Comparing the rankings of the groups should temper your expectations, but I hope you're right. That being said, our 3 guards from the 04-05 squad did not have a 5 star center on the team.
Trent Frazier (2017 PG) commits to Illinois
Comparing the rankings of the groups should temper your expectations, but I hope you're right. That being said, our 3 guards from the 04-05 squad did not have a 5 star center on the team.
Lets temper the expectations of the new 3 headed PG monster. They will be a vast improvement at the PG play and depth of it. Dee and Deron were top 2-3 PGs the year they left college and both were MCAA level guards. Deron was not selected but should have been in a very deep PG class. The year that produced Raymond Felton and several other top tier PGs.
Come on down Mr. Frazier! Can't believe I'm still this ecstatic over his commitment 
Yes, we all hope for the best for the 3 new guards. If the year was 2020/21 right now, we'd have a better idea how these comparisons might shake out to previous players, but as I said before, it's way too early to tell right now. I'm sure in another thread somewhere, we've bantered back and forth how the 2005 guards compared to the 1989 guards, as well, but let's save that discussion for another time or new thread.
It appears he likes the commitment. He retweeted the post below
https://twitter.com/illininationjfg/status/767592607572713472
Just the thought of a # 3 class sends chills to my Illinois body.
EfremWinters84
- S. Carolina
Darn -- and I knew it right after I typed it! You'd think with my screen name I might have gotten this one right. And all 5 starters wore sequential numbers......
21 - Richardson
22 - Altenberger
23 - Montgomery
24 - Winters
25 - Douglas
I hope the Groce haters are comfortable underneath the rock they are hiding under. Most likely salivating at the thought of an underachieving season so they can return to the surface.
Why would they be hiding under a rock? Let's be honest, Groce still needs to prove it on the court and make the tournament. That really shouldn't be controversial, even with this excellent recruiting class.
Yup. Most are already setting unrealistic expectations for this season, so they can !!!!! and scream and demand action. Thankfully Whitman sees things more clearly than many posters here.
I suspect a sizable minority of these "fans" are just opponents' fans trying to stir up trouble.
This is not meant to say I'm happy with Groce's tenure thus far. I'm most definitely not. But it's also pretty obvious this class is a huge step in the right direction.
With this class of recruits coming in, things would have to go horribly wrong for Whitman to dismiss Groce. I'm not sure that even just missing out on the tournament would do it. Depends on how the program feels come March.
It won't end up #3. Probably in the 10-15 range.
I feel like we're getting the guys we want, but I'm not sure there is an outside perception of heightened expectations from this class that would hand-cuff Whitman.
So far we have (rivals) #24, #77, and #142. Solid.
But we've had better in the past that haven't come with Final Four expectations:
2011 had #39, #58, #59, and #97
2008 had #38, #42, #120, and #128
The only years where I felt an Illini coach clearly earned a temporary immunity card regardless of on-the-court product were Self's haul of Dee, Deron, Augie. And Weber's haul of Richmond, Meyers, and Head.
And class rankings are to be completely ignored. They are utterly meaningless in a world where one program might have double, triple, or more the number of rides to give out as another in a given year.
You look at the overall level of talent in a program. That's the measuring stick.
We've had plenty enough to win with for 6-7 years now, and will continue to do so for the forseeable future.
Here's full game Trent Frazier coverage from the Farm Bureau classic in December of last year. He's #1 in the black uniforms. He had 14 pts on 5 of 18 .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLdfRD1vFmg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLdfRD1vFmg
One more full game. This one Frazier scored 32 on 9-14 shooting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc-JO0k0NOg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc-JO0k0NOg
Joel Goodson
- respect my decision™
Thanks. I like this one much better.
I'm watching the Wellington vs. South Atlanta game right now (the one where Frazier scored 32). South Atlanta went 25-6 last year and made it to the GA state semifinals, so the competition level is respectable. Obviously, Frazier had a great shooting day, but I'm extremely impressed with his all-around game. Notes:
-Outstanding vision. He's a better passer than I expected. Really sees angles well and shares the ball.
-Plays under control. Makes smart basketball plays.
-Nice motor. Always attacking on offense and very engaged on defense - disruptive hands, gets a lot deflections.
-He is not shy as a shooter! Similar to JCL in that he'll pull up if you give him an inch of space. I haven't seen him take one single contested shot, but as soon as a defender goes under a screen or doesn't close out hard enough, the shot is up. Very quick release.
