Illini Basketball

[mattcoldagelli]

So the Big 10 has gotten unlucky 22 years in a row?

I mean, not really, because those 22 years also saw tons of teams getting to the Final Four and seven teams playing for a national title.

The PAC-12 hasn't had a national champion since 1997. Why is no one bemoaning that "PAC-12 style of play"?

 

[altgeld88]

Basically. Since MSU last won it, no conference has more Final Four appearances. The conference has four Finals losses by single digits during that time. A little different luck and any single one of those games could have gone the other way.

And seven BT losses in the finals total in 21 years. Duke and NC have won 6 of those 21 titles. Connecticut won three, Villanova and Florida two each.

 

[GForce]

It's amazing RJ could do that but Frazier, Damonte, and Plummer couldn't. I'm gonna get flamed for this take, bring it on.

All those guys can beat their man off the dribble. It's when they get to the basket against athletic bigs that they run into trouble. RJ has the height and athleticism to overcome that on the regular.

 

[Dbell1981]

Haven't had time to look at their roster but I noticed how TCU seemed to switch everything against AZ. Even their "bigs" switched on pick and rolls. Seems like building a roster with more mobile (maybe smaller) bigs and longer guards and wings would improve our defense along with the offense. Positionless basketball anyone?

That was the goal until we landed Kofi. Probably still the goal afterwards. We needed difference makers and Kofi is one. I'm sure coach adjusted the scheme quite a bit to take advantage of the monster in the middle but I truly believe Brads bread and butter is ran with a 5 that can draw you out to the perimeter consistently. If we keep recruiting at a high level i doubt we see many more back to the basket centers in the O&B going forward. As great as Kofi is, even if it is a year and a half from now I'm anxious to see this offense in motion with our underclassmen and incoming freshmen.

 

[Emerson Bigguns]

I'd agree that the BIG has had fewer truly elite teams when compared to the richest programs that get multiple burger boys / one-n-dones year after year. (e.g. Kentucky/Duke/North Car). But if you consider those as outliers, the BIG stacks up pretty well. And you do see multiple lottery picks and other NBA players each year.

Underwood is going to get second-guessed as managing too tightly given the last 2 tournaments. I don't have a strong opinion, but it is concerning to see several guys seeming to play tight in the dance. He's shown a willingness to adapt though, so hopefully next year looks more focused come tournament time.

B1G is a tough a conference as there is, top to bottom. There were certainly conferences this year that had better teams at the top, but also had some really lousy squads at the bottom. There were 9 B1G teams in the tournament, and as we saw all year, there wasn't a ton of separation between them. Indiana's curb stomping at the hands of St. Mary's aside, most of them played like they belonged there.

We all suspected that Purdue was the best team in the conference, and the tournament is bearing that out. Michigan always had the talent to be a top 10 team, they just didn't play like it most of the season.

They are both capable of changing the B1G narrative.

 

[bartwa]

Well, the sun did rise this morning........After an Illini loss I sometimes wonder if it will ever stop hurting and tearing my guts up.......I still am in denial that the season is actually over , but when the tourney resumes this coming weekend it will for sure hit me again that the season is over.....

There have been many great posts supporting this years Illini team and I want to add my feeling's about what a rollercoaster ride this season has been ......
Injuries , suspensions and illnesses was a constant reminder of how fragile an existence we all live in this world......It was magnified by a seemingly weekly case of an injury or a covid outbreak or a flu bug , but it just seemed that we were never at 100 % for any stretch of time this year......BU stated in his post game preser that we missed out on 20 practice days because of this or that and with him seeing practice as a way to work out the kinks in our play , I firmly believe it hindered our growth as a cohesive squad , especially in our offense flowing like we have seen in small sample length's of time .......

I am not going to analyze the games in the dance , as many more qualified posters have stated in their posts exactly how i felt about our performance and i don't want to be redundant at all ..........I will say that i am puzzled by our offensive performance , but will leave it at that.....

I want to say thank you to Trent and DMW for coming back for another year as their leadership was invaluable to this year's Illini........Did they take minutes away from others on the squad .....Well , yes .....yes , they did and I'm torn between whether it was the best for the growth of the younger players , but it's a moot point now ......

