Iowa 77, Illinois 65 POSTGAME

#26      
They're both glaring weaknesses right now. I'm concerned that they'll still be glaring weaknesses next year, too. TA can't be expected to be as quick or sharp next year as he was in 2014, and he wasn't a very good PG back then, either. TJL will be a frosh. Can't expect him to come in and be a B1G-quality starter from the get-go. And MM and MF will hopefully make incremental improvement as defenders and rebounders, but MF is not a natural C, and MM has obvious limitations. JG will probably again pound the pavement for another 5th-year transfer at the 5. We'll need one for sure. Our C play is sub-standard.

Tracy, TJL, and Tate will be better than Tate and Lewis hands down. I don't care if tracy is only at 80%.

As for this year, I don't think we need to look any farther back than the UAB/ISU games to see how much more important the rebounding is than pg. We had a healthy roster for 1.5 games and looked good, even with our sub part pg duo.
 
#27      

AeroIllini

3rd Floor talbot lab
Tracy, TJL, and Tate will be better than Tate and Lewis hands down. I don't care if tracy is only at 80%.

As for this year, I don't think we need to look any farther back than the UAB/ISU games to see how much more important the rebounding is than pg. We had a healthy roster for 1.5 games and looked good, even with our sub part pg duo.

That's why I like DJ starting the next one, he looks hungry for the ball. (And it was him who scored our 2 second chance points)
 
#28      
He's played in the second half of the season, so he's not eligible for a medical RS.

I realize that according to the letter of the law this is the case, but this is the NCAA we're dealing with, just wondering if there has been a precedent set where a player has applied for it anyway in a similar situation and been either granted or denied. Mike playing a whopping couple minutes in 1 game being the difference between being eligible or not seems like the kind of case where you might have some leeway to have a little generous rule interpretation on the part of our never consistent governing body.

Couldn't hurt to apply anyway
 
#29      

whovous

Washington, DC
He's played in the second half of the season, so he's not eligible for a medical RS.

But that is not what the rule says. It says the season ending injury must have happened in the first half of the season. An argument can be made that that is what happened. I am not saying he wins that argument, given that he plays fr Illinois and Illinois always loses NCAA arguments, but it is an argument that can be made with a straight face.

My guess is that MT will return eventually this season. If so, we won't get the chance to get slapped around again by the NCAA.
 
#30      
The encouraging thing re DJ today is that Groce left him in there. Stopped the reflexive frosh-yank; hopefully that continues, even though DJ is bound to still make a few mistakes.

I hope, Groce, keeps the frosh-heavy line-up (especially in starting positions). We have a handful of games to get these guys ready to get us out of the cellar next year. I believe Groce is safe this year, regardless, so why not bank on next year to become competitive?

Good night all Illini fans. I'll watch the SB on a recording in just 10.7 hours. Can't wait. Go Broncos!!!
 
#31      
That's why I like DJ starting the next one, he looks hungry for the ball. (And it was him who scored our 2 second chance points)

I like the idea in theory, but I wonder how hard teams would press us without a true pg on the court. I'd like to think we could handle it, but then I think back to how terrible we've looked against the press in both the Minnesota and rutgers games
 
#32      

Deleted member 3875

D
Guest
Can't win without an inside game. The difference was second-chance points. We can't compete on the boards with anyone.

We'll almost certainly be playing one of the graveyard games on Wednesday in the Big Ten tournament.

Two bigs in street clothes. Case closed.
 
#33      
But that is not what the rule says. It says the season ending injury must have happened in the first half of the season. An argument can be made that that is what happened. I am not saying he wins that argument, given that he plays fr Illinois and Illinois always loses NCAA arguments, but it is an argument that can be made with a straight face.

My guess is that MT will return eventually this season. If so, we won't get the chance to get slapped around again by the NCAA.

