Loyola Chicago 71, Illinois 58 Postgame

[WaltJabsco]

Those of you supposed Illini fans should apply for one of the open college coaching jobs. Indiana has not filled their position yet. I learned a long time ago that if the team wins, the team played great, but if there is a loss, blame the coach. This season the team won 24 and Underwood lost 7. I would not trade Underwood for any other coach. He has brought the Illini out of a big hole. Loyola had nothing to lose and a great deal to gain. This tournament has shown it is always more difficult to be the hunted. I wish Loyola well. Porter Moser did a great coaching job but recall that he was a bust at Illinois State.

I'd imagine everyone here gets that without Underwood, the Illini wouldn't have even been there, and most of us are with you on not trading him for any other coach. Still, the Loyola game is a head scratcher. We looked unprepared, and we let a smaller, less athletic team dictate style of play for forty minutes. We played soft, and tentative. That just can't happen during the tournament.

If you've recruited two All Americans and gotten your team to a number 1 seed, that's your year to shine. You can't have the wheels fall off during the first weekend. It's fair to say that Underwood did a great job for most of the season, and a poor job during the tournament.

 

[Calillini]

I'd imagine everyone here gets that without Underwood, the Illini wouldn't have even been there, and most of us are with you on not trading him for any other coach. Still, the Loyola game is a head scratcher. We looked unprepared, and we let a smaller, less athletic team dictate style of play for forty minutes. We played soft, and tentative. That just can't happen during the tournament.

If you've recruited two All Americans and gotten your team to a number 1 seed, that's your year to shine. You can't have the wheels fall off during the first weekend. It's fair to say that Underwood did a great job for most of the season, and a poor job during the tournament.

I think this is as good as any synopsis I have seen of why this will stick in our collective craws for a long time.

 

[O&BIllini75]

I'd imagine everyone here gets that without Underwood, the Illini wouldn't have even been there, and most of us are with you on not trading him for any other coach. Still, the Loyola game is a head scratcher. We looked unprepared, and we let a smaller, less athletic team dictate style of play for forty minutes. We played soft, and tentative. That just can't happen during the tournament.

If you've recruited two All Americans and gotten your team to a number 1 seed, that's your year to shine. You can't have the wheels fall off during the first weekend. It's fair to say that Underwood did a great job for most of the season, and a poor job during the tournament.

I do not believe Kofi would have been considered All-American material when he was recruited. Ayo maybe. I did successfully coach for 20 years. It is nearly impossible to change defenses late in the season when you have played one style successfully the entire season. Especially during a game which can be a disaster. Iowa's changing defenses did not help much against Oregon. Syracuse has been successful with the zone because they use it year after year. I do not think the Illini have the right make up to play a zone. A coach can try different things during a game but the players have to respond. The coach cannot make the field goals, free throws, stop the silly turnovers, or make the players move their feet on defense. Underwood has coached for many years with many excellent coaches and teams. He certainly knows how to make adjustments during a game. Why the Illini did not respond is puzzling but you can say the same for Kansas, Ohio State, Iowa, Virginia, West Virginia, Michigan State, Texas, and Purdue. Some pretty good coaches lost those games due to poor coaching. This has been a very unusual season when you consider that the so-called "blue bloods" did not even make the tournament or were beaten early. The supposedly two best conferences this year each have only one team left. There are nine different conferences represented in the final 16. Has that ever happened before? I think it is great for college basketball. It is boring to have the same teams in the finals of the college football playoffs year after year. Of course, there are bowl games between 6-6 teams. Face it, the Illini had a bad game and got beat by another Illinois school that was trying to make a point. Sort of like Abilene Christian against UT. Notice what happen to them in their next game.

 

[Deleted member 747671]

