Illinois Basketball 2016-2017

[Hands Malone]

I think we will likely get an upgrade. I'm not sure I would expect a major upgrade? Depends on expectations and how the buts turn out. If Tracy doesn't make it back, is TJL as a freshman a major upgrade from Lewis? I'm not convinced of that. If Tracy is back at 1/2 the effectiveness is it a major upgrade, I'm not convinced of that. The value of 3 mediocre pgs over 2 mediocre pgs isn't much in my book, we need the Tracy from 2 years ago, we need TJL to outplay his ranking (while coming off an injury), or a miracle improvement from Tate to have a major upgrade IMO.

I guess my glass is half empty on next years team so I'm adding a little scotch. Will TA be back at 1/2 or 3/4 strength or will another injury pop up? Will LB be back and JT be back or will the Illini just put a defense attorney on retainer? Will the NCAA give MT a 6th or if not, will there be enough time to find another big? Will there be any transfers heading out? I'm adding a little more scotch, still way too much water.

 

[jrichisamazing]

I think we will likely get an upgrade. I'm not sure I would expect a major upgrade? Depends on expectations and how the buts turn out. If Tracy doesn't make it back, is TJL as a freshman a major upgrade from Lewis? I'm not convinced of that. If Tracy is back at 1/2 the effectiveness is it a major upgrade, I'm not convinced of that. The value of 3 mediocre pgs over 2 mediocre pgs isn't much in my book, we need the Tracy from 2 years ago, we need TJL to outplay his ranking (while coming off an injury), or a miracle improvement from Tate to have a major upgrade IMO.

Malcolm and JCL also have the potential to improve their PG skills which could be a big boost.

 

[illini8507]

I think freshman TJL will be an upgrade on the offensive end, at least due to him having a jumpshots that will need to be guarded against. Will he take care of the ball as well as Lewis or tate? That remains to be seen. I wasn't terribly impressed with either lewis or Tate's D this year, and TJL is supposed to be a good defender, so I guess it depends on how quickly he adapts to the scheme.

Not saying he's going to outplay his ranking and be on the all B1G frosh team, but the pg bar at Illinois is incredibly low after this season. We should be upgraded at pg imho

 

[illinitiger]

I think freshman TJL will be an upgrade on the offensive end, at least due to him having a jumpshots that will need to be guarded against. Will he take care of the ball as well as Lewis or tate? That remains to be seen. I wasn't terribly impressed with either lewis or Tate's D this year, and TJL is supposed to be a good defender, so I guess it depends on how quickly he adapts to the scheme.

Not saying he's going to outplay his ranking and be on the all B1G frosh team, but the pg bar at Illinois is incredibly low after this season. We should be upgraded at pg imho

I have the same thought on TJL...only reservation I have is he is coming off injury. I expect him to play with a chip on shoulder and TA helping carry load makes it so he doesn't have to be savior.

On KL, he had some productive games down stretch, and overall I though his D at the end was good.

 

[freebird6]

With the way injuries have taken a toll the last couple years I don't think we've ever seen what a Groce players team looks like. I can't really count the junior class because except for Nunn and Hill the other three Mav, Tate or Colbert wouldn't have been recruited by him. You have to remember Groce simply got the best he could at the time and that was a player at each position , A starting point if you will . If Black returns and we get super lucky with Thorne , this team could be very good . Much better than most think.

I think that is a good take. Going over to the Ohio recruiting board and remember seeing staff at Flying to the Hoop when they were there to see Hill, Nunn and Tate (and Marquette signee Steve Taylor), those were guys, along with Mav, they had cultivated relationships for some time. I am not sure where Colbert came from or who had the relationship. All had offers which included P5 courtiers but they followed JG and Co. to Ill. Good take on potential as well

 

[idoc13]

Groce has to go. He has had ridiculously bad luck, and the legal problems and injuries aren't his fault. Doesn't matter. We need a culture change.

