Ohio State 87, Illinois 81 Postgame

[GalloppingGost]

Ha!
All those kids have had a field day against Illinois. From Liddell to the three that choose Missouri. At this point I must say they made the right choice. All three of those kids that chose Missouri have never lost to Illinois, I believe.
Maybe once, but I don’t think so.

AH!!!! This game. Where to begin. I am going to go off so watch out!

First off let me say this. This is not a final four team. Not even close! This isn’t a sweet sixteen team.
Let’s start with coaching.
For the life of me, I don’t see really any offense.
None. I see the same up top weave and stand flat footed around the parameter. One time, once! I saw Adam Miller break towards the basket instead of stand around the parameter and he was passed the ball fir a wide open lay up. I about fell off my chair!!
I said: SOMEONE ACTUALLY BROKE TOWARDS THE BASKET!!! Omg!

straight up. This offense SUCKS! Whatever it is.
We don’t have good shooters and all they want to do is hover around that goddamn three point line. THEY CANT SHOOT!

and before anyone mentions D. Williams percentage, he shoots two or theee a game.
We don’t drive well to the basket.
Ayo does. But he is about it. Furbelows can but he is too small to finish.
Kofi, had a terrible game. He literally can’t make a free throw. So, if he gets fouled and does get the FG then it almost certain he will miss one out of two. Liddell lit him up!!!!
He had atleast four three until I just stopped watching. That was also poor coaching.
Kofi can’t guard a skilled 6’8 player out by the three. He will either drive by him or do what Liddell did. Kofi cannot keep bring the ball down by his waist when he gets it.
The kid has terrible hands and he gets it knocked away constantly.
Adams, Williams, Frazier had there typical blah game. If these three can’t combine for atleast 20/25 points, Illinois has little chance. It can’t come all from Ayo and Kofi.
I get sick and tired of hearing about practices.
This team just needs to listen to their own hype from the beginning of the season. How it was big ten championship and national championship or bust. Well boys right now it’s a BUST!

mid you can’t get up for games with a bunch of players from your own day state that spurned you during their recruitment. If you can’t get up for that. You don’t deserve to win!
If you can’t get up for a National televised big ten game at HOME. You don’t deserve to win.

this team is no where near the ‘05 or ‘89 teams. They had way more heart. More skill. More desire, and better coaching!

Outside of actually installing a workable offense of some kind for the players he has, I don’t know what else to say. The offense sucks’. Relies way too much on 3 point shooting. I challenge anyone to watch the replay and watch how often they are just standing behind the three point line waiting for a pass! It’s maddening to watch.
Last I checked the entire point of basketball is to get a ball through a hoop. The closer you can get to the hoop the higher the percentage is of you getting it in the hoop. Pretty simple.
Yet we hover around the three point line shooting and missing one shot. While the opponent grabs the long rebound, starts a fast break and gets an easy 2 or fouled.
This offense needs to be high pick and rolls, multi screens, and constant movement.
Not this bull!!!! weave or spreading out on the 3 point line.
getting to the basket opens up the three.
Well enough. I have said all I need to.
I don’t know how you motivate this group. But it certainly isn’t as good of a team as we thought.
If I was getting paid $3 million dollars a year or whatever Underwood makes I would expect more from myself! I really have a hard time seeing what his plan is offensively.
Well they better figure it out and this point they shouldn’t be ranked. Good job boys. Lose at home, again, to another former recruit who proved he made the right decision.
Embarrassing!

 

[illini80]

https://www.si.com/college/illinois...ate-87-illinois-81-jan-16-2021-brad-underwood

 

[GallopingGhost]

I wonder what changes. Not sarcasm. Really would like to see some shakeup but no idea what. Can’t bench Kofi. More GB minutes? Start grandison over DMFW? Maybe. Start Curbelo? I think we can shelve that idea. Truly a perplexing team.

He has said in another interview somewhere that he pushes Kofi because he knows he can when he won’t push himself . And he responds to that. I doubt the way to get the best out of Kofi is benching him. But I could see grandison getting in the starting lineup. Whatever doesn’t get us in 15 pt holes

 

[Deleted member 186590]

Effort and intensity for 40 minutes. Didn’t do it and lost again.

