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Old Feb 12, 2017, 05:39 PM   #5351
peace davids
Location: Colorado
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeKrus28 View Post
Always nice when the arch rival is sucking it up after their expectations were sky high. But, I do love Tom Crean's brutal honesty compared to our coach. First time I heard one of Crean's press conference and he took accountability that it ultimately falls on him. When has Groce ever done that? Does anyone even re-count a time he held himself responsible for his team's failures?
When Groce takes responsibility in a press conference, it is almost always followed up by a "but".

It's my fault, but the guys gotta make shots. It falls on me, but Malcolm and Tracy need to step up and play like seniors. Blah Blah Blah.
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Old Feb 12, 2017, 05:45 PM   #5352
MrOizo
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Location: Chicago
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeKrus28 View Post
Always nice when the arch rival is sucking it up after their expectations were sky high. But, I do love Tom Crean's brutal honesty compared to our coach. First time I heard one of Crean's press conference and he took accountability that it ultimately falls on him. When has Groce ever done that? Does anyone even re-count a time he held himself responsible for his team's failures?
I was listening a bit after a recent game and Groce was saying to hold him accountable, he has thick skin and can take it. Said we should all simply be rooting for these players who are giving their all. He said all the right things.
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Old Feb 12, 2017, 06:04 PM   #5353
The Pontiff
Location: Chicago, IL
Quote:
Originally Posted by LurkLongandProsper View Post
I don't envy any coach who has to take over at any of those posts for that reason, fans will naturally compare to a predecessor. But my point was never to say Cuonzo wasn't successful at his stops, simply that the claim that he is a program-builder or upgraded the programs isn't clearly supported by the achievements he's had compared to predecessors. He's done a solid job at all of those posts, but we haven't really seen him elevate a program.

That said, Illinois would easily be the worst job he'll have taken relative to conference peers at the time of his arrival, so I guess we'd see how that would play out should he come here.
Very true and I agree with your overall assessment. However, I do think we should be careful in utilizing "achievements" to define an era. For instance, Weber took Illinois to the championship game, an achievement that was not even remotely approached by his predecessor. However, seeing how things ended for Weber, no sane person would say he upgraded the Illinois program over Self. By the end of the Weber era, it was clear that the Illinois trajectory was going the wrong way.

With Martin, I do think you have a point, in that he didn't take Tennessee to new levels beyond Pearl and it's arguable that Tennessee's issues during Pearl's last season were of the non-basketball variety (which bled over to the basketball results), meaning he wasn't going to be fired for performance if he hadn't lied. So like Groce did his first year, Martin wasn't facing a basketball rebuilding job so much as just putting the Pearl fiasco behind them. Now with Cal, the jury's still out as Montgomery was fairly mediocre there and it would only take a S16 to out-achieve him.
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Old Feb 12, 2017, 06:18 PM   #5354
FiveStar
Location: Austin
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pontiff View Post
By the way, if measuring the success of a coach is whether he achieves something the preceding coach didn't, then good luck to those coaches taking over for Coach K, Roy Williams, Bill Self, etc. By this measure, Michael White is probably screwed at Florida, and Sean Miller has a long way to go to upgrade Arizona.
Never wanna be the guy who follows the guy. Hardly ever works out well. Luckily for us we won't have that problem.
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Old Feb 12, 2017, 06:30 PM   #5355
CARPET
Quote:
Originally Posted by peace davids View Post
When Groce takes responsibility in a press conference, it is almost always followed up by a "but".
The Word BUT is used to introduce something contrasting that has always been metioned.

Thanks fror your post- Respect
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Old Feb 12, 2017, 07:21 PM   #5356
SescIllini
When a program is losing everything starts to look bad. But lets not jump on Groce for the pressers. For the most part he defended his players and assumed the blame. As an alumnus he always talked highly of the university and represented the program well for the most part. There is a disconnect from what he sees and the results. He will pay the price for the wins/losses and X/Os, but it was not for a lack of effort.

On to the next coach.
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Old Feb 12, 2017, 07:32 PM   #5357
Illini4Reel
Location: Champaign, IL.
#Illini fans...regarding Cuonzo Martin, citing a well -connected source today that he will be interested and taking #mizzou job over ������
@takhtehchianmd

Idk how connected he is tho
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Old Feb 12, 2017, 07:50 PM   #5358
PlayAZ
Martin to Mizzou, would be about the worst thing for the ILLINI that could happen in regards to home base recruiting being affected...Martin will own St. Louis if he is at Mizzou.
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Old Feb 12, 2017, 07:59 PM   #5359
BananaShampoo
Captain 'Paign
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
Not sure why he'd take that job over the Illini if JW offered him. Illini are in much better shape, not much difference in distance to St. Louis, and Illini in a far better conference (with better facilities) than the crappy SEC.

