2017 Coaching Carousel

[grandrapidsillini]

Jerrance Howard
Jerrance Howard
Jerrance Howard

He's an established Chicago recruiter, he's coached under Bill Self, he's coached under Larry Brown, he has a degree from Illinois, he's coached for Illinois, he's played for Illinois. I thought Illinois should have hired him instead of Groce, but back then he was unproven as a coach. That isn't the case anymore. He's a perfect fit for the job.

 

[FollowTisdale]

The Pontiff

That was an awesome post.

I really think this coaching hire will make a splash and get the fan base excited again. That 8 o-clock Wednesday night home game to end the season against MSU might only have 10k people in attendance, it's going to be hard to not get excited about a change coming after that.

Put yourself in the recruits shoes. Tilmon has a starting job as a big ten center lined up. Frazier has arguably just as good of a chance as Tilmon has to have a starting job locked up (at least by big ten play). The others... won't have much better options to choose from in April (arguably Frazier is in that group too). The easiest decision for them all to make is to just stick with Illinois, and 18 year olds aren't know for making tough decisions.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

It's good that we're critically examining the likelihood of actually losing these recruits. It's an interesting subject.

But this is the real issue:

Trust me you do not want to see the mess we will have if we fire Grove land staff, then lose all of these recruits. It will be ugly for another 5 years and maybe worse. Just sad.

Understanding how utterly preposterous that is is the key logical hurdle that needs to get jumped over here.

If we hire a decent coach, not a Bill Self, not a superstar, but basically a median-level coach in our expected range of outcomes, and Frazier and Tilmon decide to go elsewhere, we will very possibly be better next year than this year and will very likely be in the tournament in Year 2.

There would be no recruiting class, none, in any coaching transition in which we should anticipate a raft of 3-stars that no other Big Ten schools wanted. We will be filling our scholarships with quality players who fill holes in the roster fit what the new coach wants immediately.

This board needs to calibrate itself to that reality.

There are situations where making a change at head coach means you have to go backwards to go forwards. This is not one of those situations. We're in the market for someone to make our existing roster play closer to its potential, which is not a high bar at the moment.

 

[WesterveltVictoryCigar]

Jerrance Howard
Jerrance Howard
Jerrance Howard

He's an established Chicago recruiter, he's coached under Bill Self, he's coached under Larry Brown, he has a degree from Illinois, he's coached for Illinois, he's played for Illinois. I thought Illinois should have hired him instead of Groce, but back then he was unproven as a coach. That isn't the case anymore. He's a perfect fit for the job.

 

[Calvin]

Player: Season, B1G
Hill: 17.5, 16.2
Morgan: 10.2, 12.0
Abrams: 8.8, 4.3
Thorne: 5.4, 3.6
Tate: 2.7, 1.1


Realistically, their combined season averages come to 40ppg+.

I'm not worried about replacing the points. I want to replace the home losses with wins, the guaranteed road losses with a mix of wins and losses, and the blow-outs with actual basketball games where you can see them trying to get back in it and maybe finish the comeback.

 

[coryfor3]

Agreed. Matta, Marshall, Bennett, Donovan, Stevens, Hoiberg, Snacks, etc is nonsense.

Two other forums I frequent on unrelated topics address this differently. One has sarcastic posts in green font and the other ends sarcastic posts with /s

:crazy: Maybe we use this guy

Hoiberg is not an off the rails idea. If he quits or is fired from the Bulls, he will be looking at going back to college and he's a Midwestern guy. I honestly don't know that he would be the best choice. He'd be coming with a bit of a ding to his reputation after his NBA experience and his recruiting ties to Chicago/St. Louis/Indy don't seem to be extensive- his recruiting history is sort of a mash-up of transfers and guys from all places. But he would be a good representative of the University, bring NBA connections and credibility, etc. If he's looking for a job, it isn't a crazy idea. But UI isn't luring him away from the NBA if there is a job there for him. As for the others, yes, they are non-starter candidates.

 

[golferjohn1970]

Howard is a no go

There is no way that JW is going to hand over the reigns to Howard no chance. He will get a HC with experience like Keatts or Martin that can win more games then Groce with this same team next year and build a future through good recruiting.

 

[illinoisfan11]

Agreed. Matta, Marshall, Bennett, Donovan, Stevens, Hoiberg, Snacks, etc is nonsense.