As a side note, how are we 3/3 on being on the wrong side of flagrant situations?

I agree- that was astonishing they didn’t call the flagrant when Miller got hit in the face- I don’t even think it should have been a flagrant but the Kofi flagrant against Missouri was such a joke and we were told the officials have to call it if there is any contact to the head - there was clear contact to Miller’s head. I would love to hear that explanation

 

[Deleted member 186590]

Watching EJ hit OPEN shot after open shot in the first half and not adjusting is all on our coach

This- BU is one of the worst coaches I have ever seen in literally not doing anything in game- he has two defenses, two! At least try to make an adjustment on EJ when it’s clear asking Kofi to guard him is unfair. Switch to a zone for goodness sake or a box and one and follow EJ around, you just can’t let one guy beat you and we did absolutely nothing about it

 

[CurbeloYourEnthusiasm]

We were a 7/8 seed level team last year. This year, if Curbelo isn’t that X factor that raises our level, then our team is worse. Because Griffin/Feliz > Miller.

Ayo, Kofi,Giorgi, Frazier are the same. Damonte shooting 65% 3 probably an anomaly.

Basically we need Curbelo to be a star if we want to make the Final 4. If he’s not a star, then we’re worse than last year

 

[illinitiger]

I'm optimistic that after the intervention that BU said will happen today (intense meetings) that things will be better against PSU. My concern is that he watched multiple "bad" practices after Maryland without initiating an intervention before OSU game. Players need a "fight for our lives" approach from opening tip of every game.

 

[CurbeloYourEnthusiasm]

This- BU is one of the worst coaches I have ever seen in literally not doing anything in game- he has two defenses, two! At least try to make an adjustment on EJ when it’s clear asking Kofi to guard him is unfair. Switch to a zone for goodness sake or a box and one and follow EJ around, you just can’t let one guy beat you and we did absolutely nothing about it

Underwood’s always been a system coach. Not an Xs and Os game to game or half to half adjustment coach. We saw it first 2 years where our defense approach never changed. It was “force turnovers, play physical” no matter what and if we get burned so be it. Some games it would work, most games it didn’t, but it never changed. Then last year they changed the system to “no fouls, don’t try for turnovers” and we went way the other way. But it’s just a system. We play the same way game to game and it has to make us easy to gameplan against.

 

[TCTORNADO]

Congrats to Kofi, he now leads the NCAA this year with 10 double/doubles.

 

[illiram11]

We are either going to get mad and make the final 4, or have a disastrous 1st round and lose to the likes of Bradley or Pepperdine in the 1st round of the tourney. There's really no in-between for this team. They are as good, or as bad, as they want to be. I wish we still had someone with the heart of Feliz to help bring us back.

 

[TCTORNADO]

From yesterday's game, Ayo and Curbelo tied for the worst +/-, each had a -9. Ugh

 

[TCTORNADO]

Underwood’s always been a system coach. Not an Xs and Os game to game or half to half adjustment coach. We saw it first 2 years where our defense approach never changed. It was “force turnovers, play physical” no matter what and if we get burned so be it. Some games it would work, most games it didn’t, but it never changed. Then last year they changed the system to “no fouls, don’t try for turnovers” and we went way the other way. But it’s just a system. We play the same way game to game and it has to make us easy to gameplan against.

Underwood has never been known as a good in game coach. I just hope his poor substitution pattern does not reach that of John Groce's.

 

[DICKnaggie]

My biggest concern is after Kofi missed those 2 flagrant free throws, he hung his head and not one of his teammates came to pick him up. Could be nothing, but to me it is alarming.

Ya, it's in his head for sure. His new mantra should be, "head high, ball high".