Yeah, my assumption is that he will return for a few games this year anyway, making my hypothetical moot, but it really would be a season ending injury, considering he even tried to come back and couldn't do it. A lot of teams would have just sat him and tried for the waiver, we at least went out and proved he couldn't play, lol

The poor kid transfered for a chance to play high major basketball and he hasn't even got to play a single game in champaign. I feel for him
 
#34      

AeroIllini

3rd Floor talbot lab
I like the idea in theory, but I wonder how hard teams would press us without a true pg on the court. I'd like to think we could handle it, but then I think back to how terrible we've looked against the press in both the Minnesota and rutgers games

Yeah that's the flaw. However is it worth it giving up 1-3 turnovers per game to have another offensive threat? I think you'd have to look at the statistics of our shooters to answer that one. Which, ultimately, is why we pay John Groce a million+ dollars a season.
 
#35      
For this Illini Team, it doesn't matter who is and isn't playing it is all about the product on the court. If the team gives it their all and we lose, our fan base will be content that we left it all on the court. That said, today like many other games, were lackluster. No hustle from the team, not fighting for second chances, bonehead plays were all very prevalent today as they have been for the team the whole year.

Iowa is a very good team, but today they didn't set the world on fire. They just played an average game for them and beat us easily. If our team gave it their all today this would have been a much more competitive game and we would have actually had a chance. Our team didn't bring their "A game" for another countless time on the season. When will enough be enough?
 
#36      
I realize that according to the letter of the law this is the case, but this is the NCAA we're dealing with, just wondering if there has been a precedent set where a player has applied for it anyway in a similar situation and been either granted or denied. Mike playing a whopping couple minutes in 1 game being the difference between being eligible or not seems like the kind of case where you might have some leeway to have a little generous rule interpretation on the part of our never consistent governing body.

Couldn't hurt to apply anyway

I think the fact that we tried to bring him back, knowing very well that he would not even be eligible if he played, is all you need to know in this case. Personally, I never believed the chances of him getting a 6th year were good to begin with, and I have a feeling the staff knew that as well.
 
#37      
Yeah that's the flaw. However is it worth it giving up 1-3 turnovers per game to have another offensive threat? I think you'd have to look at the statistics of our shooters to answer that one. Which, ultimately, is why we pay John Groce a million+ dollars a season.

Imo, 1-3 turnovers isn't the problem, it's 5-7 turnovers or more. We've turned it over 1-3 times in a matter of a few posessions against the press already this season.

We just have no depth and too many guys playing out of position because of it. It's hard to do anything different, but I'm also not opposed to trying anything at this point.
 
#38      
I realize that according to the letter of the law this is the case, but this is the NCAA we're dealing with, just wondering if there has been a precedent set where a player has applied for it anyway in a similar situation and been either granted or denied. Mike playing a whopping couple minutes in 1 game being the difference between being eligible or not seems like the kind of case where you might have some leeway to have a little generous rule interpretation on the part of our never consistent governing body.

Couldn't hurt to apply anyway

But that is not what the rule says. It says the season ending injury must have happened in the first half of the season. An argument can be made that that is what happened. I am not saying he wins that argument, given that he plays fr Illinois and Illinois always loses NCAA arguments, but it is an argument that can be made with a straight face.

My guess is that MT will return eventually this season. If so, we won't get the chance to get slapped around again by the NCAA.

Since he played again, the injury obviously didn't end his season, so again, he's not eligible. This has been confirmed by guys like Jeremy Werner, so no need to wonder. And it's been apparent from the beginning that Thorne isn't interested in coming back next year regardless.
 
#39      

OrangeDeeLight

Champaign Area
Maybe if we don't miss so many layups we take it to the wire? Lewis missed what...like 4 layups by himself? Finke had 1 point blank. Ughhh!!!
 
#40      
I think the fact that we tried to bring him back, knowing very well that he would not even be eligible if he played, is all you need to know in this case. Personally, I never believed the chances of him getting a 6th year were good to begin with, and I have a feeling the staff knew that as well.

I agree, just throwing out hypotheticals to give us something else to talk about besides losing basketball, lol

I still think they'll apply for it though, if he doesn't play that is. I think he will play again though.
 
