1%, 41.3%, 43.2%, and this year, 46.5% (so far). I would wager that we are going to see a bit more on the low end to close out the conference season.
I know that Groce isn't Izzo - but just for comparison sake, Michigan State's FG% over that same timeframe is 45.9%, 47.3%, 46.5%, 48.8%, and 47.5%.
Isn't that what we should be striving for? A coach that puts his players in a position to score the ball at a high percentage? I just don't see where Groce does this effectively.
It's just not that simple. I can certainly agree that if we scored more points than them, we would have won, but you can't just hypothetically change things like FG% in a vacuum, and it's definitely not appropriate to blame players for not making enough low percentage shots to win. The scheme continues to fail them.
peace davids
- Colorado
But Wisconsin averages 46.3% on the road during the conference season. So they underachieved as well! You can't adjust our shooting percentage to our average without adjusting theirs too.
See peace davids post above, but I really feel your concept of an open jumper is (A) a little liberal and (B) not accounting for how bad some of the shots are (15 footers make me want to tear my hair out) to reach a count of 20 open jumpers.
peace davids
- Colorado
The reality of the situation is, when 20 open jumpers don't fall on a regular basis, the coach loses his gig.
When 10 open jumpers don't fall, the coach better figure out a different way to score the ball, and get his players in position to do that. You can't just shrug your shoulders and hope that your players miraculously start knocking them down when the game is on the line. This strategy has been piling up losses at a rapid rate.
Right, if this wasn't a theme/staple of this regime and this game was instead an actual fluke/outlier performance, we'd have been much better over the last 4 years and all probably be much happier with the state of our program.
WI missed numerous open 3s. They were three made 3s away from beating us by 23.
I cannot stand Groce but I thought the play was just awful, save for about 5 minutes. Lucas and Hill were both atrocious. Lucas could not get out of his own way. The rebounding was pathetic, no energy even in the first half. Ridiculous start to the game literally no defense on the floor. Game was over, again at the first timeout. Jacking up shot after shot (clearly the game plan, take more shots and hope some drop). We scored 7 points in the last 11 minutes. I loved Malcolm the past 3 years but he is a ballhoggy shell. I really admire the player Morgan has become on offense but he cant rebound, cant defend. Sad for Tracy and Tate not having better careers. But bottom line I am not going to miss any of these seniors next year.They bring no team-ness or energy when it is really needed. Give me a nucleus of Black, Nichols, JCL and Finke as your 6th man. Everything else is up for grabs. Reset the button with a new coach and see what these guys can really produce along with Jordan, DJW and the freshman who come. Goodbye and good luck seniors, thanks for everything. Good riddance coaches, you were literally out of your league, may toughness and togetherness carry you far. Far away. I will still root for them in the NIT but my goodness I cant wait for this to end.
Crowd seemed hyped which I thought was great.
Also Wisconsin is not that good. They pass well but I thought our horrid offense had plenty of shots. Badgers will not make the sweet 16.
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I agree with you that if we make an additional 8 jumpers throughout the game the outcome *could* be different.
The problem I have is that while watching a game like this I am unfortunately confident that had we made those 8 extra jumpers the Wisconsin coaches would've adjusted and we'd still lose by a similar margin.
We frustrated them with that zone in the first half, but then they had some open looks on kickouts.
We closed the gap to 6 in the second half, and had Wisky clearly frustrated until Groce bailed them out with a timeout after they made a 3. Not only did he downgrade our lineup after that timeout he gave them a chance to regroup.
Deleted member 46511
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I think you mean laddership.
PhillyIllini
- Los Angeles
Bottom line is John Groce is 32-50 (sub .400) in B1G play since taking over the ILL job and the team has regressed each season. There's one constant in this program over the past 4.5 years and it's the individual you're apologizing for. I'm sorry if you can't blatantly see that this team needs a new coach and the discussion from the "pitchfork mafia" which follows in post-game threads is the byproduct of that which is so obvious to the rest of us. Burn it all down -- I don't care if we lose Tilmon or whoever -- I'm not going to stand for mediocrity at ILL.
Unfortunately, I think you are one of a very select few who have a favorable opinion of John Groce, my friend.
I think the consensus here is tired of the should, could, would, and if's. We, or at least I, want results, not excuses. This incoming recruiting class is not going to add on 10 extra wins to next year's total and there really isn't any redeeming quality for Coach Groce. There is the record number of 20 point losses, the downward trend of wins each season, the sub .400 win percentage in conference play, etc.
We all bleed orange and blue on this thread. We all drink the Kool aid too but this batch someone forgot the sugar because it is just nasty and undrinkable.
So whose fault was the Winthrop game? WVU? Indiana? Penn State? You have a mix of games against lesser talent we should have won and games against superior talent that we couldn't even sniff their jock straps before we were down by 20 in the first half. Our program is a joke right now. The ONLY reason Groce is still in seat is because of Tilmon. Period.
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This is the key. The Groce offense is built on being able to consistently make a shot that is being phased out due to it's risk/reward ratio. For a guy who is supposedly so driven by numbers and stats I cannot figure out why we take so many "long" 2-point shots.
Deleted member 8632
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Mediocrity would be an upgrade.
Another disappointing loss, but a deserved one against a good team. Games against Wisky only accentuate the frustration of being an Illinois fan. Wisky is the model of what a college program should look like. They have a system they recruit to and don't deviate from that. Illinois seems to lack direction. Groce's coaching history suggests he's been places that have programs similar to Wisky. Programs that have enjoyed sustained success. Maybe the model he chose was Ohio State. They recruit with the big guys and have enjoyed success ( except for this year). Their system has been successful with big talent. If the high level players aren't there they can't hang with the elites. Butler knows who they are. They don't spend a lot of time chasing pipe dream recruits. They absolutely recruit to their system. When you know who you are it makes your job easier. I have to believe that enhances your chances for success.