illiniorphan
- Centralia
:thumb:
John Groce at Illinois
- Status
You know what I'm maybe most excited about after this win? That people can stop with the "we've never shot over 50% in a big ten game under Groce!" refrain. Although now I'm sure it will just shift to "only once..."
Ok so that's not what I'm most excited about but excellent job by the staff and players tonight. Have to build on it.
And of course it came against the #1 defense in the country (per Pomeroy ratings).
A great win, but we're still at 9 wins and it's January 10th. I'd love to be wrong and we salvage this season and make the tournament and grab an exciting 17 class and extend Groce, but 1 game is 1 game.
Stevegarbs
- Mokena, IL
icengineer
- Southern Illinois
I love that pic!! ^^^^
It legit makes me sad that fans immediately go to this place after a W and especially after one as huge as this one. But i guess that's the world we live in.
Regardless, huge for the team and staff to get this win and do it convincingly. Have to build on it now.
Agree with you , but I do think one game at a time is good approach.
Not sure what "salvaging season" really means (individual definitions probably vary widely) but with our challenges, regardless of our record, if we are consistently getting better(including freshmen) and competing to the end I will be satisfied that this is a productive season, mainly because of the experience for young players and dealing with adversity.
How many other B10 teams have 4 freshmen playing significant minutes? I know it's not an ideal position to be in (having to play major freshmen minutes) and I may be overly patient, but I do believe we are planting significant seeds this year with our freshmen experience...and to recover from MSU the way we did against #20 PU is a credit to JG. Go Illini!
I'm ecstatic about the win. The only reason I'm hard on Groce right now is the fact that Nunn and Hill, two great kids and players, are in danger of going their entire Illini careers without a tournament appearance. If a kid suits up for Illinois, they should do so in the full confidence that they are going to be on a tournament team.
I really do hope things turn around and Groce comes into his own. I like him a lot and hope he succeeds. I'm also just being realistic about the situation and realize that 1 good win doesn't negate several bad losses.
Saying there in danger of going their entire career without making the tournament is putting the cart about 400 miles in front of the horse. Also, those kids share part of the blame as well.
That said, I never said that it should negate anything. And we only have one bad loss by the way.
Even with a win today, we're still a huge longshot to make the tournament. We're 9-8. It would take a drastic run to get there. So that would be 3 years with both of those players and no tournaments. I'd call that in danger of going 0-4.
And it's not really Kendrick and Malcolm's fault that they don't have a reliable inside presence and a reliable PG. They are doing their parts but they just don't have the help.
Again, I really want Groce and this team to succeed. But I'm not nearly as big of a Groce fan as I am an Illinois fan, and if I think Illinois can be better without him, then I'll support that. We should be a top B1G team most years, but with Groce, we've been pretty mediocre. Just stating facts here.
Not sure why anyone would expect Illinois to be anything but mediocre in year 3 1/2 with all the injuries and disruptions suffered. Whether or not they will remain mediocre the rest of the season will be the telling aspect for the year.
This was an awesome win but let's not shift our expectations too much. To me, salvaging the season doesn't necessarily mean the tourney. If we get there, awesome, but I think it would be due to us playing our best ball in the BTT and winning it and not getting an at large bid.
To me, us salvaging this season is more about playing hard every game, and winning the ones we should and upsetting a few we shouldn't. We are still out 3/5 of the pre-season starting line up so I'm just happy our guys are competing and haven't given up on Coach Groce.
To me, us salvaging this season is more about playing hard every game, and winning the ones we should and upsetting a few we shouldn't. We are still out 3/5 of the pre-season starting line up so I'm just happy our guys are competing and haven't given up on Coach Groce.
Extend Groce!
With a pay raise.....
Foggy Notion
- San Francisco
Exactly! Having these guys buy in, compete as hard as possible, and finishing the season on a high note will be a huge accomplishment. While we all might want to see more than this, having those kinds of expectations are not realistic at this point.
