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Old Apr 30, 2017, 07:24 AM   #51
KBLEE
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Originally Posted by FiveStar View Post
Not at all. I'd rather not draft a guy that I traded a million picks for to move up one spot who would still have been available at my original spot who is not ready to play immediately.
This has been shown to be very unlikely. Several teams with QB needs were contacting the Bears to move up to #3 to get a QB, so they could surmise that they were also looking at the #2 pick. Trubisky was the #1 QB on most boards.
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Old Apr 30, 2017, 09:58 AM   #52
IlliniFaninHoosierLand
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Originally Posted by KBLEE View Post
This has been shown to be very unlikely. Several teams with QB needs were contacting the Bears to move up to #3 to get a QB, so they could surmise that they were also looking at the #2 pick. Trubisky was the #1 QB on most boards.
Exactly. If you like him, go up and get him.
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Old Apr 30, 2017, 10:11 AM   #53
FiveStar
Location: Austin
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Originally Posted by KBLEE View Post
This has been shown to be very unlikely. Several teams with QB needs were contacting the Bears to move up to #3 to get a QB, so they could surmise that they were also looking at the #2 pick. Trubisky was the #1 QB on most boards.
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Originally Posted by IlliniFaninHoosierLand View Post
Exactly. If you like him, go up and get him.
Why you guys are cool with trading a bunch of picks to move up for a guy who won't see the field by design this year is beyond me. Especially after it's not like he really lit it up in college, and we have other pressing needs (literally every position group) that could have been filled by an immediate impact guy at 3. We're just gonna have to agree to disagree.
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Old Apr 30, 2017, 10:47 AM   #54
IlliniFaninHoosierLand
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Originally Posted by FiveStar View Post
Why you guys are cool with trading a bunch of picks to move up for a guy who won't see the field by design this year is beyond me. Especially after it's not like he really lit it up in college, and we have other pressing needs (literally every position group) that could have been filled by an immediate impact guy at 3. We're just gonna have to agree to disagree.
I agree that we overpaid to get him. There's no disputing that.

But when you look at the Bears current QB situation, there's no need to have Trubisky starting until Week 1 of the 2018 season at the earliest.
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Old Apr 30, 2017, 11:44 AM   #55
IlliniJim20
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Originally Posted by IlliniFaninHoosierLand View Post
So lemme get this straight. You'd rather start a rookie QB who needs time to develop and learn how to play the toughest position in the NFL on the fly rather than have him sit on the bench for a year behind a starting QB who was always likely going to be the bridge guy and one year placeholder in Mike Glennon?
Similar to the old redshirt debate. Do you start a promising freshman QB over a solid, established though not spectacular senior?

I am on record as saying Bears overpaid, but I have no problem with sitting him a year while he learns.
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Old Apr 30, 2017, 05:25 PM   #56
IlliniJim20
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Originally Posted by IlliniNation1010 View Post
Zero possibility of Pace being a genius, even if Trubisky becomes an All-Pro. He gave away 3 picks to move up one spot for a player who was going to be there at 3. No other team was moving to number 2 to pick him!

You know this how?


Lots of smoke, rumors, reports saying otherwise. I've seen a few stating the Bears were getting many calls for THIER pick, so undoubtedly SF was also getting calls.

He may not be a genius, but he is not the idiot some on a message board make him out to be. And yes, I felt he overpaid, but he did get back one of the draft picks he traded.
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Old Apr 30, 2017, 07:17 PM   #57
FiveStar
Location: Austin
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Originally Posted by IlliniJim20 View Post
You know this how?


Lots of smoke, rumors, reports saying otherwise. I've seen a few stating the Bears were getting many calls for THIER pick, so undoubtedly SF was also getting calls.

He may not be a genius, but he is not the idiot some on a message board make him out to be. And yes, I felt he overpaid, but he did get back one of the draft picks he traded.
If the Bears only need was QB this a move that could be lived with. However, because they need immediate help in literally every position group, losing picks for a guy who will not play this year by design is pretty idiotic. Even if trubisky isn't there at 3, there's 4-5 other immediate impact guys that will be there, or you trade down, get more picks, and grab your best available or immediate impact guy in your trade down, while also stashing more picks to help your team in need of severe help.
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Old Apr 30, 2017, 10:19 PM   #58
jrichisamazing
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Originally Posted by FiveStar View Post
Why you guys are cool with trading a bunch of picks to move up for a guy who won't see the field by design this year is beyond me. Especially after it's not like he really lit it up in college, and we have other pressing needs (literally every position group) that could have been filled by an immediate impact guy at 3. We're just gonna have to agree to disagree.
I don't get why playing immediately is such a big deal at all. This team is rebuilding so getting a QB or any other position that can come in and play right away isn't going to change much. We all know we will be a 9 win team at best this year, but probably only 5-7 wins. Is picking a guy who can play right away really going to change that? Not much.

Fans want to win now, but that isn't what the draft is about. The ablility to start from day 1 might be on the bottom of the checklist that teams use to evaluate players. Unless maybe you are a Super Bowl contender who wants 1 or 2 guys who can come in and contribute right away.

