Illini Basketball

[Bigtex]

Have heard it was in regards to not being offered the same NIL as returning players... either way best of luck to him.

heard similar (NIL $$$)

 

[Get yourself a new map]

Mayer single-handedly ended some very important scoring runs with outrageous defensive lapses. Now there was a dude for whom you could afford to communicate your displeasure. Same with Plummer last year - love him but guy got torched a lot. Neither had options at the end of their seasons. But both could win you a game out of nowhere. I just want to know that despite their offensive prowess, they were the brunt of Brad's wrath at a rate proportionate to those players who didn't display the same game-changing ability. My eyeball/memory study informs they were not. I've heard all the stuff about being tough on Ayo, yadda; but maybe try to balance the in-game : practice admonishments from player to player.

 

[Ghost77]

Glad to see that everyone is writing off the FRESHMAN Epps. Just like Podz right, will never amount to anything?

BU really needs to nail this one. Don't want to go back to wandering the desert for a PG like in the Groce years.

 

[kyillinifan]

Hate to see Epps transfer. Was a really good player. Will be missed.

 

[GoodePodzMelendez]

I wish there was a single guy on that list that I felt totally confident just penciling in for a reliable 30 minutes a game against any opponent rain or shine, but there just isn't.

I am a balanced minutes guy playing 9-10 players a game. FAU did not have one player that averaged 30 a game. They played 9 guys double digit minutes with the most, 26 and the least at 16. Playing multiple people does two things, keeps the team fresh and helps with any injuries throughout the year. Secondly, it helps player development as young guys get valuable minutes especially late in the season when other teams wear down.

 

[skyIdub]

So you land a highly recruited guard prized for his shooting ability, one Underwood described variously as an outstanding shooter, elite scorer, as good as any freshman guard in the nation, etc., somebody who fills a critical need on the team but then you have to plug him in as your PG after your other top freshman guard recruit bails out on you. And he plays well, having few turnovers and solid scoring from beyond the arc and able to often drive inside to score as well.
Rather than value the kid for filling the toughest role on the team while having no experience as a PG and boosting his confidence, you focus on his defensive weaknesses and criticize him to the point where he feels unappreciated, that he's being treated unfairly and wants out?
While coaches can't control everything about a player, their job is to evaluate players accurately, both physically and mentally, to get the best from them. Underwood seems to have failed with Epps, who will likely have a very good collegiate career. Of the five high school guards who have left during the past two seasons, Epps may be the one we regret the most.

 

[illini0440]

So you land a highly recruited guard prized for his shooting ability, one Underwood described variously as an outstanding shooter, elite scorer, as good as any freshman guard in the nation, etc., somebody who fills a critical need on the team but then you have to plug him in as your PG after your other top freshman guard recruit bails out on you. And he plays well, having few turnovers and solid scoring from beyond the arc and able to often drive inside to score as well.
Rather than value the kid for filling the toughest role on the team while having no experience as a PG and boosting his confidence, you focus on his defensive weaknesses and criticize him to the point where he feels unappreciated, that he's being treated unfairly and wants out?
While coaches can't control everything about a player, their job is to evaluate players accurately, both physically and mentally, to get the best from them. Underwood seems to have failed with Epps, who will likely have a very good collegiate career. Of the five high school guards who have left during the past two seasons, Epps may be the one we regret the most.

Being coached/given constructive criticism on his defensive abilities/inabilities doesn’t mean he wasn’t valued offensively….

 

[WhiteHorseWings]

we have not had a Guard complete their Illinois eligibility from a recruited player since Ayo, which was pre-Portal era

Mark Smith, Alan Griffin, Adam Miller, Andre Curbelo, Brandin Podziemski, Skyy Clark and Jayden Epps all left now, including every Guard in the 'Portal Era' (can transfer without sitting out).

Look, I'm not saying Underwood is a bad human or a bad basketball coach, but at some point, a trend is a trend, and we can't keep saying "it just wasn't a right fit" or blaming the player from not looking up to Ayo enough (when Ayo has been gone for two seasons and Epps probably has no personal relationship with).

"maybe it was mom", "maybe it was concussions", "maybe he just isn't a Big Ten athlete", "maybe it was his ego", "maybe it was chemistry"

Yeah, maybe... but maybe it's Underwood and a fundamental inability to build a proper trust/relationship with young guards. I think that we are firmly in 'gut check' territory for Illinois in the Underwood era. I'm not saying the sky is falling, but I do think it's worth it to be realistic and consider things moving forward.