I could be wrong but I don't think Damonte decommits if we hire a big name. I would guess he is more loyal to the school than the coach. Let's face it, no one in their right mind would be lining up to play for Groce. He hasn't put anyone in the NBA and hasn't won.

 

[Butkuser]

I guess my glass is half empty on next years team so I'm adding a little scotch. Will TA be back at 1/2 or 3/4 strength or will another injury pop up? Will LB be back and JT be back or will the Illini just put a defense attorney on retainer? Will the NCAA give MT a 6th or if not, will there be enough time to find another big? Will there be any transfers heading out? I'm adding a little more scotch, still way too much water.

This sounds like the end of an episode teaser for a soap opera. Tune in tomorrow for "________." Please feel free to add your own title. Mine are eihter "As The Stomach Churns," or " Plays without Knives."

 

[Greensboro]

Malcolm and JCL also have the potential to improve their PG skills which could be a big boost.

...In my mind JCL/Hill getting betterat pg is likely, but getting enough better to really move the needle next year is unlikely. IMO I think JCL is more than a year away from being a significant step up at pg...plus both Hill & JCL are already playing significant amounts at 2/3/4 so we likely get some dropoff at wing that takes away from any overall gain they make at pg.

I think freshman TJL will be an upgrade on the offensive end, at least due to him having a jumpshots that will need to be guarded against. Will he take care of the ball as well as Lewis or tate? That remains to be seen. I wasn't terribly impressed with either lewis or Tate's D this year, and TJL is supposed to be a good defender, so I guess it depends on how quickly he adapts to the scheme.

Not saying he's going to outplay his ranking and be on the all B1G frosh team, but the pg bar at Illinois is incredibly low after this season. We should be upgraded at pg imho

I agree the bar for improved play is low & I think most think we will be upgraded at pg next year. The conversation started with us being very good next year and needing consistent pg play. The question in my mind is how much better do we need to be at pg to be comfortably in the dance. To get there, I think we need to raise the bar significantly (from worst in the big ten to at least competitive with most of the big ten). IMO, the most likely scenario for that is Tracy back at 100%, and/or TJL exceeding reasonable expectations. My fear is we end up with 3 less than great options again that does't move the needle enough, do we play JCL/Hill/... out of position, do we play a freshman who really isn't ready, do we play a less than 100% Tracy, does Tate finally learn to shoot.

 

[Kramer]

Heard from very reliable source that Thorne is better than 50:50 on returning for next year. Docs are going to admit that they were in err regarding releasing him to play (Indiana game).

Was that Dr. Beckman?

 

[IllinoisFan733]

Watching Indiana last night, it really goes to show what a quick, penetrating PG like Yogi does for a team. It really opens up an offense.

Hopefully TA or TJL can provide that for us moreso than JT/KL did this year.

 

[Foggy Notion]

This sounds like the end of an episode teaser for a soap opera. Tune in tomorrow for "________." Please feel free to add your own title. Mine are eihter "As The Stomach Churns," or " Plays without Knives."

"Now that Burt can, will he and Mary ever find the time? Will Corrine really kill Peter if she catches him fooling around? Will Peter continue to fool around? Will Corrine catch him? Now that Danny has been both an Arab and a Jew, will he declare war on himself? Will Jessica really walk out on Chester? Or will she call a cab? These questions and many others will be answered on next week's episode of Soap."

 

[Epsilon]

Ouch.

https://illinois.n.rivals.com/news/illini-hoops-fans-asking-what-about-us-

 

[illinifan87]

Rumor on the Score states Whitman is interested in coaches currently in the tournament. Once the tournament is over if he can convince one of his choices to come he will make the change if his top choices don't commit then he will stay with Groce for another year.

This shouldn't be surprising. Only reason he fired Cubit was because he locked up Lovie.

Whitman is going to tread as much water as he can with Groce until he can find his replacement.

Biggest mistake(s) Thomas made were firing Zook and Weber without having a replacement lined up.