Being frustrated about getting Trubisky is understandable, but if your reason is because he can't play right away then that is kind of silly.

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Old Apr 30, 2017, 10:25 PM   #59
redwingillini11
Location: Champaign
I really think its fine that we got a bunch of developmental/project pieces. This means we develop them this year, let Mitch sit and learn, we have a bad record and get high draft picks. Plus, if we end up with the top pick or second, we can trade down and get a lot of assets from a team looking for Darnold or Rosen. Next year we pick a bunch of sure things on defense, and then we are ready to start the 2018 season with a squad that can start to compete.

We weren't going to fix this team overnight by drafting Adams. Plus if we got marginally better, I doubt we would be able to take the next step through free agency and by drafting 18th. That hasn't really worked the past 10 years if you haven't noticed. This is a bold strategy, yes, but we have to wait until 2018 to really judge what Pace did. We gave Theo 3 seasons to be cellar dwellers before he turned the Cubs into contenders. Let's give Pace one more bad year and then let's see what his guys can do.
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Old May 1, 2017, 08:43 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by jrichisamazing View Post
The ablility to start from day 1 might be on the bottom of the checklist that teams use to evaluate players. Unless maybe you are a Super Bowl contender who wants 1 or 2 guys who can come in and contribute right away.
The 49ers disagree.

Quote:
There's plenty of guys in the third and fourth. I want to have four guys that can really help us early.
I would recommend reading that entire thing. It's like a bizarro version of what the Bears' draft day/front office approach apparently was.

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Old May 1, 2017, 09:01 AM   #61
FiveStar
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Originally Posted by jrichisamazing View Post
I don't get why playing immediately is such a big deal at all. This team is rebuilding so getting a QB or any other position that can come in and play right away isn't going to change much. We all know we will be a 9 win team at best this year, but probably only 5-7 wins. Is picking a guy who can play right away really going to change that? Not much.

Fans want to win now, but that isn't what the draft is about. The ablility to start from day 1 might be on the bottom of the checklist that teams use to evaluate players. Unless maybe you are a Super Bowl contender who wants 1 or 2 guys who can come in and contribute right away.

Being frustrated about getting Trubisky is understandable, but if your reason is because he can't play right away then that is kind of silly.
In general, when you have 1000000 holes in your roster, you draft the best available player. The guy who is the best available player helps your team, and does it immediately. He also doesn't require you to lose picks, to have him sit on the sideline.
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Old May 1, 2017, 09:25 AM   #62
IlliniBrave75
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Jeremy Werner‏Verified account @JWernerScout 3h3 hours ago
This is phenomenal. And says the 49ers had another team trying to trade up to No. 2https://twitter.com/themmqb/status/858956606041501697

The MMQB‏Verified account @theMMQB
For the 2017 draft, @SI_PeterKing embedded with GM John Lynch and the 49ers. Here's his story from inside the room: http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/05/01/s...ter-peter-king pic.twitter.com/4ndx2PJo4l
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Old May 1, 2017, 09:28 AM   #63
KBLEE
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John Fox has Silenced the Doubters Before

Quote:
The Carolina Panthers fans and draft experts that screamed for Harrington over Peppers 15 years ago look foolish now. Maybe the same fate awaits Trubisky’s detractors.
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Old May 1, 2017, 09:39 AM   #64
IlliniBrave75
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Jeremy Werner‏Verified account @JWernerScout 3h3 hours ago
This is phenomenal. And says the 49ers had another team trying to trade up to No. 2https://twitter.com/themmqb/status/858956606041501697

The MMQB‏Verified account @theMMQB
For the 2017 draft, @SI_PeterKing embedded with GM John Lynch and the 49ers. Here's his story from inside the room: http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/05/01/s...ter-peter-king … pic.twitter.com/4ndx2PJo4l
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Old May 1, 2017, 04:14 PM   #65
Illiniaaron
Location: Geneseo, IL
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Originally Posted by jrichisamazing View Post
I don't get why playing immediately is such a big deal at all. This team is rebuilding so getting a QB or any other position that can come in and play right away isn't going to change much. We all know we will be a 9 win team at best this year, but probably only 5-7 wins. Is picking a guy who can play right away really going to change that? Not much.

Fans want to win now, but that isn't what the draft is about. The ablility to start from day 1 might be on the bottom of the checklist that teams use to evaluate players. Unless maybe you are a Super Bowl contender who wants 1 or 2 guys who can come in and contribute right away.

Being frustrated about getting Trubisky is understandable, but if your reason is because he can't play right away then that is kind of silly.