Trent and DMW cemented a place in my heart for their 5 years of being Illini and I wish them well in their future endeavors....I'm sure they will continue to be productive in whatever course of life they decide on.......And , I am looking forward to no more discussions on whether they (DMW mainly ) deserved to get the minutes they got this year ......It got to be so burdensome to read the posts condemning their minutes on the court that I finally got to scrolling past the arguments of right or wrong ......Everyone has a right to voice their opinions and I support that , but do it in a way to further your thoughts and not demean them as they are the ones putting in the time and effort to become better representative's of our fine program......

I feel enthused more now than I have in a long time about where our Illini BB and FB programs are standing as far as the B1G and the broader spectrum of the NCAA.........BB has momentum in the FB side continuing and BU is the answer for our BB side ......I hope the new WBB hire can come in and reverse that terrible status quo there , as it became embarrassing to see the level of failure in that squad......

I am , and will always be an Illini fanatic ...........I live and breath Illini sports........It makes me whole when we win and tears me up when we lose ........Gummy bears and 420 aside , I want the Illini program's to succeed to the highest level's possible and with the coaches and staff's we have assembled , I think a new day of optimism is upon us and I hope we can , as a fanbase , unite into supporting the programs , instead of tearing down the players for any mistakes they make ........

I am really excited to see some new players coming into the program as I firmly believe " change is necessary for growth ""

It won't take long for us to see we have 3 very exciting new recruits in Harris , Epps and Rodgers coming in to help continue this rise in the level of our programs...

JMHO

Of all the the weird and wonderful entries you make on these boards, this post might be your best effort
Go Illin!

 

[Roundball Sage]

Again, what does this mean? When you hear Baylor and Virginia - the last two national champions - are "flashy" and "flowing" the words that come to mind? Those teams ate you up with defense and were ruthlessly efficient at the offensive end.

All of this is just feelings in search of a unifying theory. There isn't one. The B1G hasn't won a title since 2000 because the tournament is weird and random and that stat is more coincidence than anything else. It's unsatisfying. Sorry.

But there is a unifying theory.

This goes back to the old Big Ten football philosophy of 'Three Yards and a Cloud of Dust'. Big Ten football was famous for being bruising and conservative... and also boring at times when compared to other teams and conferences.

The theory here is that Big Ten basketball retains some of that grinding, slower, conservative play as the footballers did. Thus the scores in the 30's that the other poster referred to. Teams that are 'flashing' and 'flowing' get to 30 around the 15-minute mark rather than being stuck in the 40s and 50s at end end of the game.

Just because you have a freer-flowing offense doesn't mean you don't play good defense. Obviously, those winning teams with that style do.

The tournament is weird. But there are reasons beyond that for why the B1G has struggled to bag to big National trophy for so long.

You can't always 'will' the ball through the hoop. But your style of play and offensive approach is one thing you always control. It is a choice you make based upon your talent and what you're objectives are. It's not just coincidence.

 

[Butters]

I think you (and plenty of other people) are extrapolating the transfer bonanza that arose from a simultaneous rule change and amnesty on the sit out year due to COVID. Obviously there will be more transfers than in the past, but it's not going to be like it was the last year.

I hope this is correct. Selfishly, I just enjoy seeing the players grow into stars in front of us more than watching someone like Plummer come in and have a really good year out of the blue.

 

[mattcoldagelli]

But there is a unifying theory.

This goes back to the old Big Ten football philosophy of 'Three Yards and a Cloud of Dust'. Big Ten football was famous for being bruising and conservative... and also boring at times when compared to other teams and conferences.

No, you've stumbled on the real answer - it's that fans take a lazy (but not totally meritless) football narrative and force-fit it onto a different sport, regardless of whether it applies (it does not).

Again, if the "style of play and offensive approach" is what is keeping the B1G from winning national titles, what is it that is keeping the PAC-12 from winning national titles?

 

[Fighter of the Nightman]

I've had some time to think and reflect, and I just want to say I am so thankful to the seniors for all they did to dig us back out of the grave and make the Illini annually relevant again. It feels so good, and it's easy to lose sight of that accomplishment because we so desperately wanted to take that next step, too. With that said, there is always a "next phase" of such a program rebuild, and I do think it will be extremely valuable to have players like Curbelo, Goode, Melendez, etc. and hopefully Kofi going into another year LITERALLY only knowing success. Trent and Da'Monte knew a lot of losing, and I can't even begin to respect the mental toughness they both showed to stick with this program and change the culture ... but there's something to be said for "never having known anything else," and I am kind of optimistic that next year's team will have way less of a "rebuilding year" than many might assume. In fact, I could kind of see a similar trajectory of last year being 2003 (Big Ten champs and Second Round loss as a 4-seed) and next year being 2004 (less hyped, thought to be "worse" on paper," but still had a better Tournament performance). Let's hope so!