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Old Feb 12, 2017, 08:01 PM   #5360
MrOizo
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Location: Chicago
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrangeKrus28 View Post
That was in response to people booing and saying harsh things at the games. That had nothing to do with him holding himself accountable for his team's poor performances and failures of his program. The 2 are completely separate things altogether.
Certainly could be, I was giving him the benefit of the doubt here. I wouldn't doubt that he blames himself - if only because it's clear as day who owns this mess...
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Old Feb 12, 2017, 08:06 PM   #5361
Kajagoogoo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illini4Reel View Post
#Illini fans...regarding Cuonzo Martin, citing a well -connected source today that he will be interested and taking #mizzou job over ������
@takhtehchianmd

Idk how connected he is tho
I'll believe that when I see it. If he goes to Mizzou, it's because IL didn't offer.
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Old Feb 12, 2017, 08:07 PM   #5362
LurkLongandProsper
Location: C-U
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illini4Reel View Post
#Illini fans...regarding Cuonzo Martin, citing a well -connected source today that he will be interested and taking #mizzou job over ������
@takhtehchianmd

Idk how connected he is tho
Yeah, that guy is not worthwhile as a source.
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Old Feb 12, 2017, 08:10 PM   #5363
Lucy727
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Location: Des Plaines, Il
If Clappy gets fired, do you think Indiana would go after Cuonzo?

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Old Feb 12, 2017, 08:14 PM   #5364
MadSeason
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucy727 View Post
If Clappy gets fired, do you think Indiana would go after Cuonzo?
I would bet Marshall would be #1 on their list. I think they will shoot for bigger name than Cuonzo
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Old Feb 12, 2017, 08:17 PM   #5365
MadSeason
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illini4Reel View Post
#Illini fans...regarding Cuonzo Martin, citing a well -connected source today that he will be interested and taking #mizzou job over ������
@takhtehchianmd

Idk how connected he is tho
If it is between the two I would think Illinois would win based on roster and incoming classes alone.

Mezzo has bad roster and one 3 star coming in
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Old Feb 12, 2017, 08:42 PM   #5366
illynifan34
That's a winner!!
Location: OH
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadSeason View Post
If it is between the two I would think Illinois would win based on roster and incoming classes alone.

Mezzo has bad roster and one 3 star coming in
If he goes to Mizzou though half of our class will follow him.
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Old Feb 12, 2017, 08:52 PM   #5367
IlliniCyborg
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Location: Edwardsville, IL
Quote:
Originally Posted by illynifan34 View Post
If he goes to Mizzou though half of our class will follow him.
It is also much easier to finish in the top 3 or 4 of the SEC than the BIG.
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Old Feb 12, 2017, 09:02 PM   #5368
blmillini
Banned
Location: Bloomington, IL
Quote:
Originally Posted by illynifan34 View Post
If he goes to Mizzou though half of our class will follow him.
Doubt it
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Old Feb 12, 2017, 09:07 PM   #5369
LurkLongandProsper
Location: C-U
Quote:
Originally Posted by illynifan34 View Post
If he goes to Mizzou though half of our class will follow him.
He hasn't even offered half our class. There are things to worry about if he goes to Mizzou, that is not one of them.
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Old Feb 12, 2017, 11:47 PM   #5370
Tevo
Location: Wilmette, IL
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayAZ View Post
Martin to Mizzou, would be about the worst thing for the ILLINI that could happen in regards to home base recruiting being affected...Martin will own St. Louis if he is at Mizzou.
Considering Martin's clear inability to make programs much better than he inherits, we'll be fine if he goes to Mizzou.
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Old Feb 13, 2017, 08:33 AM   #5371
illiniwil
if Martin goes to Missouri he is probably not our number one choice.
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Old Feb 13, 2017, 08:49 AM   #5372
sdfidaho
Location: Boise, Idaho
Quote:
Originally Posted by illiniwil View Post
if Martin goes to Missouri he is probably not our number one choice.
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Old Feb 13, 2017, 08:49 AM   #5373
PlayAZ
Whether he makes programs better or not, so far is not an indication that it affects his ability to recruit top talent as evidenced at Cal....

If he owns St. Louis, and we continue to struggle getting top tier talent from Chicago, then the program will continue to be in stuck in mediocrity and may never recover regardless of coach in place....that said I am not advocating he MUST be the next coach, maybe maybe not based on all options. I am simply not wanting him at Mizzou, with his recruiting abilities.
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Old Feb 13, 2017, 09:01 AM   #5374
Thor015
Looking forward to getting "The FULL Monty Williams" or is it the ILL Monty?? in orange and blue. Either way he would be a sick hire.

ILL!!
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Old Feb 13, 2017, 09:05 AM   #5375
FollowTisdale
Quote:
Originally Posted by illiniwil View Post
if Martin goes to Missouri he is probably not our number one choice.
Exactly. If he goes to Mizzery "over" Illinois, it's because Illinois didn't have interest. And that's not even a homer fan opinion, I'm pretty sure no college basketball coach in their right mind makes that choice with comparable offers on the table.

And if he does go to Mizzou, I doubt that automatically means Tilmon and others will follow him. Because in that scenario, we hired someone even better than Cuonzo, and the excitement will be firmly on Illinois, not Miznoz.
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