 

[EyeoftheIllini]

Curbelo is so reckless with the ball. I know some people like him so much already because of how great he will be they can't admit he's a detriment at times. He wastes so many possessions even when they aren't turnovers and that is magnified in losses like this when you need good possessions consistently to get back into the game. Giorgi is so lazy with his crappy one arm passes that always lead to turnovers. I want to see Ayo get in these dudes grill about this sloppy play. They don't listen to BU evidently. I feel bad for Ayo, he had big plans this year and the freshman aren't doing nearly as much as we hoped and Kofi seems to have gone backwards. At least he made free throws last year once Big Ten Play started. Giorgi looked better earlier in the year but he is back to being nothing but turnovers and fouls. So hard to watch. Hopefuly we turn it around cause we all see what this team could be. Also Miller has to figure out a way to score that doesn't involve a wide open look from behind the arc.

Not sure where you’re getting Kofi has gone backwards? Yes, his FT% is down and his TOs are slightly up, but ppg, rpg and FG% are all up. His defense might be down slightly, though I tend to concentrate on other players on D do that might not be the case. Maybe he hasn’t progressed as much as we’d like, but gone backwards? I don’t think so.

Also strange game after which to pick on Giorgi given he had only one foul and one TO, and scored 9 points. No doubt though that he has been inconsistent and seems to have gone into a mental funk in several games.

 

[Wade]

My thoughts:

- People have underestimated losing Feliz. He was a bulldog offense and defense and made this team what it was last year. We've basically replaced him and Griffin with 2 freshman. That's a net negative for us.

- We will go as far as curbelo and Miller take us. We need at least one of them to play well for us to win. Curbelo hasn't played well the last couple games. Mainly because teams are going under screens and daring him to shoot. So we lost. Miller has been a disappointment all year. He simply isn't efficient on offense. He lacks the talent to drive and finish. Jacking 3's and only making 30% at most against real competition isn't cutting it.

- Kofi has to make free throws. Teams are going to hack a Kofi until he starts to make them.

- We need a lineup change just for sake of change. I say start grandison at the 4 and give him more minutes. Move Monte to the 3 and decrease miller's minutes.

-ayo has to be more aggressive at the start instead of "letting the game come to him"

The season is not lost. I think we will be better at the end of the year. But freshmen have to be better.

 

[the juiceman cometh]

We are either going to get mad and make the final 4, or have a disastrous 1st round and lose to the likes of Bradley or Pepperdine in the 1st round of the tourney. There's really no in-between for this team. They are as good, or as bad, as they want to be. I wish we still had someone with the heart of Feliz to help bring us back.

I actually think it is way more likely this team loses in the 2nd round than makes the Final Four.

 

[EyeoftheIllini]

I think too many people on here overestimated how good this team was from the beginning. Before the season started, I wrote that I thought the team was a top 25 team, but I had seen nothing to show they were a Final Four team. Of course multiple posters offered up the preseason polls as proof they were. They weren’t then and they aren’t now. They had the potential to be a Final Four team and I still think they do, but got to show it on the court.

 

[the juiceman cometh]

I think too many people on here overestimated how good this team was from the beginning. Before the season started, I wrote that I thought the team was a top 25 team, but I had seen nothing to show they were a Final Four team. Of course multiple posters offered up the preseason polls as proof they were. They weren’t then and they aren’t now. They had the potential to be a Final Four team and I still think they do, but got to show it on the court.

Final Four was a bit of a stretch, but given the way this team was playing at the end of last season, the lack of attrition (I know, Griffin/Feliz, but in college sports terms, where turnover is a given, we lost a lot less than most), and the expected improvement of 2 impact underclassmen returning, I don't think it was unreasonable to expect a top 10 team or a top 3 Big 10 team. It certainly wasn't unreasonable to expect improvement over last season.

 

[pruman91]

After wading through 9 pages of the same stuff that always comes out after a loss I am glad I waited until today to post....

