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Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread (November 2012-March 2013)

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Old Jan 13, 2013, 08:19 AM   #3901
combes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey View Post
My post was about a 2014 scholarship that many were banking on the premise that Shaw would transfer. Based on today's game, he's bound to earn some more PT going forward, presumably decreasing the chance of this (totally speculative) transfer.

I don't think Ibby is going anywhere. The idea of Shaw exploring other options made sense, but not rooted in any real truth (from what I had read). It's beginning to feel like talks of Lyle and Cliff might as well cease.
Shaw getting in for 19 minutes in a foul plagued game and having minimal success is not going to change things. Imo. Not saying he's staying or leaving. Just don't think yesterday changes anything.

Last edited by combes; Jan 13, 2013 at 08:22 AM.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 10:55 AM   #3902
idoc13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indicchief View Post
On the internet this topic will never come out right. With that in mind ..........

Lyle and Alexander are elite basketball players. Their talent by itself should trump most, if not all, players we currently have. I am saying this more as a statement of fact than anything else.

Experience has a huge meaning under most circumstances. But when inconsistency creeps in experience really has no meaning. Its meaning reappears when players become consistent. Today our players are not consistent and pretty much all our current signed recruits and the ones we are looking at in 14/15 seem to be playing with consistency – and at a relatively high level!!!

We need a PG – we really do not have one. IMVVVHO, with all due respect, TA will not suffice. Even Tate, IMVVVHO, will not get us there. We NEED a PG. Perhaps even two.

Depending on where we want to be, we will need a huge influx of talent that we lack today (for this coach?).

So, if a Lyle and an Alexander decide to enroll at UoI, we will have to make room.

Granted that does not sound right. It does not feel right. But where we want to go that is perhaps the best game plan. That is how it will shake out to be. The question is can we make it a win-win for everyone. I am one to think it is possible. A touchy subject, but one that needs to be visited IF (big if) these two kids decide to attend UoI.
No question. If Cliff or Lyle want to come, you make room. End of story.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 01:46 PM   #3903
illini ri0t
Banned
Location: Traverse City, MI
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indicchief View Post
On the internet this topic will never come out right. With that in mind ..........

Lyle and Alexander are elite basketball players. Their talent by itself should trump most, if not all, players we currently have. I am saying this more as a statement of fact than anything else.

Experience has a huge meaning under most circumstances. But when inconsistency creeps in experience really has no meaning. Its meaning reappears when players become consistent. Today our players are not consistent and pretty much all our current signed recruits and the ones we are looking at in 14/15 seem to be playing with consistency and at a relatively high level!!!

We need a PG we really do not have one. IMVVVHO, with all due respect, TA will not suffice. Even Tate, IMVVVHO, will not get us there. We NEED a PG. Perhaps even two.

Depending on where we want to be, we will need a huge influx of talent that we lack today (for this coach?).

So, if a Lyle and an Alexander decide to enroll at UoI, we will have to make room.

Granted that does not sound right. It does not feel right. But where we want to go that is perhaps the best game plan. That is how it will shake out to be. The question is can we make it a win-win for everyone. I am one to think it is possible. A touchy subject, but one that needs to be visited IF (big if) these two kids decide to attend UoI.
Why does everyone keep talking about Lyle likes he's a true PG?
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 01:53 PM   #3904
Indicchief
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illini ri0t View Post
Why does everyone keep talking about Lyle likes he's a true PG?

