Coaching Carousel

[Oldskoolkoach]

Right. I’m certainly bummed to lose on Coach O and possibly Chin and their recruiting was great, but they also weren’t pulling in 5 star kids. We’ve been getting a stable of Top 100ish type kids, complemented by a few top 50s (Belo, Kofi, Melendez?), and the occasional top 30/borderline 5 stars (Ayo/Miller). I actually think that’s best CBB formula these days ala Nova or Baylor.

That level of recruiting is certainly replicable. Whoever we bring in may use different sources (ie, unlikely our Puerto Rican pipeline continues) but should be able to pull in top 100/occasional top 50 talent. I think we will be okay.

This is spot on.

If someone had the time to go back and track 5☆ vs. "the rest." I would bet you would find that majority of those 5☆ don't do what was expected for a variety of reasons. I think most of the time, "other people" are the reason. Those kids have too much pressure on them to live up to and their people are constantly reminding them of it.

Give me top 100 kids all day long that want to compete and have an edge because they didn't get the recognition. Pair that with high bball IQ and good families and you'll have the winning tradition.

 

[Joel Goodson]

We worry a lot as a fan base. I long for the day when we as a program don't fret over assistant coaches moving on and how it is going to affect our recruits. I doubt Michigan State, Duke,Kentucky etc. etc...... worry about such things.

Those programs haven't experienced near the adversity that ours has.

 

[kyillinifan]

So has there been any official announcements from the athletic office? For two weeks we hear he is going then he is staying. I guess wait till tomorrow concerning AM.

 

[foby]

For us die hards, I think you have to swap the fan base, not the coaches or the record, if you want to end the constant worrying.

But I also believe 95% of people who would call themselves Illini hoops fans couldn’t name an assistant coach.

 

[Goldtop]

I would bet MSU was not happy losing Fife to Indiana.

Sure, but did the fan base worry that it was going to wreck the program? Doubt it.

 

[Goldtop]

Those programs haven't experienced near the adversity that ours has.

Oh I agree. I didn't say it wasn't without warrant, just that I long for a day when we no longer carry such a burden.

 

[lstewart53x3]

Oh I agree. I didn't say it wasn't without warrant, just that I long for a day when we no longer carry such a burden.

There are no peaceful message boards.

 

[DICKnaggie]

No, you're just speculating. Just because a narrative matches an outside point of view doesn't mean you can claim it as fact/"common sense.

While there may be some speculation here, the bits about Feliz and Curbelo are objective and verifiable. They are indeed facts that he is using to support his position.

 

[TheFameProtector]

No, you're just speculating. Just because a narrative matches an outside point of view doesn't mean you can claim it as fact/"common sense"

Kofi, Ayo, Podz, etc have all cited Fletch as a big reason they came here. Can I now go around saying, "Fletch is the only reason they came here"?

He's not speculating, he provided sources and is relying on the words of the recruits themselves. He never said the "only reason," just that a main reason (big reason would be another way of putting it). Of course it's not like players go around and say "50% of the reason I came here was b/c of X and 25% was this and...", but we can take them at face value when they cite the importance of a given recruiter as a big reason they ended up at UI. And we can reasonably speculate that without that big reason, events might have played out differently.

 

[Fanview]

He's not speculating, he provided sources and is relying on the words of the recruits themselves. He never said the "only reason," just that a main reason (big reason would be another way of putting it). Of course it's not like players go around and say "50% of the reason I came here was b/c of X and 25% was this and...", but we can take them at face value when they cite the importance of a given recruiter as a big reason they ended up at UI. And we can reasonably speculate that without that big reason, events might have played out differently.

This is speculation. You even say it yourself "reasonably speculate". Doesn't change the fact it's speculation.

In I11ini82 own words, "OA was far and away the main reason those kids did". I haven't seen an interview where a kid says, "OA was far and away the main reason I came to U of I". Nor did his sources support that. I personally believe it played a big part, but to parade that as factual is misleading.