I do not believe Kofi would have been considered All-American material when he was recruited. Ayo maybe. I did successfully coach for 20 years. It is nearly impossible to change defenses late in the season when you have played one style successfully the entire season. Especially during a game which can be a disaster. Iowa's changing defenses did not help much against Oregon. Syracuse has been successful with the zone because they use it year after year. I do not think the Illini have the right make up to play a zone. A coach can try different things during a game but the players have to respond. The coach cannot make the field goals, free throws, stop the silly turnovers, or make the players move their feet on defense. Underwood has coached for many years with many excellent coaches and teams. He certainly knows how to make adjustments during a game. Why the Illini did not respond is puzzling but you can say the same for Kansas, Ohio State, Iowa, Virginia, West Virginia, Michigan State, Texas, and Purdue. Some pretty good coaches lost those games due to poor coaching. This has been a very unusual season when you consider that the so-called "blue bloods" did not even make the tournament or were beaten early. The supposedly two best conferences this year each have only one team left. There are nine different conferences represented in the final 16. Has that ever happened before? I think it is great for college basketball. It is boring to have the same teams in the finals of the college football playoffs year after year. Of course, there are bowl games between 6-6 teams. Face it, the Illini had a bad game and got beat by another Illinois school that was trying to make a point. Sort of like Abilene Christian against UT. Notice what happen to them in their next game.

I think I agree with all of this. The reason I, and probably Walt responded to your previous post was the insinuation that we shouldn't criticize Underwood for the loss and lack of adjustments.

I personally don't think going zone makes sense for teams like ours that have a pretty set defensive system. A bad zone is very easy to beat. The minor adjustments are what I was upset about. Like, we just kind of accepted that the game was going to be played on Loyola's terms. You can't do that with a team as sound in their system as Loyola. We had more talent, try to make them play our game instead. Push the pace on offense. Get more aggressive on defense. Maybe switch screens if we couldn't get through their double screens. Those are simple adjustments without changing the general style of play. We didn't do those things.

 

[KevinC]

I just think that BU had decided that pounding it into Kofi was the way that he wanted to go so, that is what we did. Kofi had good numbers but, we still needed adjustments to be made. Loyola was well prepared for our deep drives and took away options when that happened. BU had said, the game before, that he wanted us to get all the way to the rim and that cost us in this game. Ace did what was needed but, every time he did, BU subbed him out.

 

[WaltJabsco]

I think I agree with all of this. The reason I, and probably Walt responded to your previous post was the insinuation that we shouldn't criticize Underwood for the loss and lack of adjustments.

I personally don't think going zone makes sense for teams like ours that have a pretty set defensive system. A bad zone is very easy to beat. The minor adjustments are what I was upset about. Like, we just kind of accepted that the game was going to be played on Loyola's terms. You can't do that with a team as sound in their system as Loyola. We had more talent, try to make them play our game instead. Push the pace on offense. Get more aggressive on defense. Maybe switch screens if we couldn't get through their double screens. Those are simple adjustments without changing the general style of play. We didn't do those things.

I more or less agree, too. It's just such a disappointing outcome, and our preparation and execution seemed so indifferent.

When I read that we had both Ayo and Kofi coming back this season, I thought we had a real chance at a Final Four. If you had told me we were going to get moon-pounded by Loyola in the round of 32, I'd have called you crazy. I graduated in '84, and I was gutted by the Rose Bowl loss. This feels like that, if we'd been dominated by EIU instead of UCLA.

 

[illini27jake]

Going to have to see how far Loyola gets but i really dont think the "losing in the first weekend" is fair when i really believe Loyola was the best team outside of Illinois in that region. Houston is an interesting matchup for them though

 

[purcy51]

What?????......

Really just being a fly in the ointment. However, I do believe it is worth considering this thought. Looking at the Big Ten's performance overall...were they over-rated or just exhausted? How does the Big Ten compare schedule-wise down the stretch to other conferences?

 

[O&BIllini75]

I think I agree with all of this. The reason I, and probably Walt responded to your previous post was the insinuation that we shouldn't criticize Underwood for the loss and lack of adjustments.

I personally don't think going zone makes sense for teams like ours that have a pretty set defensive system. A bad zone is very easy to beat. The minor adjustments are what I was upset about. Like, we just kind of accepted that the game was going to be played on Loyola's terms. You can't do that with a team as sound in their system as Loyola. We had more talent, try to make them play our game instead. Push the pace on offense. Get more aggressive on defense. Maybe switch screens if we couldn't get through their double screens. Those are simple adjustments without changing the general style of play. We didn't do those things.