Two other forums I frequent on unrelated topics address this differently. One has sarcastic posts in green font and the other ends sarcastic posts with /s

:crazy: Maybe we use this guy

I agree that the rest are not happening. However, if the Bulls fire Hoiberg soon, I could see him at least being a possibility, even if it's a small one. He's unlikely to get another NBA head coaching gig after the dumpster fire in Chicago, so if he wants to be a head man again it'll have to be back in college. I think there are more attractive jobs that will be open than Illinois, but who knows? I'm not saying I think he's going to be our guy, but he's the only one on that ridiculous list people have been throwing out that I think could be feasible.

 

[coryfor3]

Jerrance Howard
Jerrance Howard
Jerrance Howard

He's an established Chicago recruiter, he's coached under Bill Self, he's coached under Larry Brown, he has a degree from Illinois, he's coached for Illinois, he's played for Illinois. I thought Illinois should have hired him instead of Groce, but back then he was unproven as a coach. That isn't the case anymore. He's a perfect fit for the job.

 

[CAHALL15]

Jerrance Howard
Jerrance Howard
Jerrance Howard

He's an established Chicago recruiter, he's coached under Bill Self, he's coached under Larry Brown, he has a degree from Illinois, he's coached for Illinois, he's played for Illinois. I thought Illinois should have hired him instead of Groce, but back then he was unproven as a coach. That isn't the case anymore. He's a perfect fit for the job.

What's his coaching record? 0-0? That is the definition of unproven.

I'm sure he's learned things from the other coaches, but he needs to be like Danny Manning (also from KU and NBA player) and coach a non power 5 school first. Heck, even with Manning's 15 year NBA career and time as an assistant under Self he was 38-29 at Tulsa and is 35-45 at Wake Forest. Being an assistant to a good head coach and being a good recruiter does not necessarily equate to being a good head coach (see Groce, John).

 

[Obelix]

What's his coaching record? 0-0? That is the definition of unproven.

I'm sure he's learned things from the other coaches, but he needs to be like Danny Manning (also from KU and NBA player) and coach a non power 5 school first. Heck, even with Manning's 15 year NBA career and time as an assistant under Self he was 38-29 at Tulsa and is 35-45 at Wake Forest. Being an assistant to a good head coach and being a good recruiter does not necessarily equate to being a good head coach (see Groce, John).

Being an assistant to a good head coach does not equate to being a good head coach, but it also does not equate to being a bad one either. Some assistants who got a chance actually did very well, including some big name coaches at big name schools, just that getting the opportunity does not happen as often.

Collins had a 0-0 record as well, as did Pastner, Buzz Williams really had no HC experience (other than a few months at NO) and Marquette surprised everyone naming him HC, Painter had been at SIU months before Purdue named him HC-in-the waiting. Yet, all those are some of the names many are salivating over in this same thread.

So as far as Jerrance, I do not believe that one can say that he will make a bad HC, I actually believe the opposite, but UI has never been a risk-taker, high-risk/high-reward in their hirings, often erring on the conservative side when the big-name pool dries up. So it will not happen.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

I will not have Josh Pastner's name listed among coaching success stories.

Pastner is exactly what I'd expect Jerrance Howard to be like. If that's what you want, suit yourself, it's your funeral.

 

[Obelix]

I will not have Josh Pastner's name listed among coaching success stories.

Pastner is exactly what I'd expect Jerrance Howard to be like. If that's what you want, suit yourself, it's your funeral.

That's not what my post says.

 

[WesterveltVictoryCigar]

I will not have Josh Pastner's name listed among coaching success stories.

Pastner is exactly what I'd expect Jerrance Howard to be like. If that's what you want, suit yourself, it's your funeral.

He's doing a pretty nice job at GT this season. Preseason speculation was whether they'd win any ACC games at all, now they are 5-4 with some nice wins.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

That's not what my post says.

I know. But you referenced him in a positive light.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

He's doing a pretty nice job at GT this season.

Bruce Weber is doing a pretty nice job at KSU this season.

Every dog has his day.

 

[UrbanaIsTheShiz]

We have not only been passed by Northwestern. We've been lapped. Hopefully some other message board somewhere has Groce on their list of coaches they want for 17-18.

 

[cam]

I trust whatever Whitman decides, he has been around Groce daily and he should have a feel if he is the right man. I think Groce can be very successful here and I think the players are coming in that can make that happen, its the top class in the league even without Mark Smith. I hope if he lets him go it is a home run hire like Lovie was. Obviously Groce is responsible for this mess but he has had some terrible luck with the Abrams situation. Two years he can't play and this year he is a shell of his former self. The point guard position is a disaster and therefore the rest of the team is. I think if Melo Trimble is on our team we are probably 6-3 that's how big a difference a top point guard would make . JCL and Finke would be able to get open looks and it all would all look a lot different.

 

[Obelix]

I know. But you referenced him in a positive light.

