Illini Basketball 2018-2019

Status
Not open for further replies.
#926      
This is very true. But like, let's be real here. Take Hamilton, Liberty, Small and Battle off of that team and replace them with Doug Altenberger, Bruce Douglas, Frank Williams and Dee Brown. A per-player talent level just as good if not higher.

That team probably doesn't even make the tournament. They'd give up 110 a game in the circa-89 Big Ten, maybe more. The game of basketball cannot be played without guys that can guard post players and contest shots at the rim.

But man that team would sure be fun to watch :)
 
#927      
I refuse to believe this is a normal transfer. If he didn't like Underwood, he would have left awhile ago imo. This is pretty late in the ball game.

Perhaps. As another poster put it, you want your coach to be a guy that players want to follow, to the point that they're willing to run through walls for them. Maybe the stated reason guys like Black, Finke, and Ebo are leaving is because they want to start making money in the Euro pros now, or play ball with their little brother, or they want to go somewhere where they'll feel more connected with the other guys. Looking at each one individually, you can make an argument that it's about extenuating circumstances. But taken as a whole, it suggests that playing for Underwood at Illinois is not much of a draw, that guys aren't that interested in going to battle for him. And this last recruiting cycle seems to reinforce that, at least with the bigs.

Now, the situation seems different with the guards and wings for some reason. So there's certainly hope. I would love nothing more than to see them find the perfect Sr. transfer and for Kane to replicate what Ebo did last year. If we can get serviceable play at 5, I think we're in for a surprisingly good year. But right now, this team has a glaring hole at that position, which is a real shame given how strong we are from positions 1 through 3.
 
#929      
I see a lot of people underselling Ebo.

Let's look at his per 40 numbers in conference, and compare them to Egwu's per 40 in conference, as a lot of posters (myself included) have stated how much they'd love to have an Egwu on this team:

Ebo Frosh: FG% .551 // TRB 9.2 // Asst 1.0 // STL 1.4 // BLK 1.4 // Pts 8.2
Egwu Frosh: FG% .500 // TRB 5.6 // Asst .2 // STL 0.0 // BLK 1.9 // Pts 6.8
Egwu Soph: FG% .478 // TRB 7.7 // Asst .7 // STL 1.0 // BLK 2.2 // Pts 10.6
Egwu JR: FG% .391 // TRB 8.6 // Asst .7 // STL 0.4 // BLK 2.8 // Pts 8.7
Egwu SR: FG% .382 // TRB 8.0 // Asst 1.3 // STL 1.6 // BLK 2.3 // Pts 7.1

In conference play, Ebo had an ORtg of 116.6 and DRtg of 111.2, which is better than any combined rating that Egwu had. Would Ebo's per 40 numbers go down if given more minutes, perhaps. But Ebo played more minutes than Egwu did his freshman year and put up better numbers.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/greg-eboigbodin-1.html
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/nnanna-egwu-1.html

So Underwood actually got more out of the consensus 510th ranked player than Weber got out of the consensus 78th ranked player? I am actually surprised. This reinforces Eboigbodin's comment that he was happy with basketball and the decision was about his personal life. No one knows the exact reason he wants to relocate, so speculation based on lack of information is really pointless.

This also gives me encouragement that the staff knows what they are doing and should be able to develop Giorgi Bezhanishvili (365) and Samba Kane (278).
 
Last edited:
#930      
So Underwood actually got more out of the consensus 510th ranked player than Weber got out of the consensus 78th ranked player? I am actually surprised. This reinforces Eboigbodin's comment that he was happy with basketball and the decision was about his personal life. No one knows the exact reason he wants to relocate, so speculation based on lack of information is really pointless.

This also gives me encouragement that the staff knows what they are doing and should be able to develop Giorgi Bezhanishvili (365) and Samba Kane (278).

Strongly agree with you on that point. And I really hope Samba and Giorgi stay long enough for us to see them develop over multiple years with this staff.
 
#931      
Long post ahead, hodgepodge of ideas on how to try to be competitive...