-Definitely has a point guard's pacing and presence. I think he's a John Groce-style PG all the way. He might be a combo in the sense that he can play off the ball as a spot-up shooter, but he's a bonafide lead guard.
-Um, he's really good. I'm going to watch his the other game that TC linked before I make any definitive pronouncements, but this kid seems way underrated.
-He can shoot the heck out of the ball. Going to be a major threat as a shooter coming off ball screens. I think he'll play like DJ Cooper did at Ohio, but he's a better shooter. I think he'll be at minimum a 33-35% 3pt shooter, but wouldn't be surprised by 38-40%. (Note that wing players usually shoot a higher percentage because PGs tend to take more contested shots and bail-out shots. I'd be ecstatic with a consistent 34% outside shooter at PG.)
-Bouncy, gliding athlete with VG quickness. He's not an elite run-jump guy, but he's athletic. Moves like an athlete - looks like a long jumper or a 400m runner.
Negatives: there have to be a few, right?
-Super skinny. Needs to add 15-20 pounds minimum. He might have a hard time holding up defensively. I think he'll finish at the rim okay despite his stature: he's got good hang time and body control, finishes well with either hand, and attacks the basket aggressively.
-Pretty good ball handler, but I think he'll turn it over too much initially. A little high and loose with his dribble. He's clearly not used to being guarded by B1G-caliber defenders who have pterodactyl wingspans and elite reaction time.
Frazier might take a year in the program to adjust physically, but as a sophomore I think he'll be a contributor. Could be a special player at
-Outstanding vision. He's a better passer than I expected. Really sees angles well and shares the ball.
-Plays under control. Makes smart basketball plays.
-Nice motor. Always attacking on offense and very engaged on defense - disruptive hands, gets a lot deflections.
-He is not shy as a shooter! Similar to JCL in that he'll pull up if you give him an inch of space. I haven't seen him take one single contested shot, but as soon as a defender goes under a screen or doesn't close out hard enough, the shot is up. Very quick release.
-Definitely has a point guard's pacing and presence. I think he's a John Groce-style PG all the way. He might be a combo in the sense that he can play off the ball as a spot-up shooter, but he's a bonafide lead guard.
-Um, he's really good. I'm going to watch his the other game that TC linked before I make any definitive pronouncements, but this kid seems way underrated.
-He can shoot the heck out of the ball. Going to be a major threat as a shooter coming off ball screens. I think he'll play like DJ Cooper did at Ohio, but he's a better shooter. I think he'll be at minimum a 33-35% 3pt shooter, but wouldn't be surprised by 38-40%. (Note that wing players usually shoot a higher percentage because PGs tend to take more contested shots and bail-out shots. I'd be ecstatic with a consistent 34% outside shooter at PG.)
-Bouncy, gliding athlete with VG quickness. He's not an elite run-jump guy, but he's athletic. Moves like an athlete - looks like a long jumper or a 400m runner.
Negatives: there have to be a few, right?
-Super skinny. Needs to add 15-20 pounds minimum. He might have a hard time holding up defensively. I think he'll finish at the rim okay despite his stature: he's got good hang time and body control, finishes well with either hand, and attacks the basket aggressively.
-Pretty good ball handler, but I think he'll turn it over too much initially. A little high and loose with his dribble. He's clearly not used to being guarded by B1G-caliber defenders who have pterodactyl wingspans and elite reaction time.
Frazier might take a year in the program to adjust physically, but as a sophomore I think he'll be a contributor. Could be a special player at
I'm watching the Wellington vs. South Atlanta game right now (the one where Frazier scored 32). South Atlanta went 25-6 last year and made it to the GA state semifinals, so the competition level is respectable. Obviously, Frazier had a great shooting day, but I'm extremely impressed with his all-around game. Notes:
-Outstanding vision. He's a better passer than I expected. Really sees angles well and shares the ball.
-Plays under control. Makes smart basketball plays.
-Nice motor. Always attacking on offense and very engaged on defense - disruptive hands, gets a lot deflections.
-He is not shy as a shooter! Similar to JCL in that he'll pull up if you give him an inch of space. I haven't seen him take one single contested shot, but as soon as a defender goes under a screen or doesn't close out hard enough, the shot is up. Very quick release.