 

[WaltJabsco]

Right. I’m certainly bummed to lose on Coach O and possibly Chin and their recruiting was great, but they also weren’t pulling in 5 star kids. We’ve been getting a stable of Top 100ish type kids, complemented by a few top 50s (Belo, Kofi, Melendez?), and the occasional top 30/borderline 5 stars (Ayo/Miller). I actually think that’s best CBB formula these days ala Nova or Baylor.

That level of recruiting is certainly replicable. Whoever we bring in may use different sources (ie, unlikely our Puerto Rican pipeline continues) but should be able to pull in top 100/occasional top 50 talent. I think we will be okay.

We started two All Americans last season. That points to, among other things, truly extraordinary recruiting. I just don't think it's as replicable as you suggest it is. It's rare at any program, especially so at Illinois.

 

[rtbritt]

This is speculation. You even say it yourself "reasonably speculate". Doesn't change the fact it's speculation.

In I11ini82 own words, "OA was far and away the main reason those kids did". I haven't seen an interview where a kid says, "OA was far and away the main reason I came to U of I". Nor did his sources support that. I personally believe it played a big part, but to parade that as factual is misleading.

It seems like you aren't arguing anything.

 

[Illinoise]

There seems to have been a keen eye for spotting talent on the recruiting front over the last several years. Was that all OA and Chin, doubt it. I am confident whoever they bring in will be able to recruit, I just hope we keep recruiting the right kids.

 

[Ress]

Some day in the future we may or may not know if our staff is staying or leaving.

 

[Fanview]

It seems like you aren't arguing anything.

Or perhaps you're just missing the point. I think OA was a factor in us landing the aforementioned prospects. But hyperbole statements like, "OA was far and away the main reason those kids did" are really just fitting a narrative. It's speculation. Which is fine in itself, but don't parade it as "common sense" or "fact"

 

[haasi]

We started two All Americans last season. That points to, among other things, truly extraordinary recruiting. I just don't think it's as replicable as you suggest it is. It's rare at any program, especially so at Illinois.

More than just having the ability to recruit highly ranked kids, it’s about talent identification and development. Most top 30-50 kids don’t become all Americans. Our staff showed themselves as having a very good eye for talent and the capacity to develop it. As an example, Omar Payne was ranked ahead of Kofi. Kofi developed into an American as soph while Payne sat on bench.

So even if we bring in other assistants who can bring in top 50 players (Groce’s staff had a few), the chance we’ll have the same level of success turning them into all Americans doesn’t seem that high unless they’re comparably good at assessing talent and developing players.

 

[sharpshot16]

More than just having the ability to recruit highly ranked kids, it’s about talent identification and development. Most top 30-50 kids don’t become all Americans. Our staff showed themselves as having a very good eye for talent and the capacity to develop it. As an example, Omar Payne was ranked ahead of Kofi. Kofi developed into an American as soph while Payne sat on bench.

So even if we bring in other assistants who can bring in top 50 players (Groce’s staff had a few), the chance we’ll have the same level of success turning them into all Americans doesn’t seem that high unless they’re comparably good at assessing talent and developing players.

I would like to think that Underwood and Gentry watched Chin/Antigua's development patterns and drills to try and recreate it. (Since it worked so well)

It's all about finding recruiters at this point because Gentry and Underwood don't have that as their primary focus/responsibility.

 

[Deleted member 747802]

Or perhaps you're just missing the point. I think OA was a factor in us landing the aforementioned prospects. But hyperbole statements like, "OA was far and away the main reason those kids did" are really just fitting a narrative. It's speculation. Which is fine in itself, but don't parade it as "common sense" or "fact"

Dude, gotta say your point is a weak one here. I'm sorry, but we do not sniff a player like Curbelo if we do not have OA. Thus, he was "far and away the main reason" Curbelo came here. He said it himself when he committed. I mean, I hope that means he will not automatically transfer if OA leaves, but it is NOT an unreasonable concern BY ANY MEANS. No narrative.....just plain and simple logic.