4 out: Trent, Ayo, Damonte, Kipper, AJ, AG, Tev, Feliz

High post: Kane, Giorgi, Kip, Damonte (has some feel to his game that make me want to see him try it)

Matchup fun high post: Trent, Ayo, Feliz

Offensively: If our guys can hit open 3s this year, I will not be concerned as much offensively. This offense can function at a very high level with 5 guards which at this point is our best offensive lineup. I think you start with Kipper manning the high post till we switch out for favorable matchups. Why Ayo, Feliz and Trent? Getting your best players the ball in that spot is very difficult to guard. You put an aggressive scorer in there like Trent, or crafty finisher (Ayo) or facilitator (Feliz), and you can hurt some teams. Again, gotta hit the open 3s those looks can create, which can be possible because with 5 guards on the court, you’re not sacrificing a perimeter spot to expose a matchup at the high post. If Kane or Giorgi are in you’re a little more traditional and hope to get what you can. Probably some lobs to samba and some good facilitating from giorgi.

Defensively: This is where it gets creative and crazy, but mostly crazy. If I’m BU I’m offense/defense with my bigs literally the entire game. They’re not ready to help enough on offense and the worst thing that could happen at this point is an offensive foul. I’m also playing a lot of zone to save them from themselves as defensive freshman bigs. I realize that strategy is insane and not doable vs good shooters, but it’s the bed were sleeping in right now. Man when you have to. Play out full possessions all man or all zone at times, and at others in late shot clock switch zone to man or man to zone as a wrinkle to help kill those last 10 seconds. Hope to confuse the other team or make them stagnant.

If we’re in live action with 5 guards on defense I go full on Press Virginia. Speed it up like crazy and let those guys do what guards do. Hope the other team craps their pants and get a couple fast break dunks and 3s if you’re lucky. We’re gonna give up half court layups in that setup anyway, so there’s really not much difference in giving up layups off pressing if we can keep tempo and force a few turnovers. There’s enough depth to at guard to do it in spurts until you can get a big in for set defense.

The strength of our team is obviously the perimeter and by default as well, perimeter depth. Nothing about this ideal, but I figured I’d throw some ideas for fun and to be more constructive.
 
#932      
If I’m BU I’m offense/defense with my bigs literally the entire game.

giphy.gif


It is an idea that addresses the issue, that much I will grant you.
 
#933      
Basketball dynamics have changed since then, but most importantly, there was a huge influx of talent back then that led to the 1989 team. Lowell Hamilton was a McD AA, so was Anderson, and Liberty. Extremely highly rated, and Illinois also added Kenny Battle arguably the best PF in Illinois history.

Same as with Lon Kruger's turnaround form 99-89 to 89-90. Illinois brought in 3 McD AAs in Frank Williams, Brian Cook, and Marcus Griffin (via JUCO) in addition to supplemental talent.

Height is not the issue, it is also the skillset for playing a position (Hamilton was undersized but had the skillset) and also pure talent level that can mask positional deficiencies. We have nowhere that level of talent coming in, not even in the same stratosphere. Yes, if we start landing multiple McD AAs all of a sudden in recruiting, the mood will chance around here, and it should.


Pretty tough case for Mr Battle to the best Illini 4 of all time. Heck, he wasn't even the best one named, "Kenny." Compare his numbers to Ken Norman. Except for steals his predecessor comes out well ahead. If you can count either Brian Cook or Deion Thomas as a power forward the issue is even less clear.
 
#934      
Long post ahead, hodgepodge of ideas on how to try to be competitive...

4 out: Trent, Ayo, Damonte, Kipper, AJ, AG, Tev, Feliz

High post: Kane, Giorgi, Kip, Damonte (has some feel to his game that make me want to see him try it)

Matchup fun high post: Trent, Ayo, Feliz

Offensively: If our guys can hit open 3s this year, I will not be concerned as much offensively. This offense can function at a very high level with 5 guards which at this point is our best offensive lineup. I think you start with Kipper manning the high post till we switch out for favorable matchups. Why Ayo, Feliz and Trent? Getting your best players the ball in that spot is very difficult to guard. You put an aggressive scorer in there like Trent, or crafty finisher (Ayo) or facilitator (Feliz), and you can hurt some teams. Again, gotta hit the open 3s those looks can create, which can be possible because with 5 guards on the court, you’re not sacrificing a perimeter spot to expose a matchup at the high post. If Kane or Giorgi are in you’re a little more traditional and hope to get what you can. Probably some lobs to samba and some good facilitating from giorgi.