I think Whitman is going to hook a really big name. I mean the guy sold Lovie freaking Smith on his vision of Illinois. Get Whitman in the room with one of these tournament coaches and it's a done deal.

Question I have is who would be on our radar?

 

[89illinigrad]

This shouldn't be surprising. Only reason he fired Cubit was because he locked up Lovie.

Whitman is going to tread as much water as he can with Groce until he can find his replacement.

Biggest mistake(s) Thomas made were firing Zook and Weber without having a replacement lined up.

I think Whitman is going to hook a really big name. I mean the guy sold Lovie freaking Smith on his vision of Illinois. Get Whitman in the room with one of these tournament coaches and it's a done deal.

Question I have is who would be on our radar?

I think what helped JW on the football side was his NFL connections, particularly Turner. I don't know if he has similar connections on the BB side, which may be why he gave Groce the vote of confidence (to give himself time to find a potential replacement).

Although there may be more pressure to make a move now, due to recent events, I don't think anyone should expect a home run hire like in football.

FWIW, I still think Groce gets one more year, if only to give JW time to find a replacement.

 

[WesterveltVictoryCigar]

Biggest mistake(s) Thomas made were firing Zook and Weber without having a replacement lined up.

Unless you're hiring a coach who is not currently coaching (i.e Lovie), that really doesn't happen. You should have a pretty good idea of who you think you can get, but no AD hires their new coach before firing the current guy.

 

[Konnie]

On the 3/19/16 WDWS Saturday Sports Talk Show, Tate said that Whitman had talked to Jerry Colangelo but Tate did not know what they talked about.

 

[illinifan87]

Unless you're hiring a coach who is not currently coaching (i.e Lovie), that really doesn't happen. You should have a pretty good idea of who you think you can get, but no AD hires their new coach before firing the current guy.

True but it seemed like Thomas went into his searches blind. Whitman should at the very least have a good idea of the interest level in this job before he cans Groce.

Whitman is calculated. If he fires Groce, best believe he has the next coach in his crosshairs and there is mutual interest.

 

[Obelix]

This shouldn't be surprising. Only reason he fired Cubit was because he locked up Lovie.

Whitman is going to tread as much water as he can with Groce until he can find his replacement.

Biggest mistake(s) Thomas made were firing Zook and Weber without having a replacement lined up.

I think Whitman is going to hook a really big name. I mean the guy sold Lovie freaking Smith on his vision of Illinois. Get Whitman in the room with one of these tournament coaches and it's a done deal.

Question I have is who would be on our radar?

The premise that you can lock up a coach before you make a change is false in the vast majority of times. I mean, how stupid are all these schools, especially with those with the big budgets who get turned down? All these idiot ADs around.

The coaching community is a very close-knit community. It is a lot easier approaching a coach (before you fire your own coach) when that coach is without a job (e.g., Lovie, someone fired, someone out of coaching) and a lot more difficult to start negotiations and meetings and lock the coach up when you have not fired a coach and the coaches you want are still employed. Especially with social media, and abundance of information on the internet, the latter is almost impossible and can lead to very embarrassing situations. Let's not look at Lovie as the standard here because it is not. If Lovie was an active coach still coaching in college, It would have been almost impossible to close the deal before firing Cubit.

 

[ChicagoChief]

Just throwing out names, have no idea about their contract status'

- Jay Wright
- Gregg Marshall
- Dana Altman
- Larry K.
- Chris Mack

 

[illinifan87]

I think what helped JW on the football side was his NFL connections, particularly Turner. I don't know if he has similar connections on the BB side, which may be why he gave Groce the vote of confidence (to give himself time to find a potential replacement).

Although there may be more pressure to make a move now, due to recent events, I don't think anyone should expect a home run hire like in football.

FWIW, I still think Groce gets one more year, if only to give JW time to find a replacement.

Oh no doubt and smart of Whitman to use his NFL connections. The vote of confidence, at least for me, was to buy himself time to line up a replacement or at least have those conversations with coaches who may be interested in the job.