Who is to say that Underwood did not tell his team to make those adjustments? You may not believe this, but players do not always do what the coach tells them to do during a game. However, Underwood is not a coach that throws his team "under the bus." Izzo's "coaching style" did not seem to help MSU too much. Yelling and whining at players only goes so far. Izzo may be a very successful coach, but it is time for him to take a break before he has a stroke. I had a lot of respect for him in the past but watching him now is gut wrenching. The story for Underwood is still unfolding. Can he continue to recruit the players he wants for his system? However, I will not question his ability to bring the best out of the talent he has. Have any of you ever had a bad day when no matter what you try does not seem to work? I once coached a team that was 28-0 going into the last game of the regular season. It is very difficult when you are expected to win every game you play. If you win, so what. If you lose, your not as good as you think you are. We lost to a team that was less talented but was very inspired. We had a bad game and the other team had something to prove. It happens. Everyone has the right to criticize Underwood's coaching and he no doubt expects it. However, a coach cannot prepare for every eventuality and control every action of a player. I knew that Coach K was a bad coach all along. Enough said and I sigh off for now.

 

[Deleted member 747752]

Except illinois state university?

Exactly. I watched him coach in Redbird Arena, and he was not good. Seems to have hit his stride, though.

 

[Deleted member 747671]

I more or less agree, too. It's just such a disappointing outcome, and our preparation and execution seemed so indifferent.

When I read that we had both Ayo and Kofi coming back this season, I thought we had a real chance at a Final Four. If you had told me we were going to get moon-pounded by Loyola in the round of 32, I'd have called you crazy. I graduated in '84, and I was gutted by the Rose Bowl loss. This feels like that, if we'd been dominated by EIU instead of UCLA.

This is what made it such a difficult watch. It was like an entirely different team that we had grown accustomed to watching. Getting beat backdoor, careless with the ball, looking like we had never defended a double screen before, being content playing slow. It just didn't make any sense. Speaking for myself, it was just so weird not being able to get that engagement into the game. Like everything felt detached, both gameplay by the team and fandom by myself. The team basically didn't show up. I graduated in 08 and can't think of an Illini comparison. I am a Steelers fan and had a similar feeling with the playoff loss to the Browns this year, but that had been building as the Steelers more-or-less fell apart the last month of the season. This Illini team was hitting its stride and playing their best ball. It was a totally unexpected and uncharacteristic game for them, and with ALL factors considered, the worst loss in my time as an Illini basketball fan, and quite probably the worst tournament loss in Illini history.

 

[dbeverly26]

Really just being a fly in the ointment. However, I do believe it is worth considering this thought. Looking at the Big Ten's performance overall...were they over-rated or just exhausted? How does the Big Ten compare schedule-wise down the stretch to other conferences?

Probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but I ascribe most of the struggles by the B1G to random luck applied to a small sample size. Just like you can, but usually don't, see ten coin flips in a row come up tails, I think it's probable that we just saw a bunch of good teams have bad games in a context where a bad game ends your season. The league might have been overrated to some extent but I don't see all seven (ok, eight, we'll count MSU) of the teams that made it getting knocked out where they did if the tournament were best of seven. The '96 Bulls had five of their ten regular season losses come against teams that won 42 games or fewer, for context, including back-to-back losses against the Nuggets and Suns. It just happens sometimes.

(Also, I take back what I said above about getting tails ten times in a row. You'd expect it, because tails never fails.)

 

[TCTORNADO]

66 possessions and 17 turnovers (25.7%)

 

[Keisersose]

66 possessions and 17 turnovers (25.7%)

And over a 3rd of the turnovers came from our All American. Just a rough game

 

[BoJack Underwoo]

Probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but I ascribe most of the struggles by the B1G to random luck applied to a small sample size. Just like you can, but usually don't, see ten coin flips in a row come up tails, I think it's probable that we just saw a bunch of good teams have bad games in a context where a bad game ends your season. The league might have been overrated to some extent but I don't see all seven (ok, eight, we'll count MSU) of the teams that made it getting knocked out where they did if the tournament were best of seven. The '96 Bulls had five of their ten regular season losses come against teams that won 42 games or fewer, for context, including back-to-back losses against the Nuggets and Suns. It just happens sometimes.

(Also, I take back what I said above about getting tails ten times in a row. You'd expect it, because tails never fails.)

Especially considering three of the losses were in games that went to OT. I also think this year more than any other is just one where most people are going to have days were they just aren't there mentally and you never know when it will hit.

 

[louisvilleillini]

I was watching the game and I thought (which doesn't mean much) but I thought he could have brought in GB to guard Krutwig at the top of the key and keep Kofi underneath. Plus I still don't understand why GB and Kofi stayed off of Krutwig. I was saying get up in his grill. The game is over and can be overanalyzed to a fine-tooth comb. We lost to a team that played better on that particular day. Can't wait till next season and on to Football.