Defensively: This is where it gets creative and crazy, but mostly crazy. If I’m BU I’m offense/defense with my bigs literally the entire game. They’re not ready to help enough on offense and the worst thing that could happen at this point is an offensive foul. I’m also playing a lot of zone to save them from themselves as defensive freshman bigs. I realize that strategy is insane and not doable vs good shooters, but it’s the bed were sleeping in right now. Man when you have to. Play out full possessions all man or all zone at times, and at others in late shot clock switch zone to man or man to zone as a wrinkle to help kill those last 10 seconds. Hope to confuse the other team or make them stagnant.

If we’re in live action with 5 guards on defense I go full on Press Virginia. Speed it up like crazy and let those guys do what guards do. Hope the other team craps their pants and get a couple fast break dunks and 3s if you’re lucky. We’re gonna give up half court layups in that setup anyway, so there’s really not much difference in giving up layups off pressing if we can keep tempo and force a few turnovers. There’s enough depth to at guard to do it in spurts until you can get a big in for set defense.

The strength of our team is obviously the perimeter and by default as well, perimeter depth. Nothing about this ideal, but I figured I’d throw some ideas for fun and to be more constructive.

Grinnell game plan?
 
#935      
Speed it up like crazy and let those guys do what guards do.

I agree with this - BU is going to have to get creative and putting in a 40 minutes of Heck type of gameplan would make sense this year. Very athletic long armed team that could create a lot of turnovers. I don't think that was his style at SFA or OK St., those teams were more about clogging passing lanes and offensive efficiency.

But, the sign of a good coach is adopting the style based on personnel and this team calls for all out chaos!

Would also be good for recruiting- players like to play in that style.
 
#936      
No! People are not acting like that.

People are alarmed that 1) we will be shockingly thin - talking in terms of just actual rostered players, not even talent - in the frontcourt next year and 2) 3 of the 5 recruits from Underwood’s first class have transferred in one year. It’s one thing for the players you inherit to head for the exits (see Smith, Lovie), and quite another for the guys you are actively choosing to be bailing.

Do you really feel as if Ebo is or would have been a better player than our recruits or even who would possibly get? I mean I dont wanna bash the man he seems to be a good young man I'm sure but outside of 5 feet how many shots did Ebo make and if he did at what percentage? Was he an elite rebounder or free throw shooter that you would trust in late games? The players we have coming in or will have would have jumped him if not right away it wouldnt have been long and he left. He was strong strong man but limited offensively bigtime. I just dont see what all this over reaction is about. I wish him the best but good grief people act like we lost Black or Meyers. Its not even close and shows a lack of faith in our recruits and whether we can attract a transfer that could give us at least what he could have. I have more faith in things I guess and my glass is not half empty. I am not upset at all over this. I think both Kane and Geo showed more ability than he has and we can still add a transfer.
 
#937      
There was talk early on that the staff didn't feel like Ebo was good enough to play here. That talk was leaked on here. This isn't a shock, it isn't a huge loss. We will win more games next year than last. Now you have to expect a tourney run in the 3rd at least the 4th year and if that is not here, bring out your cries and whines.
:thumb::illinois::shield:
 
#938      
When did Ebo get on campus last summer? I know he committed around this time last year. Just curious if he missed the summer, and if Kane can come in ahead of where Ebo was.
 