 

[Soulberries]

He's not speculating, he provided sources and is relying on the words of the recruits themselves. He never said the "only reason," just that a main reason (big reason would be another way of putting it). Of course it's not like players go around and say "50% of the reason I came here was b/c of X and 25% was this and...", but we can take them at face value when they cite the importance of a given recruiter as a big reason they ended up at UI. And we can reasonably speculate that without that big reason, events might have played out differently.

We now have 4 Puerto Rican players, plus one of Puerto Rican decent (if my memory serves me correctIy). Antigua deserves credit for reaching out to them and their families and connecting with them on a level that no one else on our staff could. However, I don’t think anyone should then make an assumption that those recruits will now leave. At this point, only one is probably attractive to UK. Antigua created an atmosphere that made them feel welcomed and appreciated. But it’s not a given that they would leave now when they have each other here. Hopefully, U and W are sensitive to that and can hire an assistant that will also connect with them and make them feel wanted and at home.

 

[WaltJabsco]

Dude, gotta say your point is a weak one here. I'm sorry, but we do not sniff a player like Curbelo if we do not have OA. Thus, he was "far and away the main reason" Curbelo came here. He said it himself when he committed. I mean, I hope that means he will not automatically transfer if OA leaves, but it is NOT an unreasonable concern BY ANY MEANS. No narrative.....just plain and simple logic.

One would be hard pressed to name another person in college basketball who has the Caribbean experience, knowledge, and connections that Antigua has. He is, therefore, singularly skilled in recruiting that area of the world.

 

[Fanview]

Dude, gotta say your point is a weak one here. I'm sorry, but we do not sniff a player like Curbelo if we do not have OA. Thus, he was "far and away the main reason" Curbelo came here. He said it himself when he committed. I mean, I hope that means he will not automatically transfer if OA leaves, but it is NOT an unreasonable concern BY ANY MEANS. No narrative.....just plain and simple logic.

I just looked through his old interviews and not once did I see anything about Orlando being the "main reason". All he ever said was Orlando played a role. He also cited teammates, coaching staff, etc but those don't fit the narrative.

It's okay to admit you're making assumptions. Assumptions aren't bad. Why do you need everyone to think this is a fact? You don't know Curbelo personally. You're looking in from the outside and making assessments based on what you read.

Also, with this rationale. I'm going to assume any highly touted recruit we get that doesn't have a family tie with a coach is getting paid. That's logical, right? Why else did they commit here.

 

[The Sprouting Divot]

 

[Deleted member 747802]

I just looked through his old interviews and not once did I see anything about Orlando being the "main reason". All he ever said was Orlando played a role. He also cited teammates, coaching staff, etc but those don't fit the narrative.

It's okay to admit you're making assumptions. Assumptions aren't bad. Why do you need everyone to think this is a fact? You don't know Curbelo personally. You're looking in from the outside and making assessments based on what you read.

Ok I will assume you do know Curbelo personally since you are so adamant in your position. If so, I apologize. I do not "need" everyone to think it is a fact. All I am saying is it is not illogical to infer that OA was one of, if not the, main reasons Andre chose to come to Illinois from Puerto Rico via New York. That's all.

 

[Fanview]

Ok I will assume you do know Curbelo personally since you are so adamant in your position. If so, I apologize. I do not "need" everyone to think it is a fact. All I am saying is it is not illogical to infer that OA was one of, if not the, main reasons Andre chose to come to Illinois from Puerto Rico via New York. That's all.

There's nothing wrong with speculating, inferring, or assuming. It's when people claim it as "common sense" or "fact" that it's misleading.

People put words in players' mouths all the time and these things get regurgitated as factual. If it doesn't get called out, it keeps getting repeated. I'm from the Caribbean and so stuff like this strikes a chord especially.

 

[Manual3for4peat]

What bothers me about this is feels like Kentucky is the kid that didn’t study and now just wants to cheat right off of the smart kid. “Hey, just give me both of Illinois’ recruiters”.

On top of that we are doing it in a manner that’s dragging on during the recruiting season.