Xavier 83, Illinois 74 POSTGAME

#76
The challenge of teaching this defense is to get kids to put hands in passing lanes and not their bodies so they can see man and ball still. We get our bodies in lanes and/or just flat out turn our heads to watch the ball and as soon as our guy does that they cut back door and we don’t even know they are gone. Junior high players figure it out surely these guys could......
 
#79
What I don’t understand is BU made defensive adjustments his one year at OSU when things weren’t working, I don’t understand why not now
At OSU he had a core - mature + talent (just enough perhaps).

Here his core - the talent - is too young. On the flip side his mature players are not as talented. BU's goal - as far as I understand it - is to become mature enough by B10. Which is essentially, next week.
 
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#81
Future Illini class of 2028!
Savoy, IL
The high pressure is causing us to be burned by the dribble drive...thus leaving us to depend on help defenders...the problem is the way college basketball is officated now, they are killing us on touch fouls because we cant stay infront of players. I just don't know if the high pressure in your face D is working.





I’ve never hated a defensive philosophy more than I hate Underwood’s. It’s fatally flawed at this level.

Even if he had the perfect personnel executing it perfectly, it is never going to result in consistent winning at the highest level. The best you can hope for us a program like West Virginia. Sure... better than we’ve been for the past decade but nowhere near the ceiling that our program has been proven to have.

If Underwood doesn’t adjust, he will not be here long. You can’t win games giving up 80+ ppg and letting opponents shoot 56% fg%.

It’s asinine.

These kids deserve a more intelligent scheme. They’re being run ragged only to get embarrassed.

Asinine.
 
#82
I have said for 2 years, Kipper seems like a good team-mate, fun loving kid (giorgi and him) who seems to be having a good time. There is a reason though that he was originally to go to Tulane...he is not that athletic as many have thought. He played alot of perimeter in high school, and is simply over matched against bigger/stronger guys, and slower less aggressive against smaller ones.

Kipper should be getting approx 10 minutes a game, switching out for Giorgi/Jones/Williams/Griffin imo, we are woefully over matched again this year, and if we are to keep January and PROVE to future recruits and current talent that we are on the way back, this is the way it should be.
 
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#83
I know coach likes for his players to play fast, but maybe it's a little too fast at times. I would like to see the offense mix it up with more set plays, but not not lobs to the basket for 6'0" point guards. Agree that the defense gives up too many easy baskets. Need to work hard in perfecting their help defense. Teams with more length will be a defensive challenge all season.
 
#84
Here we go with the transitive property wins. What about Georgetown?

We...Were...Down...15...In...The....Second...Half....toa team predicted to win 15 games——in the 7th Place Game....
Without Frazier? I am not saying it is a 1 to 1 comparison. Xavier is good enough to beat anybody any given night. Whether they win only 15 games this year or not we shall see.
 
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#85
Even if he had the perfect personnel executing it perfectly, it is never going to result in consistent winning at the highest level. The best you can hope for us a program like West Virginia. Sure... better than we’ve been for the past decade but nowhere near the ceiling that our program has been proven to have.
West Virginia has been pretty awesome under Huggins. His tenure there would compare very favorably to Lou Henson's here, for instance. And they've really only been doing full-on "Press Virginia" the way Underwood is trying the last four years and they've gone to 3 Sweet Sixteens. It's been very successful.

But anyway, it's not that we don't have the perfect personnel, it's that we're not even close to having the right personnel.

How bad must Samba Kane be if he can't get on the floor? We're desperate for his sort of presence.

You can see what the message is from opposing coaches, to keep the ball moving quickly on offense, and when our over-pursuit leaves somebody open, be aggressive, Illinois might take a charge but they aren't going to block the shot. We're imposing a trade (turnovers and charges in exchange for fouls and layups and wide open 3's) that opposing teams are readily accepting and it's working for them. That tells you it's time to tweak some things. West Virginia can challenge you at the rim in a scramble drill scenario. We can't.
 
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#86
Our defense is our Achilles heel and will prevent any positive movement forward this year if we continue to pressure 30 feet from the basket....After watching most of the games at Maui I saw many different defenses but the majority of teams played 3 feet off their man until reaching the 3 point line...Is that considered a pack line defense ? If it is then i vote for that as we don't have the backcourt to stop the dribble drive plays that attack the basket after beating the pressure D and our help D down low is non existent....