1) Fair enough, substitute "Lyle" with a "true" (I have no idea what that is) PG
2) Somebody had posted his stats, specially his assists this season. That should be enough indicator that he can play that position
3) Groce seems to think he is a "true" PG. ???????? Comments? (Which is the sole reason I say Lyle = Pure PG)
4) He would be better than anyone we have at that position (IMVVVHO)
5) We have a need for a PG and are recruiting him from what we can understand. Is there any other PG that we are recruiting (that heavily?) that you know of?
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 02:11 PM   #3905
HeartofaChampion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indicchief View Post
1) Fair enough, substitute "Lyle" with a "true" (I have no idea what that is) PG
2) Somebody had posted his stats, specially his assists this season. That should be enough indicator that he can play that position
3) Groce seems to think he is a "true" PG. ???????? Comments? (Which is the sole reason I say Lyle = Pure PG)
4) He would be better than anyone we have at that position (IMVVVHO)
5) We have a need for a PG and are recruiting him from what we can understand. Is there any other PG that we are recruiting (that heavily?) that you know of?
JG has said he likes scoring PGs, more like CGs who can create for themselves and for others. Main criteria: ability to drive and score, dish and kick out on O and play tough on-ball defense on D.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 02:33 PM   #3906
Bailey
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Location: Los Angeles
Quote:
Originally Posted by idoc13 View Post
No question. If Cliff or Lyle want to come, you make room. End of story.
OK....elaborate on "make room" then. Do you wanna yank Ibby's scholarship? Force Shaw or Devin into transferring? Who gets creaned?
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 02:40 PM   #3907
illini ri0t
Banned
Location: Traverse City, MI
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indicchief View Post
1) Fair enough, substitute "Lyle" with a "true" (I have no idea what that is) PG
True PG. A guard that looks to facilitate his teammates first. Trey Burke, Michael Carter-Williams, Phil Pressey. Players that can break down the defense and create easy points for the team, by either facilitating others/driving the lane.

Don't get me wrong, Lyle is very talented; and so far a herelded scorer in the HS ranks. It seems to me he's wired more to score than facilitate. Thats one reason I think he will ultimately end up at Louisville. Pitino lets guys come in and score all they want. I feel Groce doesn't NEED his PG's to be scorers, he needs them to be able to break down defenses.

I feel very good about Tate, he will fit that mold and hopefully the guys coming in are scorers; so we won't have to worry about our PG needing to score a lot.

I DO agree we could use another true PG. TA has a long way to go to get there still. But other needs outweigh the PG position, in which I really hope we get Cliff. His raw talent is astounding, plus i think he could give us 2-3 years before he enters the draft.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 02:51 PM   #3908
pizzaman
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Location: Northwoods of Wisconsin
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdonsbach View Post
Okay early morning question turning in my head. After a player has commited to us would it be common for our coaching staff to go to our commit's coach and ask them to play a certain way or to focus on certain aspects of their game. You know to try and prepare them for what they would expect from them in college?
I knew a couple of kids recruited to Wisconsin (one played, one flunked out.) The local HS head coach was a Badger alum and I know him from the community as well as being a member of the same church I attend. One of the HS assistant coaches is one of my tennis partners thus I know my information is accurate.

After signing, the Badger recruiter did not try to tell the HS coach how to play the recruit or what position to play but did tell the HS coach specific parts of the game areas to emphasize with the recruit. The Badger recruiter also stressed academics.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 02:51 PM   #3909
TCTORNADO
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indicchief View Post
1) Fair enough, substitute "Lyle" with a "true" (I have no idea what that is) PG
2) Somebody had posted his stats, specially his assists this season. That should be enough indicator that he can play that position
3) Groce seems to think he is a "true" PG. ???????? Comments? (Which is the sole reason I say Lyle = Pure PG)
4) He would be better than anyone we have at that position (IMVVVHO)
5) We have a need for a PG and are recruiting him from what we can understand. Is there any other PG that we are recruiting (that heavily?) that you know of?
Groce cannot comment on any recruit until he signs an LOI.
Lyle is nowhere near a true PG regardless of what some of the services say.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 02:59 PM   #3910
BrooksTaylorFan
Banned
Location: Illinois
Quote:
Originally Posted by illini ri0t View Post
True PG. A guard that looks to facilitate his teammates first. Trey Burke, Michael Carter-Williams, Phil Pressey. Players that can break down the defense and create easy points for the team, by either facilitating others/driving the lane.