Agree. If you wake up in the morning and bump into an $&@$hole, then big deal, you bumped into an $&@$hole. But if you bump into $&@$holes all day long, then maybe you’re the $&@$hole.

 

[The Dying Illini]

Being coached/given constructive criticism on his defensive abilities/inabilities doesn’t mean he wasn’t valued offensively….

*yells from the rooftop* ITS ABOUT $$$

 

[skyIdub]

Agree. If you wake up in the morning and bump into an $&@$hole, then big deal, you bumped into an $&@$hole. But if you bump into $&@$holes all day long, then maybe you’re the $&@$hole.

And maybe need glasses?

 

[ptgrd23]

Goodbye Jayden. Hope your career trajectory is more Pods than Adam Miller or Andre Cuerbelo.

Was averaging 30 mpg as a freshman till concussion knocked him out at end of season.

Wherever you go you will have to improve your game

- defense
- less turnovers
- better ball handling

Not many 6'2 shooting guards in NBA.

-----
Skyy leaving after getting benched I get. He thought he was one and done NBA bound. Jayden was doing very well but ran into the end of season wall (as did most of the team). Not sure it will be easier anywhere else.

 

[wettsten]

Glad to see that everyone is writing off the FRESHMAN Epps. Just like Podz right, will never amount to anything?

BU really needs to nail this one. Don't want to go back to wandering the desert for a PG like in the Groce years.

??? seems to me the general consensus is that it hurts because we all think he'll do great at his next stop. the only problem was team culture fit.

 

[nichi]

It’s 6 years later. Whatever the program looked like 6 years ago is irrelevant. The year that Groce got fired:

Groce’s 5th year. 18-14 (8-10)
Underwood’s 6th year: 20-13 (11-9)

Not that much different. Underwood’s issues is his record without Kofi, and the yearly attrition of key players that will prevent this team from getting to the next level.

Most fans aren’t happy with this level. Better than Groce isn’t enough. Not 6 years into a regime.

Just my opinion

Most programs have ups and downs. Jim Larrañaga is having a great year. A little know fact: In his 6th season at Miami, he was 14-18. In his 6th to 8th years there, he was 39-51, with three straight losing seasons.

Underwood returned 16.5% of minutes played and 13.9% of scoring from 2021-22. He was 20-13 and made the NCAA tournament.

 

[Illini-Rule]

I hate to see Epps leave, he had a high ceiling in my opinion. But, I think he could also be one of the guys who could drag a team down by not running a play or getting beat on defense. But on the other hand his scoring was "elite" according to BU. If his side line demeanor was any indication of his attitude towards the team, then maybe good riddance? I don't know it's all speculation on my end. I appreciate 0440 with his insite to what's going on with him. Whatever it was, we have to move on to the next player.

 

[ChiefGritty]

I am a balanced minutes guy playing 9-10 players a game. FAU did not have one player that averaged 30 a game. They played 9 guys double digit minutes with the most, 26 and the least at 16. Playing multiple people does two things, keeps the team fresh and helps with any injuries throughout the year. Secondly, it helps player development as young guys get valuable minutes especially late in the season when other teams wear down.

But that's neither here nor there, you've got to have players you trust.

That seems like a key word I'm not seeing in a lot of this discourse. What is the difference between BU's relationship between the team from two years ago and many of the individuals on it, versus his exasperation with this team and the negativity of some of those individual relationships? He trusted Ayo, Kofi, Trent, DaMonte, etc individually and collectively. He didn't trust anybody or anything this season. He didn't know what was going to happen when he pushed any given button.

So that's where my reaction comes from. A lot of promising players on that list of returnees. Is it a list that seems well suited to restoring a sense of reliability and trust between players and staff? No, frankly.

And pouring portal guys on top like hot fudge on a sundae seems like it will obviously introduce some of the same sort of cultural turbulence installing Shannon and Mayer as stars and leaders from the outside did.

 

[MAUI DERON]

I will share a story from the 2018 Maui Invitational tournament. I got into a closed practice for Illinois the day before the tournament started at the local high school gym. I personally witnessed Brad Underwood call a player a pu$$y multiple times for losing the ball to a defender. “You’re a p$$y” and “You’re soft as ####” over and over for about a minute. This was in front of the entire team and a group of young basketball kids who were also there watching the practice. It was a terrible thing to watch, very uncomfortable and I’m all for tough love but don’t see how that was coaching. The player was Alan Griffin.