These are all coaches who got a chance without really head coaching experience and people of this board bring as example of coaches that have had some level of success, not personal favorites, or "big name coaches at big name schools."

Roy Williams got the Kansas job after pretty much 10 years as an assistant. He had no business getting the HC job at Kansas, and Roy has often said that himself. Easier back then to replace the HC at your own school, (e.g., Izzo at MSU), but not get the job at Kansas as an assistant in another school. These are big name coaches, at big name schools (much higher than Illinois) that were unproven at the time of the hiring.

There are many examples of current HCs who got their chance with no HC experience: Collins (Northwestern), Pastner (Memphis), Buzz (Marquette), Fran Martin (Kansas State), Painter (Purdue), etc. Whether they are considered coaches that people like or not is not the point. The point is that being unproven as an assistant does not equate to failure.

 

[cam]

Huh?!

Which part do you not agree with 6-3? Are you saying a top point guard wouldn't make a big difference?

 

[Ransom Stoddard]

These are all coaches who got a chance without really head coaching experience and people of this board bring as example of coaches that have had some level of success, not personal favorites, or "big name coaches at big name schools."

Roy Williams got the Kansas job after pretty much 10 years as an assistant. He had no business getting the HC job at Kansas, and Roy has often said that himself. Easier back then to replace the HC at your own school, (e.g., Izzo at MSU), but not get the job at Kansas as an assistant in another school. These are big name coaches, at big name schools (much higher than Illinois) that were unproven at the time of the hiring.

There are many examples of current HCs who got their chance with no HC experience: Collins (Northwestern), Pastner (Memphis), Buzz (Marquette), Fran Martin (Kansas State), Painter (Purdue), etc. Whether they are considered coaches that people like or not is not the point. The point is that being unproven as an assistant does not equate to failure.

I agree overall with your points, but Painter was the HC at SIU prior to Purdue, and was promoted from an assistant when Weber left to come to UIUC.

 

[Second and Chalmers]

The point is that being unproven as an assistant does not equate to failure.

I agree with this, but I would also add that not all assistants are created equal.

The book on Howard is that he's really just an ace recruiter and a clappy guy good-cop-in-chief, with little actual strategic basketball responsibility.

I have no idea to what extent that's true. But that's something you find out through a search process, and to the extent that is true, you don't hand the reins of something as big as Illinois to someone whose experience is that limited.

You look at the list of coaches who have gone from assistants at one high major program directly to head coaches at another, it's basically all Dukies.

Tommy Amaker to Seton Hall, Quin Snyder to Mizzou, Johnny Dawkins to Stanford, Chris Collins to Northwestern, Steve Wojciechowski to Marquette.

Roy to Kansas is the only other one I can think of.

 

[Obelix]

I agree overall with your points, but Painter was the HC at SIU prior to Purdue, and was promoted from an assistant when Weber left to come to UIUC.

Yes, and mentioned in my post explicitly. But that was not the basis for naming him the HC.

Buzz Williams really had no HC experience (other than a few months at NO) and Marquette surprised everyone naming him HC, Painter had been at SIU months before Purdue named him HC-in-the waiting

http://www.illinoisloyalty.com/Forums/showpost.php?p=1270856&postcount=3318

 

[Poe's Law]

These are all coaches who got a chance without really head coaching experience and people of this board bring as example of coaches that have had some level of success, not personal favorites, or "big name coaches at big name schools."

Roy Williams got the Kansas job after pretty much 10 years as an assistant. He had no business getting the HC job at Kansas, and Roy has often said that himself. Easier back then to replace the HC at your own school, (e.g., Izzo at MSU), but not get the job at Kansas as an assistant in another school. These are big name coaches, at big name schools (much higher than Illinois) that were unproven at the time of the hiring.

There are many examples of current HCs who got their chance with no HC experience: Collins (Northwestern), Pastner (Memphis), Buzz (Marquette), Fran Martin (Kansas State), Painter (Purdue), etc. Whether they are considered coaches that people like or not is not the point. The point is that being unproven as an assistant does not equate to failure.

Painter was head coach at SIU for a season.

By definition every head coach is a first time head coach at some point, no? It's very rare to get that chance at an upper echelon school (debatable if Illinois qualifies at this point), without being an assistant at that school first. I'd say Roy Williams is probably the only one I can think of, so we can agree that it doesn't happen often.

 

[LincolnIlliniFan]

Which part do you not agree with 6-3? Are you saying a top point guard wouldn't make a big difference?

I'm saying even with Russell Westbrooke, this team would still not have a coach that has any idea of how to run an offense. Let alone, learn how to play any sort of defense. Talent isn't their problem, its not being coached.