Don't get me wrong, Lyle is very talented; and so far a herelded scorer in the HS ranks. It seems to me he's wired more to score than facilitate. Thats one reason I think he will ultimately end up at Louisville. Pitino lets guys come in and score all they want. I feel Groce doesn't NEED his PG's to be scorers, he needs them to be able to break down defenses.

I feel very good about Tate, he will fit that mold and hopefully the guys coming in are scorers; so we won't have to worry about our PG needing to score a lot.

I DO agree we could use another true PG. TA has a long way to go to get there still. But other needs outweigh the PG position, in which I really hope we get Cliff. His raw talent is astounding, plus i think he could give us 2-3 years before he enters the draft.
DJ Cooper says hello.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 03:02 PM   #3911
HoopCity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey View Post
My post was about a 2014 scholarship that many were banking on the premise that Shaw would transfer. Based on today's game, he's bound to earn some more PT going forward, presumably decreasing the chance of this (totally speculative) transfer.

I don't think Ibby is going anywhere. The idea of Shaw exploring other options made sense, but not rooted in any real truth (from what I had read). It's beginning to feel like talks of Lyle and Cliff might as well cease.

Can some one please explain the ILLINI policy on scholarships. Can a scholarship given by a previous coach be revoked by then new coach ?

When or can scholarships be revoked ??
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 03:03 PM   #3912
mdonsbach
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Location: Coatesville, PA
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooksTaylorFan View Post
DJ Cooper says hello.
Who is also on pace to be 4th all time in assists. I think Groce likes a little of both if I do say so myself.

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Old Jan 13, 2013, 03:11 PM   #3913
illini ri0t
Banned
Location: Traverse City, MI
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooksTaylorFan View Post
DJ Cooper says hello.
You're using a Mid-Major program as an example? Mid-Majors usually have one big time player that has the mentality/athleticism to score. That just happened to be Coop. I think Illinois is capable to recruit more scorers than just a PG. If i recall, Coop facilitates the team as well. All i'm saying is Groce needs a Burke, Carter-Williams, Pressey type guy who can score, but is more wired to facilitate/break down D's.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 03:18 PM   #3914
TCTORNADO
Does anybody know if Terry Rozier, former Louisville signee, is a "free agent" as a result of his going to Hargrave for a year. I know we were finalists (top 4) from the previous staff.
Would his going to prep school for 5th year make him eligible immediately this fall '013?
Thoughts??
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 04:15 PM   #3915
IlliniFreak7
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCTORNADO View Post
Does anybody know if Terry Rozier, former Louisville signee, is a "free agent" as a result of his going to Hargrave for a year. I know we were finalists (top 4) from the previous staff.
Would his going to prep school for 5th year make him eligible immediately this fall '013?
Thoughts??
Pretty sure he's still going to Louisville after this year, could be wrong tho
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 04:19 PM   #3916
chief3469
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopCity View Post
Can some one please explain the ILLINI policy on scholarships. Can a scholarship given by a previous coach be revoked by then new coach ?

