That "cornhusker" graphic is just too perfect.
1/10 Polls - Illinois #25 in AP Poll
You forgot to use $ for all the S’s
JFGsCoffeeMug
BU:1 Trash cans:0
- Chicago
You can care more about X than Y and still care about Y.
He cares about rankings because it helps with visibility, notoriety and recruiting. He’s just not going to say it because he wants the team focus on themselves. As a coach for his players I agree who cares about the AP poll and yes focus on the analytics. But to help build the overall program it matters!
madillini4
Ozamataz Buckshank
- Millywaukee
All the analysts have us around 5 at the moment. NET rankings can be misleading.
I agree. And I'm sure he shares that sentiment. All he said was "I'd much rather have the analytics than the ranking. We pay more attention to those...".
But analysts do not determine tournament seeds. NET does, or at least mostly does.
25 is too low.
There are two ways to get the rankings:
1. Individual observation with a subjective analysis and end point/rank. (AP, Ferris/coaches, CBS)
2. Analytics, which are objective, non-impressionable data with end points. (KPom, Sagarin, Net, Bracketology)
One would hope that the individual/subjective rankings would have a combination of both.
Apparently that’s not the case.
Subjective rankings: AP #25, Coaches poll #24, CBS #24
Objective rankings: KPom #11, Sagarin #9, Net #10, Bracketology a 3 seed.
To me, this screams of individual voters not doing there due diligence when completing their rankings.
Doesn’t much matter over the long haul though, and I’m hoping the boys feel disrespected and it shows in their performance this week and beyond.
There are two ways to get the rankings:
1. Individual observation with a subjective analysis and end point/rank. (AP, Ferris/coaches, CBS)
2. Analytics, which are objective, non-impressionable data with end points. (KPom, Sagarin, Net, Bracketology)
One would hope that the individual/subjective rankings would have a combination of both.
Apparently that’s not the case.
Subjective rankings: AP #25, Coaches poll #24, CBS #24
Objective rankings: KPom #11, Sagarin #9, Net #10, Bracketology a 3 seed.
To me, this screams of individual voters not doing there due diligence when completing their rankings.
Doesn’t much matter over the long haul though, and I’m hoping the boys feel disrespected and it shows in their performance this week and beyond.
To the team, regarding our current ranking:
I think fans care way more about where a team is ranked than the players do. I'm actually ok with our #25 ranking, but that's me. I think this is a good take by Robert on it:
t.co
Heresy!
The new AP Poll will come out here in about 10 minutes. I'll tweet it when it does, and when I do that, wherever they have us (somewhere between 22 & 24, I'm guessing) won't be good enough. Illini not being top-12 = heresy. At least that's what my mentions tell me. I'd like to talk about that...
madillini4
Ozamataz Buckshank
- Millywaukee
NET rankings can be misleading. I’m not trying to argue with people. I agree that we should be higher. But reality is that at the moment, we are considered a 5 seed, and analysts take things like NET into consideration for their thought process, but it’s not everything.
altgeld88
- Arlington, Virginia
Red Bull (or something) gives you wings.
altgeld88
- Arlington, Virginia
The years have been unkind to me. Complete damp squib. I had it all wrong. You've got it right. It's:
"Looking good, Billy Ray"
"Feeling good, Lewis."
Props to skyldub for invoking the GIF. Evergreen and multipurpose. It's goin' in the ol' library.
Illinois is an odd case at this time, because metrically they're a top 10 team, but by achievement they're a more middling team, mostly because their non-conference was a bit of a mess with all the injuries/suspensions and the like (I consider Curbelo playing injured for Marquette and Cincy a detriment). At the same time, they've had a double digit lead in every game they've played this season except one (guess which one, it's not the one you think!).
So you get situations like this:
Efficiency metrics: NET #10, KP #11, T-Rank #11, Sagarin #9, ESPN BPI #9 (solidly a 3 seed)
Result-based metrics: SOR #32, WAB #30 (effectively an 8 seed)
Where are they really? Probably more towards the former than the latter, especially if everyone is healthy. It's just that the results to this point haven't reflected it. Fortunately they're in the B1G and will have plenty of chances to prove their worth, instead of the MVC and not have a chance to move up in estimation during conference season, and get stuck with an undeserved 8 seed (see 2021 Loyola).
So you get situations like this:
Efficiency metrics: NET #10, KP #11, T-Rank #11, Sagarin #9, ESPN BPI #9 (solidly a 3 seed)
Result-based metrics: SOR #32, WAB #30 (effectively an 8 seed)
Where are they really? Probably more towards the former than the latter, especially if everyone is healthy. It's just that the results to this point haven't reflected it. Fortunately they're in the B1G and will have plenty of chances to prove their worth, instead of the MVC and not have a chance to move up in estimation during conference season, and get stuck with an undeserved 8 seed (see 2021 Loyola).
I love the disrespect they keep showing us.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
I don’t think anyone on here has suggested the AP Poll is as accurate or meaningful as things like the NET Rankings or KenPom or that your AP rank says anything particularly important about how your team is doing.
What we HAVE said - and should be completely agreed upon by 100% of the posters here - is that being “ranked” carries some prestige with casual fans, and it can only be a good thing as far as exposure, program perception, game times that are still TBD, etc. I don’t buy for one second that this group “needs” any alleged “advantage” of not being ranked like not having it go to their heads or putting a chip on their shoulder.
So, even if rankings “are meaningless” in some capacity … simply put, it’s better to be ranked than not be ranked. Perfectly reasonable for a fan to care about being ranked, perfectly reasonable for a fan to not put as much stock in it, but it’s absurd to actively not want to be ranked or try to persuade other fans that they should care about it less (both of which I’ve seen here before).
Ballots
So Richey has us up to 18. Klee to 16. 20 voters don't have us ranked.
Some genius has Alabama as the 9th best team in his poll.
Other fun nuggets. Rabjohns the only guy to not put OSU on his ballot. Some guy named Newell has us at 10 and also has IU and Iowa on his ballot.
So Richey has us up to 18. Klee to 16. 20 voters don't have us ranked.
Some genius has Alabama as the 9th best team in his poll.
Other fun nuggets. Rabjohns the only guy to not put OSU on his ballot. Some guy named Newell has us at 10 and also has IU and Iowa on his ballot.
I mean, I guess maybe they’re thinking we don’t have our point guard. But we have the best player in the country surrounded by three of the best shooters and our point guard is about to come back. It’s just laziness on the voters parts.
I wish we would keep winning AND be kept out of the AP25.
Not sure where I said rankings are meaningless. All I said was a lot of programs seem to value analytics over rankings - which makes sense. And that Underwood wasn't just "coach speak" for saying that he cares about the analytics more.
Where is the right side of that expression coming from? What IS that “1” business?
I'm guessing the difference in NIL for a guy like Kofi being in the top 10 vs. unranked is in the 6 figures.
We want to be ranked. And the higher the better.
We want to be ranked. And the higher the better.
Fighter of the Nightman
- Chicago, IL
Didn’t mean to insinuate that’s specifically what you said, was hoping the part about seeing both on this site before conveyed that. My bad!