 

[Bigtex]

Big Ten teams are geared to playing ‘Big Ten’ basketball. Spirited, tough, defensive-minded. Other teams are built to play Big Dance ball. Flashier and more flowing. Generally more athletic.

Yes, Big Ten teams have had success in the past in the tournament. But not really enough (lately) given how highly some B1G programs think of themselves.

The big name-plate programs still remain Gonzaga, Duke, Baylor, Kentucky, Kansas, North Carolina, Arizona... based upon their body of work the past ten years or so.

Generally, they attract the high-star guys due to their program’s prominent status and wide media exposure. UCLA has made strides to get back up into that group again. Some SEC teams are getting close to the upper reaches now that the word is out it’s not just a football conference any more. Some Texas schools besides Baylor are getting good.

Other programs like Marquette and De Paul and Louisville who used to live high in the rankings have slipped from that perch and haven’t been able to get back up there. Georgetown, too.

Illinois right now is stuck one notch below the high Blue Bloods. The Orange has elevated up from the middle pack and into the upper solid program level. But the past two years has proven that one more big step up must be taken.

The big name coaches and big name programs will remain where they are until someone else can break through and join the party. Illini Nation knows who we want to see break through the glass ceiling and join the most high perches.

Coaches can get caught up in the day-to-day concerns of running the team and providing for the well-being of these young men. The off season gives the coaching staff a chance to take a step back and evaluate where the program is and what it needs to do to build from the foundation they have laid down.

Yes, Illini Nation. We are hungry. But we can’t let our eagerness for success just add to the pressure that the Illini roundball program already feels. They feel the pressure and our hopes and they want badly to give us what we all want.

Just play ball, guys. Put the best team on the floor every night and guys that will give it their all and we can live with the results. Continue to make the program a place where top guys want to come and where they know they will succeed. That’s what they want. And that’s what we want.

For me, the bar this year was set at Sweet Sixteen at least. It remains there for next season even with all the Illini roster changes. And maybe Elite Eight. That would be a solid step to the Promised Land.

Outside of Illinois fans, I think most other programs/fans thinks we are several notches below the blue bloods. Obviously we all wanted at least S16 this year.
To get national respect we need several years of S16, E8, F4 performance.

If Illinois is one notch below blue bloods, I would then say their are 3 categories:
Blue Bloods
one notch below
Those not making NCAA tourney

 

[ChiefIllinois]

No, you've stumbled on the real answer - it's that fans take a lazy (but not totally meritless) football narrative and force-fit it onto a different sport, regardless of whether it applies (it does not).

Again, if the "style of play and offensive approach" is what is keeping the B1G from winning national titles, what is it that is keeping the PAC-12 from winning national titles?

The biggest reason the Big Ten doesn’t win championships is talent level.

How many consensus 5 stars have gone to a big ten school in the past decade? Less than 20 I’d wager. And no that isn’t the only metric of measuring success but if top talent is going elsewhere it’s hard to string together a championship team.

Assuming only 20 5 stars a year and assuming the vast majority go to P6 schools you’d like that number to be closer to 33 than 20 for the big ten. It doesn’t sound like a big gap but factor in other conferences are taking those away and becoming better and it’s not hard to realize why the big ten suffers.

 

[Illini-Rule]

Great post Pru.....

 

[FinallyMadeAnAccount]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1505976967811715079

 

[JMoser16]

I think there will be something to say for the continuity the roster will have if Kofi comes back. Another off-season for RJ and Goode will do wonders, with a healthy Curbelo getting reps in, plus the added benefit of Dainja being with the staff all off-season long. I know projecting the Big Ten standings for next season is a tiresome excercise due to the Draft and Portal, but I really think we'd be in the top 3 for the Big Ten Title.

 

[Bigtex]

I'd agree that the BIG has had fewer truly elite teams when compared to the richest programs that get multiple burger boys / one-n-dones year after year. (e.g. Kentucky/Duke/North Car). But if you consider those as outliers, the BIG stacks up pretty well. And you do see multiple lottery picks and other NBA players each year.