 

[BoJack Underwoo]

Anyone else think that Ayo wasn't the same player following the MSU mugging?

In the 22 games up to and including MSUSPRM:
21.0 ppg (.486, .507, .40, .779), 6.32 rpg, 5.32 apg, 3.23 tov, 1.65 assist to turnover ratio

In the six games after:
17.0 ppg (.50, .538, .308, .80), 6.33 rpg, 5.0 apg, 3.67 tov, 1.36 assist to turnover ratio

 

[WaltJabsco]

I was watching the game and I thought (which doesn't mean much) but I thought he could have brought in GB to guard Krutwig at the top of the key and keep Kofi underneath. Plus I still don't understand why GB and Kofi stayed off of Krutwig. I was saying get up in his grill. The game is over and can be overanalyzed to a fine-tooth comb. We lost to a team that played better on that particular day. Can't wait till next season and on to Football.

Don't kick us while we're down!

 

[IllGuardU]

Considering the (visible) lack of in-game adjustments, does anyone think it’s possible we simply didn’t really prep for this game? I’m quite removed from this level of basketball and have no real idea how coaches scout and prep for opponents BUT I can easily imagine a scenario where a nervous Brad Underwood completely overlooking this game in fear of losing to his former school, Oklahoma State, in the next round.

I wondered the same thing. The thing that was obvious is that we didn’t pass out of a double team. Should have had open looks from that.

 

[WaltJabsco]

Especially considering three of the losses were in games that went to OT. I also think this year more than any other is just one where most people are going to have days were they just aren't there mentally and you never know when it will hit.

Well, if you're a Big Ten fan, you can probably plan on it hitting sometime between the first Thursday and the first Monday.

 

[dbeaverfg]

Didn't I hear that Deon said on the radio changes and adjustments were happening in the second half but they just weren't working?

 

[doowink]

Really just being a fly in the ointment. However, I do believe it is worth considering this thought. Looking at the Big Ten's performance overall...were they over-rated or just exhausted? How does the Big Ten compare schedule-wise down the stretch to other conferences?

These are 19-23 year old young men in great shape and great condition....most teams had 5 or 6 days between the conference tournament (or last regular season game they were in and their first game in the ncaa.....if they can't recover in that length of time, (not counting injury) then how much time do they need???? I remember back during the regular season people were complaining we didn't play in like 6-7 days a couple different times due to Covid issues....that we needed a game in order to stay sharp....is it worth considering that some teams were worn down....possible, but unlikely

 

[Deleted member 747671]

Considering the (visible) lack of in-game adjustments, does anyone think it’s possible we simply didn’t really prep for this game? I’m quite removed from this level of basketball and have no real idea how coaches scout and prep for opponents BUT I can easily imagine a scenario where a nervous Brad Underwood completely overlooking this game in fear of losing to his former school, Oklahoma State, in the next round.

I can't imagine that the coaches were not prepping for this game well in advance. In this scenario, one assistant had head scout/prep on GT while another had Loyola. No doubt this was something the coaching staff was working on basically as soon as the brackets were released.

I do wonder about how much prep the players did. It's one thing to tell them about what to expect, and even show them Loyola film. It's another thing to practice it and run through it, even if just as a walk-through. I have no info outside what you can find on twitter or here lol. Based on twitter, their Saturday practice was mostly a lifting/fitness workout, but that's based solely on the IlliniMBB twitter. I would assume they watched a good bit of Loyola film and worked through it that way, but seeing it full speed sure looked like we were unprepared for it.

I don't believe your Oklahoma State theory. Coaches know not to look that far in advance due to the nature of the tourney, especially with what would've been 5 days of open prep time between round 2 and the sweet 16. Also, if there's one team outside the B1G that Underwood would have familiarity with, it would be his former team coached by his former assistant.

 

[TCTORNADO]

87.5 PPP was our season low by far. Defense travels!!

 

[illinicwab]

This game stunk. Total turdburger. Upsetting way to end season.

Loyola was the real deal. Saw the top 10 kenpom ranking. Wasn't sure if legit. Best defense we have faced this year.

I blame Brad & team for loss. But, every coach and player has bad losses at some point.

Love these players! Sad to see their season end. Wish they all come back. If not, wish them nothing but the best.

Brad clearly has a track record of learning from failure. Hopefully better times ahead.