1. Feliz is gone..so is griffin....so is Jones....etc......Those players have no bearing on how we play this year....
2. Another game, another big hole to climb out of...The maryland loss was disturbing ...they wanted it more and got it...same can be said about this game against tosu......why do we start games or second halves so lethargic ? the only game i can remember where we dominated from the opening tip or second half possession was against the mildcats....
3. Is Brad upset ? Ha !....his blood pressure had to be 300/150 during that presser as he was short with almost all of his answers....Love to be a fly on the wall during the announced meetings today....
4. does it matter who starts ?....I want the 5 best players who " want it " more than the other team starting...period.....these lackadaisical starts to a game or second half with the talent we have has perplexed me more than almost anything else...teams are going to have good and bad spurts of play, but the effort HAS to be there for the full 40 minutes and it hasn't been there as consistent as it needs to be.
5. Where do we go from here ? 2 straight home court losses in the B1G seriously dampens my expectations for the rest of the season....we should qualify for the NCAA tourney, but what team shows up ?
6. the refs were a determining factor in the game...the shoulder to the head of Adam M. WAS a flagrant foul, just as much as Kofi's flagrant foul called against misery and others we have had called against us ....no question in my mind....The inbounds play where Young ran around the sideline was a travel as it occured AFTER a timeout and the rules state that...the non call on the osu player being out of bounds occured AFTER he took 3 steps and clearly travelled.
Borosky and the midget ref are as awful as DJ bald head ref and need to be fired for being piss poor at their jobs....
7. psu on tuesday (maybe)....do we win or have a 3 game home court losing streak.....I REALLY DON'T HAVE A CLUE ...kinda like the way we play at the start of games or second halves....Sorry, but JMHO

 

[Cook]

Underwood’s always been a system coach. Not an Xs and Os game to game or half to half adjustment coach. We saw it first 2 years where our defense approach never changed. It was “force turnovers, play physical” no matter what and if we get burned so be it. Some games it would work, most games it didn’t, but it never changed. Then last year they changed the system to “no fouls, don’t try for turnovers” and we went way the other way. But it’s just a system. We play the same way game to game and it has to make us easy to gameplan against.

I've suggested before, but he should pay for some consulting from someone like Beilein. Makes me wonder what sort of expert mentoring and performance reviews happen for major sport HCs. I bet none, but they should. Every game, coaches could get a full retrospective specific to their coaching performance and decisions from someone they value and respect.

 

[Ken]

We were a 7/8 seed level team last year. This year, if Curbelo isn’t that X factor that raises our level, then our team is worse. Because Griffin/Feliz > Miller.

Ayo, Kofi,Giorgi, Frazier are the same. Damonte shooting 65% 3 probably an anomaly.

Basically we need Curbelo to be a star if we want to make the Final 4. If he’s not a star, then we’re worse than last year

The team overachieved last year and the only returning player that has taken a real step is Ayo .

Miller is supposedly a lights out shooter but how many pin downs and other plays do you see designed to get him shots ? The team doesn't even play like they consider him a shooter looking to make that extra play or pass to get him a look like you see on other top teams .

Underwoods system is supposed to be guard friendly but DmW and Trent are so limited offensively at this point that when you add in the mandate to make the limited Kofi a focal point it magnifies all of their weaknesses .

Curbelo can only help this team so much because his style of play cant make up for the limited skills of the other big minute getters . The fact that we run 3 of the worst offensive players in the college basketball in our starting 5 puts him in a tough spot .

Can he enter the game and find the shooters ? what shooters ?!!

Can he come in and find the cutters or finishers ?! what cutters and finishers besides Ayo ? Kofi ?

He runs the system and we end up at the mercy of the limited offensive talents of DmW, Trent, and Kofi

He plays off his natural ability and regardless of outcome nobody wants to put up with freshman mistakes .

At a certain point questions are gonna need to be asked and answered because as we have seen you have Tevian Jones and Alan Griffith showing they can contribute more on the court than they were seemingly allowed to do here yet we are still running Trent Frazier out onto the floor talking about remember his freshmen year ?