-Definitely has a point guard's pacing and presence. I think he's a John Groce-style PG all the way. He might be a combo in the sense that he can play off the ball as a spot-up shooter, but he's a bonafide lead guard.
-Um, he's really good. I'm going to watch his the other game that TC linked before I make any definitive pronouncements, but this kid seems way underrated.
-He can shoot the heck out of the ball. Going to be a major threat as a shooter coming off ball screens. I think he'll play like DJ Cooper did at Ohio, but he's a better shooter. I think he'll be at minimum a 33-35% 3pt shooter, but wouldn't be surprised by 38-40%. (Note that wing players usually shoot a higher percentage because PGs tend to take more contested shots and bail-out shots. I'd be ecstatic with a consistent 34% outside shooter at PG.)
-Bouncy, gliding athlete with VG quickness. He's not an elite run-jump guy, but he's athletic. Moves like an athlete - looks like a long jumper or a 400m runner.
Negatives: there have to be a few, right?
-Super skinny. Needs to add 15-20 pounds minimum. He might have a hard time holding up defensively. I think he'll finish at the rim okay despite his stature: he's got good hang time and body control, finishes well with either hand, and attacks the basket aggressively.
-Pretty good ball handler, but I think he'll turn it over too much initially. A little high and loose with his dribble. He's clearly not used to being guarded by B1G-caliber defenders who have pterodactyl wingspans and elite reaction time.
Frazier might take a year in the program to adjust physically, but as a sophomore I think he'll be a contributor. Could be a special player at
The bolded are at the top of the list for a PG. Generally a kid either has this qualities of he doesn't. I like Frazier alot and I think he'll contribute alot as a FR.
But not at every position. PG has been a glaring deficiency for a few years now. The team is just now beginning to feel balanced with some depth at each position.
FatGreg said:
Appreciated.
Worth noting: both of these games are well prior to his big blow up this summer. It sounds like he's made big strides since.
Hope so, and hope more so that it is because he is ready, not because we have no other/better option. In 2017, we have yet to see any of our future pgs going against B1G competition. Best case TJL is ready and up to the task and either DM or TF need to be back up.
I was listening to Jay and Tay show yesterday driving home and they were interviewing his current high school coach and he said one of the most interesting parts of the trip up here was the few minutes they got to spend with Fletch. :thumb: Says the kid will work at whatever Fletch instructs.
Says high schools in Florida don't have anyone like Fletch.Watched the game against Greenforest (private school in GA; finished the year ranked #22 in the country according to USA Today). Wellington lost a close game. Frazier scored 14 and didn't look nearly as aggressive. He played off the ball for much of the game for some reason (in the other game he initiated the offense and brought the ball up most of the time). He frequently just passed the ball around the perimeter and didn't move much without the ball. A little disappointing after watching him dominate in the other game.
That said, he missed 4-5 three-pointers that looked by all rights like they were going down. Form was good, ball just rattled in and out. If he'd hit another two shots, he'd have finished with 20. He just wasn't getting the bounces.
Made some excellent passes, attacked the rim a few times off the bounce, made some good hustle plays on defense, still looked like the best player on Wellington. He obviously missed most of his shots and had a few bad turnovers, but still played decently overall. He drained a couple of deeeeep threes and barely missed another rhythm pull-up from about 26 feet.
Overall, he had a so-so game against a team with 6+ D1 prospects. I still saw a lot of good things. I think he'll be a very good player at the B1G level - probably a starter as a Sophomore or Junior and possibly an all-conference candidate before he's done. Conclusion: we have our Point Guard.
That said, he missed 4-5 three-pointers that looked by all rights like they were going down. Form was good, ball just rattled in and out. If he'd hit another two shots, he'd have finished with 20. He just wasn't getting the bounces.
Made some excellent passes, attacked the rim a few times off the bounce, made some good hustle plays on defense, still looked like the best player on Wellington. He obviously missed most of his shots and had a few bad turnovers, but still played decently overall. He drained a couple of deeeeep threes and barely missed another rhythm pull-up from about 26 feet.
Overall, he had a so-so game against a team with 6+ D1 prospects. I still saw a lot of good things. I think he'll be a very good player at the B1G level - probably a starter as a Sophomore or Junior and possibly an all-conference candidate before he's done. Conclusion: we have our Point Guard.