#939      
Did Kane come in last week and scare the daylights out of Ebo? Maybe they moved the treadmill closer to the purse check outside the locker room? Just asking, seems we looking for reasons why a guy who took up basketball 5 years ago, has decided he wants to leave something he totally loved last year at this time. Was it time commitment, effort , and attitude? This guy was not highly recruited gang, UIC and William and Mary were is offers, committed to UIC because of Chin, then left because of same. Not sure BU can be blamed for his change of heart, but you damn well bet BU made him change his mind. Either you will play his way, or you will not play. We will get another big, I'm sure with a bit of effort, he fit right in and replace Ebo just fine.;):illinois:

No kidding! 100%! Black is the one person wexwill miss by the time B10 gets here and who knows we may have another surprise like TF
 
#940      
I like where the program is headed. Ayo is the best recruit since Dee Brown. Samba Kane is a true 7 footer and Tevian Jones is 6'6" wing, not to mention the best PG in JC Andres Feliz. This team is so far ahead of last year it is not funny. Look at the positives. This team will be better than last year and next years class could feature another 5 star. When was the last time the Illini landed back to back 5 star players ? I cannot remember any since Lou Henson days. Keep the faith. :thumb::illinois::thumb:
And if AF, TF, or even Geo are left open from 3 or at the line they are much more likely to make it I am over having players that cant shoot the ball other than a dunk or put back and cant make a free throw over 70%.
 
#941      
Well Ebo is young, long, athletic big man who can run the floor. Maybe a bit of a project but one selected by the new guy running things. It isn't like Greg was someone else's recruit and Underwood didn't think he was a fit for his system. Ebo is a guy picked by BU. And it doesn't sound like BU was happy about him leaving.

Just getting caught up on Loyalty, so forgive if this has already been shared. Did you see a BU interview posted somewhere about Ebo leaving?
 
#942      
Maybe there are transfers coming in that Ebo didn't want to challenge for minutes.
 
#944      
Maybe there are transfers coming in that Ebo didn't want to challenge for minutes.

This or Kane might just be a lot better than he is. Replacing ebo is not difficult, improving ,on? Maybe but not impossible. Let's see where Ebo ends up, that might be the big indicator of what the hell actually was the real reason. Let's see where he transfers, if anywhere at all.;):cool:
 
#945      
I think it's going to be very likely we already have a better 5 than Ebo with all due respect...and will get another.. What is it he is so good at exactly?

Maybe Kane is better than Ebo. I certainly hope so. But Kane isn't going to play 30 minutes, much less 40. We have a gaping void at the 5. I'm not flipping out, but our staff needs to fill that void rather quickly. I'm hopeful that they will do just that.
 
#946      
I think it's going to be very likely we already have a better 5 than Ebo with all due respect...and will get another.. What is it he is so good at exactly?

My guess is you're right. Might not be who everyone thinks but I expect 2 of the 3 scholarships spots will be filled.
 
#947      
Just showing an example of small ball that worked. Not comparing this team to the flying Illini, but who knows? Just trying to be positive at this point.

Not small at the guards. In fact I'd have to think if we played a team with a taller backcourt or longer arms.
 
#948      
Saw on Instagram that we’re playing a B1G opponent at the UC...? Sorry, but I’m not a fan. “More tickets sold” literally only helps us if it’s Illini fans, at least in Chicago.
 
#949      
Stellar? I think we watched 2 different players! I liked Ebo, was excited to see what he was going to do this year, but I seriously doubt his play wouldn't be duplicated with any above average big player. He has decided to transfer, which means he will no longer play here. He was not an outstanding player, might be, but not on this team. Last year was only the 6year he played basketball, he has family living in another country, and I don't think his desire was in it. Let's see where he transfers to.:hand::illinois:

All you have to do is look at his numbers. For a freshman big, they were very impressive. As I mentioned before, Ebo’s advanced metrics were better than Egwu’s in his best year. Why do you think that is?

I’ll take the numbers over your eye test. And I’ll bet my beach house against yours that neither Samba nor Giorgi have a better avg ORtg and DRtf this year than Ebo did last year.
 
#950      
Maybe Kane is better than Ebo. I certainly hope so. But Kane isn't going to play 30 minutes, much less 40. We have a gaping void at the 5. I'm not flipping out, but our staff needs to fill that void rather quickly. I'm hopeful that they will do just that.

Hopefully Georgi can give us 15-20 mpg at the 5. I don't see him getting into a ton of foul trouble but I don't see him being a better defender than that chair that replaced Matic.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back