Groce knows his seat is warm too.

 

[WesterveltVictoryCigar]

True but it seemed like Thomas went into his searches blind. Whitman should at the very least have a good idea of the interest level in this job before he cans Groce.

Whitman is calculated. If he fires Groce, best believe he has the next coach in his crosshairs and there is mutual interest.

I agree and it's probably the biggest reason why Groce will be back. Whitman is (IMO) unlikely to be as prepared as he'd like to be right now. And given the complications of the situation, he's more likely to be willing to wait it out for at least 1 more season.

 

[Jimmy McNulty]

Unless you're hiring a coach who is not currently coaching (i.e Lovie), that really doesn't happen. You should have a pretty good idea of who you think you can get, but no AD hires their new coach before firing the current guy.

While most of the time true, but Thoms either completely misread the signals he was getting or way over estimated his selling abilities. He botched both searches. A move needed to made on Weber. I think there was a case to keep Zook for one more year.

 

[illinifan87]

Just throwing out names, have no idea about their contract status'

- Jay Wright
- Gregg Marshall
- Dana Altman
- Larry K.
- Chris Mack

Easier said than done, but IMO a key to this hire would be getting someone who can recruit Chicago effectively.

Whether it is someone with Chicago connections or someone Whitman believes can make a splash there.

I know that place is a cesspool, but we have to find some way to build a pipeline there.

If that coach isn't out there and available right now, then Groce gets another year. But Whitman is going to be extremely thorough and exhaust all his resources to find the right guy.

Illinois is a blue chip job with a Ton of potential and that gives Whitman a ton of ammunition to sell it to candidates.

 

[illinifan87]

The premise that you can lock up a coach before you make a change is false in the vast majority of times. I mean, how stupid are all these schools, especially with those with the big budgets who get turned down? All these idiot ADs around.

The coaching community is a very close-knit community. It is a lot easier approaching a coach (before you fire your own coach) when that coach is without a job (e.g., Lovie, someone fired, someone out of coaching) and a lot more difficult to start negotiations and meetings and lock the coach up when you have not fired a coach and the coaches you want are still employed. Especially with social media, and abundance of information on the internet, the latter is almost impossible and can lead to very embarrassing situations. Let's not look at Lovie as the standard here because it is not. If Lovie was an active coach still coaching in college, It would have been almost impossible to close the deal before firing Cubit.

Should've prefaced my post better. Maybe 'locking up' a coach isn't normal, but putting feelers out and getting the temperature certainly is.

And he's bought himself at least a year with his vote of confidence for Groce.

Perception matters. Thomas bumbling through the basketball coaching search and 'striking out' mattered. Because publicly it felt like we settled for Groce.

 

[Obelix]

Should've prefaced my post better. Maybe 'locking up' a coach isn't normal, but putting feelers out and getting the temperature certainly is.

And he's bought himself at least a year with his vote of confidence for Groce.

Perception matters. Thomas bumbling through the basketball coaching search and 'striking out' mattered. Because publicly it felt like we settled for Groce.

Again, it is almost impossible when you go after active coaches who already have jobs. Look at Oregon and Oklahoma State in their last go around. Schools with huge money backing and extremely elaborate business networks. And arguably in better shape than Illinois is today. You think their ADs were idiots? Phil Knight has a huge network, and more influential connections than we will ever ever have. So does T. Boone Pickens. Not only are they heavily involved and loaded with money, but they are definitely more business savvy than anyone on Illinois campus. There is a reason that major colleges with more money and in better shape than Illinois often strike out. It is not that their ADs are idiots or than their business network lacks connections.

Lovie is great, but he was a coach without a job. Unless you can lock up Thibs next, locking up a big name active coach before you fire your current coach is almost impossible. You can send feelers but if you are Illinois, discussions will not progress much until you have actual meetings and start offering packages. That is if you want the next Shaka Smart or Brad Stevens.