We have better talent and chemistry this year but the tougher schedule means something has to change on our D or we won't be seeing any post season again this year at all...

Kipper looks as lost as any player I have followed in the past 20 years ......Glad BU started Alan G. and hope he continues this course of action as I would rather see AG on the court learning after his mistakes and Kipper has had enough time on the court to not be making the mistakes he is making....

Looks like it's going to be a long season but any streak starts with the first win and the effort we had against Gonzaga still instills hope for me in the Illini...

JMHO
 
#87
Curiosity got me, so I looked at Xavier’s freshman class this year and it consists of 3, 3 stars (8th in BE) and only 1! (Kennedy) played vs us. They lost the majority of their team from last year and likely consider this a re-build year. Somehow they made us look a notch below. They now have the #2 2019 class in the BE and 17th nationally, quick talent reload! Oh and btw, Travis Steele was just named HC 8 months ago!

Georgetown starts 2 of their 3rd ranked BE & 31st ranked class with the 3rd contributing heavily off the bench. Their 4th member of the class a 3* 6’8 kid dnp vs us. Big Pat so far struggling with 2019 class.

We had a high number class, which on paper and adding in Adonis and Feliz is much stronger than Xavier’s and stronger than Big Pats. Now, Tevian, Kane, Higgs have made no impact this year (hoping Tev changes that). Our class is still getting major contributions from Ayo, GB, AF, and an 85% healthy AD. We all know where we sit for 2019!

Is our problem the lack of talent/balance to go with the 4 new contributors? Is the fact the skill sets of the 3 non contributors Kane, Higgs, Tev. diminishing the impact of the contributors as GB being the only size + athleticism contributor. Did Spicey, Black, Funke leaving really catch BU off guard? Is this a true sign that spring signees are spring signees for a reason?
 
#88
Lol at half this thread being about Bill Walton. Changes need to be made on defense. We give up wayyyyy to many easy baskets. I believe Gonzaga shot 20 less times than us, and they beat us. It’s because those shots are easy looks cause of the defense. I get we force turnovers, but if you don’t score on the turnovers, the other team is getting easy baskets because of overplaying. Sad to see
Don’t think the tired card works Gonzaga played in same game we did and beat Duke yesterday. Xavier was a game we needed to win they are not as good as last few years could possibly miss the tourney very winnable game for us. ISU without 4 of top 8 including their best player. Saw some good things but not enough to win games. We have to figure out a way to defend besides the turnovers we create. Teams get wide open looks and layups every game. We have to play almost perfect offensive basketball if we are going to allow 50% plus shooting every night. It just is not a number we can win with until opponents FG% goes down wins are going to be scarce
Isn’t the point of defense to force the other team to take shots that they’re not comfortable with , creating a low percentage? That’s obviously not happening now.
Could defensive looks be switched up to make the opponent uncomfortable?
The other teams are adapting pretty quickly. Another downside is rebounding. Already undersized, the scrambling has everyone out of position. I don’t see that changing.
 
#89
What I don’t understand is BU made defensive adjustments his one year at OSU when things weren’t working, I don’t understand why not now. i get that he might be thinking he is here for the long term and wants to build a culture and if he gives in and changed then he never will have kids work hard enough to play his style because there is the option to back off. But he needs to win now for recruiting purposes and quite frankly his job security more than likely. I am a BU fan and like his style but we also need to win games while he implements his system. IMO these kids don’t play much defense in AAU and high school and now they are trying to play the most intense difficult style there is against the best in the country. Keep teaching it but also don’t sacrifice games.
It took him half the year the to make adjustments at osu. They turned their season around once he abandoned the pressure and went pack line.
 
#90
Isn’t the point of defense to force the other team to take shots that they’re not comfortable with , creating a low percentage?
Not really. The point is to not let teams be comfortable running their offense and to speed them up and take them out of their game. And we do. But because all that ball pressure is always going to result in a lot of guys driving to the rim against a stretched-out defense, you need to have the ability to contest stuff at the rim without fouling. We don't have that.