 

[Fighter of the Nightman]

I have a few comments based on various posts I have seen in this thread and a day of reflection/clarity:

- We were not going to be an 8-seed last year. We finished as the 4-seed in one of the toughest conferences in the country, and we were 21-10 overall. Yes, we had bad losses early on to Miami (FL) and Mizzou, and our NET was not fantastic (#39). However, I maintain that the NET is used as a guideline, especially for teams on the Bubble. If you are a major conference team that is solidly in the Tournament (i.e., well above #50 or so), other more "human" factors are going to come into play that they're allegedly not supposed to consider, like how you finished the season, your AP ranking and other things like that. We had some nice Quad 1 wins, including over #23 Wisconsin on the road, TWICE vs. #24 Michigan, and a plethora of Quad 2 wins, including vs. #30 Rutgers, TWICE vs. #32 Purdue, vs. #34 Iowa, a road win vs. #35 Penn State and vs. #42 Minnesota. Considering they had logistical concerns like not having us face a regular season opponent until the Sweet Sixteen and not wanting to screw over a higher seed with a Second Round matchup vs. a hot Illini team ranked #21 ... and considering that the way we were playing, a BTT run (including AT LEAST another win over Iowa, if we kept it up) would not have been out of the question ... I think we were cruising for a 6-seed or a 5-seed, with a 4-seed on the table, depending on the BTT.

- To say we have not played like a "top 15 team" yet this season is both false and undermining of just how frustrating our lapses have been. Minnesota has beaten #5 Iowa, and they just handily beat an undefeated #7 Michigan team yesterday. We D-E-S-T-R-O-Y-E-D them, with the game never being in doubt and our Illini showing very few weaknesses. That was not like the second half of the NU game, where our outstanding play was combined with an inept opponent; we just simply outclassed what proved to be a very capable Minnesota team. Additionally, whatever you think about Duke, they're a talented team ... and we went into their house when they DESPERATELY needed a win (prime time Challenge game at home after just being beaten by another Big Ten team on that very floor a few days ago??), and we took every punch they gave us and responded. Additionally, we fought with what is proving to be a near-unstoppable Baylor squad on a neutral floor until we simply ran out of gas - a result that would be indicative of maybe not a top 5 team (as we were ranked then) but absolutely a top 15 team. Now, we have also played like a Bubble team (vs. Ohio and vs. Maryland) and a mere borderline top 25 team (at Missouri, at Rutgers and vs. OSU), and THAT is the part that is so frutstrating.

I am not giving up hope yet. Maryland was a TRULY disappointing loss that really sounded the alarm bells, and OSU was so disappointing because it COULD have been a *great* win to set us on the right track. With that said, a loss to this year's OSU team isn't going to break anyone. Our concern right now should be what this team is capable of going forweard, not the record it has put together currently. We have one bad loss and two good wins. The rest of our wins and losses are par. So, if we keep that up (a bad loss mixed with a good win mixed with mostly average results), we'll likely skate into the Tournament ranked something like #25 or receiving votes and MAYBE score as high as a 6- or 7-seed if the NET rankings save us.

What is infuriating is that, EVEN NOW, if this team could just turn a corner in regard to mental toughness ... we'd still be set for a top 4-seed and a possible Tournament run. I mean, if we started to play with the toughness of last year's squad, the only "expected" losses left on the schedule, IMO, are vs. Iowa, at Michigan, at Wisconsin and at Ohio State. That would be a 20-9 (13-7) record with some great wins. If we REALLY got it going and played to our true potential, there is no reason we couldn't split those games and STILL fight for a conference title, with a bit of luck and help from other games.

Unfortunately ... if we keep up our current habits - showing up sometimes and playing WELL above average and being more than capable of crapping a game away due to a lethargic "break" - we could easily be looking at an under .500 record in the Big Ten. I hope to God these guys come out fired up to whoop PSU and start making us all feel better, because God knows we need this season as a fan base.

 

[CurbeloYourEnthusiasm]

Trent’s regression since his freshman year is quite troubling. We really miss that alpha dog gunner he was that season. He had the confidence then to go off and get his own. Now, he seems to be in a shell and has been reduced to catch and shoot only when Ayo or Curbelo decides to pass him the ball.

 

[Gregjacksonfan]

I think some of you are being a little harsh on Kofi. He leads the the nation in double doubles. He’s getting hammered every time he touches the ball. Yes he’s struggling with his ft and guarding the perimeter but man I would rather have him on my team any day of the week

 

[O’Malley’s Wall]

This week was a real grinch. Stink, stank, stunk.