 

[Fighter of the Nightman]

??? seems to me the general consensus is that it hurts because we all think he'll do great at his next stop. the only problem was team culture fit.

Yeah, I have not seen anyone act like losing Epps is not a significant loss "on paper." The most anyone has done is try to temper just how big of a deal it will be, especially with so many options in the portal and Underwood having an objectively pretty successful track record at recruiting the portal.

 

[Ghost77]

??? seems to me the general consensus is that it hurts because we all think he'll do great at his next stop. the only problem was team culture fit.

Is it an Epps problem or a BU problem?

 

[sacraig]

Would love to know who writes these “dear john “ letters for these transfers. Goes on for three paragraphs saying how “great” everything and everyone was. The trainers, tutors, professors, coaches, and fans were the best. How his teammates were like family. But oh by the way in my best interest I’m the hell out of here.

I was thinking something similar. Just once I want these people to just air it out. Or at least not outright make things up.

 

[pruman91]

Illini Nation , welcome to the NEW world of FREE Agency in college BB........

If a player doesn't like constructive criticism.........bail..............

If a player doen't like the NIL slice of the pie.........bail.............

If a player doesn't like being played out of position.......Bail.............

In no way am I criticizing Mr. Epps......not at all......He has an option now that would of cost him a year of waiting to play at a new destination in the past ....But now , it's an option he has and is using .........

To the why he is transferring ????..........Unless Mr. Epps or BU puts out a statement telling all the internal stuff that led to this action , then we are going to be in the dark and I don't need any reasons why........I support BU to the Nth degree and I have my own ideas as to why.......but I am going to move forward and be excited to see who wants to be an ILLINI.....It's really that simple for me....

It really really is ..........The horse is dead .....please stop beating it any more ................jmho

 

[illini0440]

I will share a story from the 2018 Maui Invitational tournament. I got into a closed practice for Illinois the day before the tournament started at the local high school gym. I personally witnessed Brad Underwood call a player a pu$$y multiple times for losing the ball to a defender. “You’re a p$$y” and “You’re soft as ####” over and over for about a minute. This was in front of the entire team and a group of young basketball kids who were also there watching the practice. It was a terrible thing to watch, very uncomfortable and I’m all for tough love but don’t see how that was coaching. The player was Alan Griffin.

Go watch a coach K, Izzo, Cal, Huggins practice....heck even Self.

 

[IlliniForceOne]

Go watch a coach K, Izzo, Cal, Huggins practice....heck even Self.

Fletcher: "I was there to push people beyond what's expected of them. I believe that is an absolute necessity. Otherwise, we are depriving the world of the next Louis Armstrong, the next Charlie Parker."

Andrew: "But is there a line? You know, maybe you go too far, and you discourage the next Charlie Parker from ever becoming Charlie Parker?"

Fletcher: "No, man, no. Because the next Charlie Parker would never be discouraged."

 

[Florida_Illini]

Goodbye Jayden. Hope your career trajectory is more Pods than Adam Miller or Andre Cuerbelo.

Was averaging 30 mpg as a freshman till concussion knocked him out at end of season.

Wherever you go you will have to improve your game

- defense
- less turnovers
- better ball handling

Not many 6'2 shooting guards in NBA.

-----
Skyy leaving after getting benched I get. He thought he was one and done NBA bound. Jayden was doing very well but ran into the end of season wall (as did most of the team). Not sure it will be easier anywhere else.

Agree with your points, Defense for sure, but he actually averaged less than 1.5 turnovers a game. I remember hearing an announcer in a recent game say that he had a very strong streak towards the end of the year with very few turnovers... No assists to speak of, but he did take care of the ball. Someone is going to get a quality player, and i guarantee that Underwood's emphasis on defense will stick with him in his next stop. I still look forward to watching him progress.

 

[skyIdub]

I will share a story from the 2018 Maui Invitational tournament. I got into a closed practice for Illinois the day before the tournament started at the local high school gym. I personally witnessed Brad Underwood call a player a pu$$y multiple times for losing the ball to a defender. “You’re a p$$y” and “You’re soft as ####” over and over for about a minute. This was in front of the entire team and a group of young basketball kids who were also there watching the practice. It was a terrible thing to watch, very uncomfortable and I’m all for tough love but don’t see how that was coaching. The player was Alan Griffin.

I'm sorry, your avatar prevents me from reading anything you post.

 

[ILLFAN67]

I never heard why the player from France left. Does anyone know?

Immediate playing time and a pro contract in France