It took him half the year the to make adjustments at osu. They turned their season around once he abandoned the pressure and went pack line.
It wasn't pack line at all (which is a whole different defensive philosophy) and still involved a lot of trapping and ball pressure, just more selectively and not as high up the court. Kinda Bruce Weber-ish.
 
#91
Not a big fan of the young excuse ISU pounded us playing for 4 freshman and four of top 8 out. College basketball is a young players game. We can't even be sure Dosonmu will be here in a couple more years if he develops. Also with the high number of transfers in todays game you never know from year to year what you will have. Kipper Nichols needs to step up going into the season he was one of the players we were really leaning on for production and leadership as a upper classman and so far he has been poor. Basketball is a long season just have to hope we show some progress defensively as season goes on and we may be able to upset some people at home. Road wins are going to be hard to get with this group. Just not enough experience, size and talent yet but there is some hope for the future if Underwood can keep this group together.
 
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#93
We w
If we still had John Groce, we would basically have Mizery's starting lineup - Tilmon, Pickett and Smith. Don't think I would trade.
Instead we have a nice bunch of Freshmen and Sophomores who are just learning the ropes, and on which we can build. We scared the crap out of No. 3 Gonzaga despite having very little experience on the court.
With only 4 returners and being only 5 games into the season, not sure how much proof we have one way or the other yet how this team is going to pan out ,so not sure what you expect.[/QUOTE We would probably be better today with Groce but we know that our potential was making the NCAA tourney occasionally. We brought Underwood in to raise that potential. Whether he does is yet to be determined. Based on available evidence, I am unsure.
 
#94
With defense like ours, there is no hope, sadly. In order for buckets to be meaningful, you have to have stops, and an occasional rebound when they shoot it from outside and miss. I put that debacle solely on Underwood.

We need new hashtags
#wewillwin
#againstRutgers
#maybe
#maybenot
#whocares?
 
#95
With defense like ours, there is no hope, sadly. In order for buckets to be meaningful, you have to have stops, and an occasional rebound when they shoot it from outside and miss. I put that debacle solely on Underwood.

We need new hashtags
#wewillwin
#againstRutgers
#maybe
#maybenot
#whocares?
Who would have thought Underwood would be approaching Lovie territory so quickly? Both ironically due to incredibly inept defenses.
 
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#96
Everyone that is suggesting we switch defenses, he did that a bunch of times last night and it did absolutely nothing. I was one screaming for zone against Georgetown but now I see that some of these guys just aren’t playing defense, they can’t keep a man in front of them. I think they will get a lot better and there is so much youth on this team. Strap on your seatbelt, it’s going to be a bumpy ride.
 
#97
Position less basketball sounds good until you have to defend someone. Have to have some length and size to defend at some point and Illinois lacks both. Nichols playing so poor has really hurt them early in the season need his size and strength.
 
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#98
North Bethesda, Maryland
The phrase gets old very quickly, but “wait until next year” may actually have some real meaning if we keep what we have, Samba comes along, and we add someone with size and/or athleticism to go with January. I didn’t know it would happen this quickly, but I am already at the point where I’m looking for growth and competitiveness, rather than thinking of a record.
 
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#99
Without Frazier? I am not saying it is a 1 to 1 comparison. Xavier is good enough to beat anybody any given night. Whether they win only 15 games this year or not we shall see.
Frank, you are obviously a loyal fan, but it’s okay if you don’t find a rebuttal for every post you feel diminishes the teams status.
 
The phrase gets old very quickly, but “wait until next year” may actually have some real meaning if we keep what we have, Samba comes along, and we add someone with size and/or athleticism to go with January. I didn’t know it would happen this quickly, but I am already at the point where I’m looking for growth and competitiveness, rather than thinking of a record.
When we looked at the schedule early on, I think most of us realistically saw a high probability of going 0-3 in Maui. Losing at home to G-Town (minus Trent) hurts. But after 12 hours have passed now, and I've been able to look at it a little more objectively, how many teams with this many new guys, many boarder line 3/4 Star freshman are going to have a lot of early success in College B-Ball, esp. in the tournament we just played in?

Give it time, as Trent said, stick with them (which I know most all will), it's going to come together and we're all going to appreciate it that much more when it finally does! IMO, most important thing from this season is BU doesn't lose the locker room, has to keep these guys believing and here for the long haul.