#41      

AeroIllini

3rd Floor talbot lab
Imo, 1-3 turnovers isn't the problem, it's 5-7 turnovers or more. We've turned it over 1-3 times in a matter of a few posessions against the press already this season.

We just have no depth and too many guys playing out of position because of it. It's hard to do anything different, but I'm also not opposed to trying anything at this point.

Ah, didn't realize it was quite that bad, thanks
 
#42      
Agree with all of this. What I don't understand is why we do not play Mav and Finke in the same lineup for extended periods of time. I understand that Finke may not be 100% but he seems to be the only one who can effectively make the entry pass. It was painful to watch all five guys just wandering the perimeter when Mav was not in there.

Good game for DJW, that part was fun to watch.

MM and MF on the court together worked well at MN. Would like to see them on the floor together for 15-20 mpg next game. More size, more scoring, better offensive balance and both have high BB IQs on the offensive end.
 
#43      

Soxfreak64

Bloomington
Somebody already said it, but I have no desire to see Tate or Lewis on the floor outside of a blowout or their respective senior nights. Both guys work REALLY hard and give their all to the team, but just don't have enough to give.

At least we can blame the severe lack of rebounding on injuries.
 
#44      

whovous

Washington, DC
Since he played again, the injury obviously didn't end his season, so again, he's not eligible. This has been confirmed by guys like Jeremy Werner, so no need to wonder. And it's been apparent from the beginning that Thorne isn't interested in coming back next year regardless.

It seems to me that can literally be true only if you accept the idea that playing again was what constituted the season ending injury.

Assuming he does not play again (and I think he will play again), then it seems reasonable to think he had a season ending injury. The next question: When did that injury happen? There are only two possibilities: In the game prior to his surgery, or the game in which he came back. if those are the only two possibilities, the first one seems more likely to my biased mind.

If he does not play again, I think we at least need to make the argument. We need to keep looking for more bigs in any event.
 
#46      

whovous

Washington, DC
I agree, just throwing out hypotheticals to give us something else to talk about besides losing basketball, lol

I still think they'll apply for it though, if he doesn't play that is. I think he will play again though.

How about something else to talk about? What is Finke's upside defensive potential? I think he can be great offensively, but will his defense ever be better than mediocre?
 
#47      
I like the idea in theory, but I wonder how hard teams would press us without a true pg on the court. I'd like to think we could handle it, but then I think back to how terrible we've looked against the press in both the Minnesota and rutgers games

NW hasn't pressed all season. That shouldn't be a concern.

I wouldn't put DJW at the 1, though. Handles aren't good enough at this level.
 
#48      
It seems to me that can literally be true only if you accept the idea that playing again was what constituted the season ending injury.

Assuming he does not play again (and I think he will play again), then it seems reasonable to think he had a season ending injury. The next question: When did that injury happen? There are only two possibilities: In the game prior to his surgery, or the game in which he came back. if those are the only two possibilities, the first one seems more likely to my biased mind.

If he does not play again, I think we at least need to make the argument. We need to keep looking for more bigs in any event.

He was injured vs ISU. He played again vs IU, so it did not end his season. He is not getting a red shirt. He is not coming back next season.

I think Illinois will be looking for another 5th year guy.
 
#49      

AeroIllini

3rd Floor talbot lab
NW hasn't pressed all season. That shouldn't be a concern.

I wouldn't put DJW at the 1, though. Handles aren't good enough at this level.

If I were the coach and doing this strategy, I'd have Hill bring it up. Of course, the extra effort might wear him down a bit, so Lewis/Tate would have to come in to give a breather. And it's my assumption that Nunn has decent handles as well, so he could bring it up too. Now if it's one guy pressuring I'd also employ what we've been doing all year and pass the ball up the court.
 
#50      
How about something else to talk about? What is Finke's upside defensive potential? I think he can be great offensively, but will his defense ever be better than mediocre?

He needs more bulk. Just not strong enough to hold position yet, also affects his ability to rebound. I don't know that he'll ever be on nnanna's level as far as helping or blocking shots, but I think the potential is there for him to be a better man to man defender than nnanna