Lou also took over a complete sh!tshow of a program. Groce took over a team with talent to qualify for the NCAA Tourney in year one but hasn't been able to get Illinois back since (with a field of 68!).
Wisconsin 57, Illinois 43 POSTGAME
I wasn't really comparing but more to the point it was a different world then. You and I know Lou would not have survived today. I think Groce's shelf life is expired but the modern day environment isn't totally realistic.
That team had gone 6-12 the year before and had just lost its most talented player to the NBA lottery (Leornard). It was not only Bruce Weber, even after his removal, Illinois was not projected to make the NCAA tournament. Groce did overachieve in his first season, that much is true, it is revisionist history to think otherwise.
The program (personnel-wise) was not in good shape either as mentioned in previous posts. Every new coach would have to replace ONE (senior) class (2009 class for UI), but Groce also had to replace the 2010 class (all washed out before Groce), the 2012 class (empty), and half of the 2011 class that had players that clearly did not belong at that level (Ibby, Langford, Shaw). That is 3.5 classes, not an easy task.
It was a dire situation, yet that does not excuse Groce for having failed in his overall tenure at UI. In year 5, the program should have been much further ahead.
In the 64-team era, Lou probably makes the tournament in year 4 and definitely does in year 5.
Also, I know I have heard this story a million times before, but explain to me again what the heck happened after we beat Magic Johnson in '79?
It's a short leash these days. 3.5 classes and several quality misses.
Several on here were ready to pull the plug after the first loss to Maryland. I'm not sure a middle of the pack finish and a bubble spot burst was good enough.
That's not going to happen now but it maybe shows unrealistic expectations.
Weber's fall was from way higher. I had way to much vitriol for Weber as a coach. Totally misplaced. It takes talent to survive the BIG. Both failed with their own players. Weber's leash much longer.
I was in high school in '79, television signal was crap and the Don Eddy teams at EIU were great to watch in person. Man things have changed.
To the pre 64 team era. Parity didn't exist in those days. Now EIU gets an auto if they're that good. (yes, I know they were Div11 then) Both tourney sizes required top 1/2 in conference.
We lost to Ohio St the next game, so didn't even get to be voted #1. Then our one and only PG on the team hurt his knee so we had to use Mark Smith as a "point forward". Didn't even make the NIT.
I think Groce's two biggest accomplishments have been overachieving in year 1 and not allowing the program to drop to a complete embarrassment from years 2-3. I think his biggest failures have been an offensive and defensive philosophy that makes it more difficult to win. His inability to land a PG in years 1-4. The transfers that helped him had a counter party that hurt him in the future (Wasting two years on Paul, Cosby, Oregon St PG?). Thorne was a great pick up at the time but injuries has kept him from what he was the first month of last season.
Oregon St. PG? Why I believe that would be Ahmad Starks. NCAA didn't clear him for immediate play, so yes that was two years without one being playable.
Good points obe, unfortunately it looks like JG is going to get the blame
Thorne used up 2 years of scholarship to get about .5 years of productivity at best. Abrams used up 6 years of scholarship to get 3.5 years of production. Colbert used up 1 to get basically nothing. Jordan and DJW have used 4 years of scholarships. Finke had a sit out year. Tate probably had 4 years of the least output in the history of Illini BB.
That's a lot of scholarships on top of Paul, Cosby and Starks, without a lot of benefit.
Why do I get the feeling I'll one day be saying that same thing to a younger generation?
I stand corrected. We were in the NIT in 1980, but not 1979.
Gamefan49
- Westville, Illinois
This! Why take out the players that got you there!!! Again unfathomable substitutions!
I think calling year one overachieving is an exaggeration. He inherited some athletic upper class players that could play a little bit. Without a key injury to Minnesota's big guy, Illinois probably doesn't make the tournament.