Totally disagree with this, especially for first round draft picks. That's why they are so valuable, they are young and cheap talent that can make immediate impact. Not to mention most of the qb's drafted early in the first round the past 5-6 years have played immediately. Even the kid on the Rams (Goff I think) who they wanted to sit ended up starting by week eleven or something.
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Old May 1, 2017, 04:24 PM   #66
Illiniaaron
Location: Geneseo, IL
The thing I am most frustrated with about the Bears draft is that we all know this is a bad roster and there will be little immediate help coming from this year's draft. Other than the safety from Alabama I can't see any of these guys contributing much this year. I think Pace did not maximize the value of his second round pick for Shaheen and the fourth round pick for the rb from North Carolina A & T. Those guys could have been had later in the draft. Pace must have felt that the young db's on the roster as well as the ones signed in free agency are good enough to shore up the corner and safety spots.
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Old May 1, 2017, 05:06 PM   #67
jrichisamazing
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Originally Posted by FiveStar View Post
In general, when you have 1000000 holes in your roster, you draft the best available player. The guy who is the best available player helps your team, and does it immediately. He also doesn't require you to lose picks, to have him sit on the sideline.
Not true at all. Getting the best available is certainly true, but best available doesn't always mean able to play right away. The draft is all about teams guessing how high a player's potential is. The majority of the time, teams aren't looking for who can play right now.

But the question is whether Pace took Trubisky because he thinks he will develop into a star or if he took Trubisky because he felt the pressure of needing a QB. If it was the latter then we probably need a new GM.

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Old May 1, 2017, 07:17 PM   #68
PJD86
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The thing I am most frustrated with about the Bears draft is that we all know this is a bad roster and there will be little immediate help coming from this year's draft. Other than the safety from Alabama I can't see any of these guys contributing much this year. I think Pace did not maximize the value of his second round pick for Shaheen and the fourth round pick for the rb from North Carolina A & T. Those guys could have been had later in the draft. Pace must have felt that the young db's on the roster as well as the ones signed in free agency are good enough to shore up the corner and safety spots.

This is where I'm at, just screams another year or so before impact to me
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Old May 1, 2017, 07:22 PM   #69
FiveStar
Location: Austin
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Originally Posted by jrichisamazing View Post
Not true at all. Getting the best available is certainly true, but best available doesn't always mean able to play right away. The draft is all about teams guessing how high a player's potential is. The majority of the time, teams aren't looking for who can play right now.

But the question is whether Pace took Trubisky because he thinks he will develop into a star or if he took Trubisky because he felt the pressure of needing a QB. If it was the latter then we probably need a new GM.
In the first round the best available player helps your team immediately.
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Old May 1, 2017, 11:13 PM   #70
IlliniNation1010
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Originally Posted by IlliniJim20 View Post
You know this how?


Lots of smoke, rumors, reports saying otherwise. I've seen a few stating the Bears were getting many calls for THIER pick, so undoubtedly SF was also getting calls.

He may not be a genius, but he is not the idiot some on a message board make him out to be. And yes, I felt he overpaid, but he did get back one of the draft picks he traded.
FiveStar explained why it was a bad move; the Bears need help everywhere & they missed a chance for an impact player this year. Plus the fact that they just gave 16 mil to Glennon.

To answer your question though, of course the Bears were getting calls about the #3 pick & of course SF was getting calls about the #2 pick (not to select Trubisky though). Half of the GM's are trying to move up or down in the 1st & 2nd round. John Fox was not happy & all of the other GM's in the league are still scratching their head.
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Old May 2, 2017, 06:52 AM   #71
champaignchris
This team is now worse than it was when Pace took over.

The team was worse at the end of Emory's tenure than at his beginning, too.

There's been 6 straight years of eroding talent level.

It's pretty clear to me that the dysfunction begins at a level above the GM's office.
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Old May 2, 2017, 08:45 AM   #72
champaignchris
And they just drafted a qb to spend a year learning in a system when pretty much everyone agrees that the system he's going to be learning will be heading out the window at year's end when Fox and staff are fired.

They're already starting the Jay Cutler cycle (6 OCs in 8 years) of bringing in a new OC every year and Trubisky hasn't even inked his rookie contract yet.
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Old May 2, 2017, 09:19 AM   #73
KBLEE
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Old May 2, 2017, 10:25 AM   #74
Illinoise
This team will not be good this year or next year. A few draft picks weren't going to change that. They rolled the dice on two QB prospects and are praying that one of them pans out. Obviously Trubisky is where they are assuming the future lies but you never know. Glennon will get his chance.
Now you accumulate draft picks in 2018 and 2019 and stock the cupboards with young talent. I see this plan as a chance to get out of the cycle of going 7-9 and drafting in the middle of the first round every year. I have no idea whether it will work or not but I am pretty sure I know what this team would have done over the next four years with Mike Glennon at QB. Solomon Thomas and a few mid round picks weren't getting this team over the hump. Maybe to 7-9 and drafting 16th next year.
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Old May 2, 2017, 10:54 AM   #75
IanKEvans2
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Originally Posted by redwingillini11 View Post
We gave Theo 3 seasons to be cellar dwellers before he turned the Cubs into contenders. Let's give Pace one more bad year and then let's see what his guys can do.
Comparing NFL to MLB is apples and oranges. Almora, Rizzo, Baez, Russell, Bryant, Schwarber, etc... were expected to produce eventually, not immediately. MiLB allows for player development. The NFL doesn't offer that type of flexibility. The #2 pick in the NFL draft is meant to be an immediate impact.

Theo & company had a plan. Pace appears desperate.

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