Underwood is going to get second-guessed as managing too tightly given the last 2 tournaments. I don't have a strong opinion, but it is concerning to see several guys seeming to play tight in the dance. He's shown a willingness to adapt though, so hopefully next year looks more focused come tournament time.

Not a big sample size but his 6 NCAA teams have never made it Sweet 16. You said several guys seemed to play tight (Agree) and IMO he needs to adapt to survive and advance.

 

[pruman91]

If I had been able to ask a question to the players at the post game presser I would have asked if the ball felt different than the ball used during the regular season and also , was the court slick in spots ?

 

[727ill]

I think there will be something to say for the continuity the roster will have if Kofi comes back. Another off-season for RJ and Goode will do wonders, with a healthy Curbelo getting reps in, plus the added benefit of Dainja being with the staff all off-season long. I know projecting the Big Ten standings for next season is a tiresome excercise due to the Draft and Portal, but I really think we'd be in the top 3 for the Big Ten Title.

If Kofi returns I could see us being the favorite. Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin and Purdue also once again in the mix. Top of the Big 10 next year is going to look awfully similar.

 

[mattcoldagelli]

The biggest reason the Big Ten doesn’t win championships is talent level.

The B1G had three consensus First Team All-Americans this year.

 

[madcrazeeballa]

I'm not sure exactly who will be on next year's roster, but it should be the most versatile roster BU has ever had. There is an awful lot to be excited about.

I agree, I think we could be really good next year even if Kofi decides to move on. IF there's a life without Kofi, I think our offensive spacing improves. I also think we'll have enough shooters and guys that can penetrate into the lane to be really dangerous offensively due to the versatility mentioned. (To be clear, I'd love to have Kofi back.....I would love to watch him dunk on Wisconsin for another year).

 

[Calillini]

As we always say, once an Illini, always an Illini, so we can look forward to:

Next year Kofi hangs his jersey in the rafters, just be sure to order some extra strong rope.

In 9 years, the gang is back to celebrate the 10th anniversary of the BTT championship

in 10, years, a similar gang is back for the 10th anniversary of the BIG championship.

We have a great future

 

[ChiefIllinois]

The B1G had three consensus First Team All-Americans this year.

And only 1 of the other 2 is still in it. And the three from the big ten were all on teams seeded 3rd or lower while the other two were on 1 seeds. And Purdue is still in it. I purposely said 5 star status isn’t the end all but recruiting trends definitely point downwards for the big ten and that will lead to a talent deficiency.

You need more than a single player to win the national championship. Without looking I know Kansas and Kentucky have more highly touted recruits than us, Purdue, and Wisconsin to go along with their AA. Heck we started a 2 star transfer, an unranked low major transfer, and two borderline top 100 recruits to go along with our AA.

Having an AA is great but you don’t have to look far to see how other top teams in power conferences have more talent than the big ten.

 

[SescIllini]

Trying to determine why the BIG hasn't had success in NCAA is difficult to answer, especially when we have some very good coaches with many talented players. I would say that the NCAA field is a benchmark, made up of diverse teams that doesn't try to beat a goal, it is what it is. Trying to ask yourself why the BIG doesn't beat the NCAA is like saying why can't we beat this benchmark, of diverse teams in a large pool. You just answered your question. The NCAA field isn't trying to beat a goal, because it is the benchmark.

 

[Tacomallini]

As we always say, once an Illini, always an Illini, so we can look forward to:

Next year Kofi hangs his jersey in the rafters, just be sure to order some extra strong rope.

In 9 years, the gang is back to celebrate the 10th anniversary of the BTT championship

in 10, years, a similar gang is back for the 10th anniversary of the BIG championship.

We have a great future

Hope Andres Feliz at least gets an invite to photo bomb the pic in 9 years

 

[IlliniReb]

This might be recency bias given Curbelo was on the bench in the second half yesterday. I could understand why people might look at that as a sign he's not coming back. I don't buy it, but I get the logic.

I'm curious about the exchange he had with coaches in the locker room that kept him on the bench. On the one hand, I do admire BU for sticking to his guns and not letting an athlete dictate what happens in his locker room, but on the other I can't help but wonder if Belo, with his ability to create for others and nose for rebounds, wouldn't have been helpful. Make it clear he's getting pulled if he takes another bogus 3-pt. attempt, but put him out there.

Did I miss this somewhere?