The freshmen are getting a lot of experience, gaining confidence and contributing. That can only help down the road. With Finke in that class, I am excited to see what they become. Hopefully Jordan can learn from Nunn, DJ can learn from Malcolm and Finke and JCL can just keep progressing.
IllinoisFan733
- Chicago
This thread is a lot less active today. Where did all of the negative posts go?
The freshmen are growing by leaps and bounds every game. Remember, this is about the time when Hill/Nunn got inserted into the starting line-up their first year. Defense is the one thing that takes a while for young players to learn during the first year... it's night and day difference from high school.
Really excited to see where JFG & Co. take this team the rest of the season. Schedule lightens up a bit.
The freshmen are growing by leaps and bounds every game. Remember, this is about the time when Hill/Nunn got inserted into the starting line-up their first year. Defense is the one thing that takes a while for young players to learn during the first year... it's night and day difference from high school.
Really excited to see where JFG & Co. take this team the rest of the season. Schedule lightens up a bit.
ILL in IA
- Iowa City
Funny how quiet it got. It also hit me around mid morning how far things have fallen. I was way to excited for a win over #20 PU. Either way it was a fun win and I hope it remains quiet around here.This thread is a lot less active today. Where did all of the negative posts go?
The freshmen are growing by leaps and bounds every game. Remember, this is about the time when Hill/Nunn got inserted into the starting line-up their first year. Defense is the one thing that takes a while for young players to learn during the first year... it's night and day difference from high school.
Really excited to see where JFG & Co. take this team the rest of the season. Schedule lightens up a bit.
Pretty sure we lost 8 straight before MH and KN started regularly their freshmen year.This thread is a lot less active today. Where did all of the negative posts go?
The freshmen are growing by leaps and bounds every game. Remember, this is about the time when Hill/Nunn got inserted into the starting line-up their first year. Defense is the one thing that takes a while for young players to learn during the first year... it's night and day difference from high school.
Really excited to see where JFG & Co. take this team the rest of the season. Schedule lightens up a bit.
I still believe if we started them a couple games earlier, we would have made the dance then. We did finish the season strong, despite missing dance.
IllinoisFan733
- Chicago
My point was that the freshmen seem to be ahead of where MH and KN were when they were freshmen at this point of the season, due to trial by fire. Not the circurmstances on when JFG put them into the starting line-up.
Smultronstallet
- Urbana, IL
Yep. Both Nunn and Hill made their first start on February 9th, 2014 at Penn State after losing 8 in a row.
On paper that season doesn't look great, but we ended on a high note. In fact, we lost to Michigan in the quarterfinals of the Big Ten Tournament by 1 point a mere ten days after a 31 point loss to Michigan at home. The necessary adjustments were made. It was just a little too late.
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ILL in IA
- Iowa City
That 1 point loss on a floater by Tracy was really the last meaningful game he played. Sure we had a few NIT games after it, but man does that seem like a long time ago.
If anything, this year's trials has shown that freshmen are not generally able to contribute in meaningful ways from the beginning. Finke has done well but he is also a red-shirt freshman so not what one should typically expect. The rest have struggled early on but are finally coming along. I am sure this is due to the increased minutes they have had to play. I am not so sure that MH and KN were ready to contribute earlier than when they did.
It is a double edged sword in that to be ready, they need playing time but to give playing time results in increased risk of losses. Bringing them along slowly and basing playing time on practice performance seems to be the least risky and most prudent course if the coach has the luxury to do so. Coach has not had that luxury this year and has had to walk a line where finding the best course of action has not always been clear-cut. I don't think we would have seen the minutes for AA if the freshmen were ready to play from day one.
We can all second-guess the actions of coach Groce all we want. The fact is, he is the one who knows the team best and has to juggle the personnel while trying to get wins in the process. Whether or not he has made mistakes in this regard along the way can never really be known. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt and this year has reinforced that for me.
sacraig
- The desert
bleedsorangenblue said:
And to add to your point, even then his defense has generally left quite a bit to be desired. At the end of the day, the red-shirt year helped get him more physically ready for the college game, but nothing substitutes for game experience in terms of really getting the hang of playing D at this level.
- Status