Agreed.
Hate Pitino all you want, but he recognized and pounced on this. 17 and 18 footers are just bad shots. Step back and make it worth your while
2017 Coaching Carousel
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Agreed.
Hate Pitino all you want, but he recognized and pounced on this. 17 and 18 footers are just bad shots. Step back and make it worth your while
Agreed. Average joes at the YMCA who hit open gym twice a week for an hour can hit that shot consistently. Let alone college kids who shoot 1000 a day and practice basketball because it's their job.
If it's preference that's fine. Just don't purposesly mischaracterize it based on your own personal biases. There is literally enough sample for you to legitimately contest without the hyperbolic rhetoric.
Fair enough, and I'm sorry for doing it. :shakehands:
You can be pretty chuck-heavy playing with motion concepts. See Kentucky.
You've gotta either be disciplined and thorough enough to recruit to what you do, flexible enough to modify what you do to fit your players, or a good enough teacher to develop your players into your system.
Cal used to be true motion. Kentucky is way more pick and roll when I watch them though. Probably a mix of ridiculous talent and a little more philosophical shift to the dribble drive motion offense.
Kinda to your point, I think our current personnel really would fit a motion. I was holding out hope on Brad Underwood for this reason until OSU got him.
Unless there's concrete proof of this, I'd prefer it if we didn't make claims like this that are really not based in any concrete proof. I highly doubt he would be employed at VT if those allegations were true.
Hard to find concrete proof in these situations, but the decision to leave was highly unusual.
As far as finding a job if the allegations were true? See Steve Alford coach of UCLA and Pierre Pierce
He said it was his opinion.
Feel free to google it.
Sleepy Floyd
Kicking it with Fat Lever
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Brad underwood is great. Love how they pressure the ball try to deny the next pass. I hate packline we don't stop people off the dribble our 3 point defense has been awful. And we force no turnovers. I prefer ball pressure because you make teams uncomfortable and can push them out of the offense.
How about we compromise. If it is even odds to improve, stay the same, or get worse why would you risk the recruiting class for a 33% chance of success. If you are forced to make a change because of some sort of scandal, then you are on the open market and probably dependent on the attractiveness of the school and salary. Despite what we all may like to think UI does not rank in the top ten of preferred jobs or Self would still be here. That being said the AD must make the best odds choice. I'm saying that I would have my ducks in a row before pulling that trigger. I wondered when Larry Brown was at practices, who invited him. An evaluation of my coach by an expert would be a starting point unless he gets his expertise from this thread. Next he would have evaluated possible candidates in terms of ability and availability. Maybe this is happening now. In any case, I hope his research is better than our arm chair quarterbacks(including me).
Surely you wouldn't, right?
So if our option to replace Groce is someone with a Groce-like resume - say Rob Murphy at Eastern Michigan, a young engaging personality who was a big time recruiter on Jim Boeheim's staff at Syracuse and is 44-43 in the MAC - you don't do it. That's the 33/33/33 scenario.
I think it's reasonable to expect that we'll do better than that. We'll get someone where the chance of improvement exceeds 50/50. But the point ChiefIllini is making is that it's never 100% and it's probably never even 95%. Go get 80% and you're doing very well. Archie Miller is an 80% guy.
Or maybe the better comparison is someone similarly situated to Groce currently rather than Groce circa 2012.
Johnny Jones? Andy Kennedy? Brad Brownell? Tad Boyle and Kevin Willard are probably a little too good. Brownell is probably too good too.
BananaShampoo
Captain 'Paign
- Phoenix, AZ
If it's on Twitter then it's public. People here post links to Twitter all the time. :thumb:
My point is these odds are detetmined by the level of knowledge of the evaluator. For any candidate there will be weak points. You need a plan to cover these by building the staff to fit. A person like Larry Brown would have valuable input. There are probably consulting companies out there with various levels of expertise and contacts. If you make a mistake on the next hire you end up with several years of bad teams and a much worse chance of bringing in a star candidate. My point is that I would rather wait until I can hire the right candidate instead of having an emotional response to the current situation.
That's a great argument for not firing Groce after last season with Whitman just a week into his new job, and one I agreed with at the time and still agree with.
This team could have and should have been good enough to save Groce's job. It still is.
Yup, this is exactly what I was saying. You try to get the odds of success as high as possible, then roll the dice. Money talks, and I feel like Thomas wasn't ready to dig deep into the coffers to get a guy like Shaka (I dont think any amount of money would've brought him here, but I doubt we offered him the kind of money he needed to see.)
The question at this point isn't whether we can get a guy like Lovie (although I dont think one exists right now at in basketball, such a unique situation), but rather if Whitman is willing to spend that kind of cash/has the right connections on/to basketball coaches. It was pointed out somewhere on this board how much less bball makes the University and at the end of the day thats what its all about. I like to believe we would pay a bball coach 3m+ if he was a program changer like Lovie. Getting a guy like that makes losing recruits a moot point; probably even means the odds we keep them are higher.
So while I think Thomas was a guy who would take a 33/33/33 chance to save some cash, I believe Whitman is willing to exchange some of that money for better odds than that.
Your Larry Brown comment gives me a thought: Tim Jankovich?
By all accounts that isn't true.
As I've always said, for programs like Illinois, money isn't the limitation, the ability to attract a coach worth the money is.
It was not one week, it was actually a 1.5 months. Furthermore, it did not prohibit Whitman to make a change and look for football coach even on a shorter timeframe.
I thought Whitman had plenty of reasons to fire Groce last season, disaster of a season (despite injuries) and myriad of off-court problems.
As far as this season, not sure of the argument that people make that "squeeze into the tournament" and all is peaches and cream, Groce receives a multi-year guarantee contract, recruiting foodgates open, etc. I find little difference in those elements even with Groce squeezing into the tournament. As said many times, I am also not sure as others that if we squeeze out of the tournament (and and up at NIT) the outcome may be significant different. I am not claiming that if Groce indeed makes the NIT, he will or will not get fired, he may very well get fired, but I still have doubts that is a such a done deal as others make it out to be.
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Whitman's first day on the job was March 5, the last game of our basketball season was March 11. Obviously Whitman was engaged in courting Lovie before March 5, but that was his first day officially on the job.
And the Lovie thing is just not comparable to what Whitman faces here, on a number of levels. This is going to be a bigger challenge for him.
I wouldn't have been furious if we'd made a move last year, but I both think it was worth it to see what Groce could do with this roster, and it also now puts us in a much stronger position this year.
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