When or can scholarships be revoked ??
Scholarships are awarded yearly. So, a kid can be on scholarship this year and the coaching staff can choose to not renew it for next year.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 04:41 PM   #3917
HeartofaChampion
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartofaChampion View Post
JG has said he likes scoring PGs, more like CGs who can create for themselves and for others. Main criteria: ability to drive and score, dish and kick out on O and play tough on-ball defense on D.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdonsbach View Post
Who is also on pace to be 4th all time in assists. I think Groce likes a little of both if I do say so myself.
Glad to see we actually agree, and BTF was actually saying the same thing.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 05:30 PM   #3918
illini ri0t
Banned
Location: Traverse City, MI
I think the point I was trying to make got lost somewhere. A guard that will facilitate FIRST. All the guards i previously mentioned can all score, but look to create opportunities to score first. Our current team is near the bottom of division I in assists. Getting another guy that would rather take the ball himself most of the time isn't what i think we need at the 1 spot. Nothing agaisnt Lyle, but he's a score first kinda guy.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 05:36 PM   #3919
HeartofaChampion
Quote:
Originally Posted by illini ri0t View Post
I think the point I was trying to make got lost somewhere. A guard that will facilitate FIRST. All the guards i previously mentioned can all score, but look to create opportunities to score first. Our current team is near the bottom of division I in assists. Getting another guy that would rather take the ball himself most of the time isn't what i think we need at the 1 spot. Nothing agaisnt Lyle, but he's a score first kinda guy.
Lyle does both. Yes, he scores a lot. That's what star players do in HS. He also creates for others a lot. He repeatedly racks up double digits in assists game after game. He's a spectacular playmaker, for himself and others. Surround him in college with a solid post scorer, strong scorers on the wings, he'll facilitate and score nicely. There's a reason JG is hot after him. Lyle has the talent to be an instant star at PG/CG who could lift our program to new heights as a frosh.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 05:42 PM   #3920
illini ri0t
Banned
Location: Traverse City, MI
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartofaChampion View Post
Lyle does both. Yes, he scores a lot. That's what star players do in HS. He also creates for others a lot. He repeatedly racks up double digits in assists game after game. He's a spectacular playmaker, for himself and others. Surround him in college with a solid post scorer, strong scorers on the wings, he'll facilitate and score nicely. There's a reason JG is hot after him. Lyle has the talent to be an instant star at PG/CG who could lift our program to new heights as a frosh.
Maybe you're right, how much is Groce on him? It does seem L'ville has him at the moment. Way to early to tell though.

Cliff would be the key acquirement in my opinion. When was the last time we had a guy as aggressive as he looks around the rim?
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 06:13 PM   #3921
BrooksTaylorFan
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Location: Illinois
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartofaChampion View Post
Lyle does both. Yes, he scores a lot. That's what star players do in HS. He also creates for others a lot. He repeatedly racks up double digits in assists game after game. He's a spectacular playmaker, for himself and others. Surround him in college with a solid post scorer, strong scorers on the wings, he'll facilitate and score nicely. There's a reason JG is hot after him. Lyle has the talent to be an instant star at PG/CG who could lift our program to new heights as a frosh.
+1. HOC is right on. Also, what he does in high school and what he is projected to do in college are two different things. I look at Lyle as more of a Derrick Rose type of PG and who wouldn't want a kid like that on there team?
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 06:26 PM   #3922
BrooksTaylorFan
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Location: Illinois
Quote:
Originally Posted by illini ri0t View Post
Maybe you're right, how much is Groce on him? It does seem L'ville has him at the moment. Way to early to tell though.

Cliff would be the key acquirement in my opinion. When was the last time we had a guy as aggressive as he looks around the rim?
Louisville landed 3 PG's and a top SG in 2013 & 2014. (see my earlier post) Lyle would have a lot of competition for minutes early on. And as far as I know, Rozier is still committed to Louisville unless someone else knows different?
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 06:36 PM   #3923
cjcastan
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Originally Posted by BrooksTaylorFan View Post
Louisville landed 3 PG's and a top SG in 2013 & 2014. (see my earlier post) Lyle would have a lot of competition for minutes early on. And as far as I know, Rozier is still committed to Louisville unless someone else knows different?
According to Scout he's signed LOI

link

also here

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Last edited by cjcastan; Jan 13, 2013 at 06:39 PM.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 07:15 PM   #3924
BrooksTaylorFan
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Originally Posted by cjcastan View Post
According to Scout he's signed LOI

link

also here
Thanks. I had not heard anything other than Rozier to Louisville until the other poster said that.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 07:40 PM   #3925
Bailey
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Location: Los Angeles
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Originally Posted by chief3469 View Post
Scholarships are awarded yearly. So, a kid can be on scholarship this year and the coaching staff can choose to not renew it for next year.
And it can be viewed by some (raises hand) as bad form. Also, I imagine there might be some long term repercussions if it's done to a CPL kid....for example...DeLasalle.
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