Pregame: Illinois vs Morehead State, Thursday, March 21st, 2:10pm CT, truTV

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#426      
One thing that is strange when looking at clips of Morehead State is Riley Minnix, who is their star player but is only listed at 6'7. But in the clips it always looks like he is towering over people trying to guard him.

It makes you realize how small a lot of these OVC teams are and that should be a huge advantage for us. It's been months since they have seen an opponent as big and athletic as the Illini.

Coleman has three inches on him and the athleticism and length to make him have to work hard for his points. We should be able to play Coleman and Dain together a fair amount as well with Coleman on Minnix and Dain on Miles, their big man. The one advantage Minnix has over Coleman is he has the strength to back him down in the post, but the extra height from Coleman could help there too.
 
#427      

CoalCity

St Paul, MN
If you're not scared of any opponent in the NCAA tournament you're doing it wrong IMO.

40 minutes and you're gone, it's a ruthless, cruel event. That's why it's magic.
I dont think you should approach any competition, whether it's the NCAA Tournament or life in general, "scared". Respect the opponent yes, but the minute you're scared, you're done. And your first 40 minutes will be your last. If you dont go into it confident, you might as well stay in street clothes.
 
#428      
What I love is that opposing coaches have to come up with 2-3 game plans to account for our various weapons and the diversity of styles we can throw at them.

Either the Batman is going to swoop past you (or through you) before you can react, or Robin is going to grind you down to dust…
Not sure of a nickname for TSJ yet - maybe the Flash. But Domask is Captain America.
 
#430      
I really hope that Underwood can sit down with Rodgers and talk with him about just how important it is that he stays out of foul trouble in this tourney. I believe he is a huge factor on how far this team goes. I don't want any of his fouls to be more than 5 feet from the basket. No silly reach in fouls or body check fouls 30 feet from the basket. If you watch our older players, some may get frustrated when they just let a guy score, but they also know it's just one basket and they are much more important than that. Rodgers is huge for us in so many ways down the stretch, obviously we don't want anyone to have foul trouble, but I feel the others can play within themselves to get through it. This isn't saying coach hasn't been preaching this before I'm just hoping he is drilling it into his head......we talk about the big three......to me he is the key how far this team goes. IMHO
I want our guys to foul a little more if that is the price of toughening up the defense. It seems like we are always trying not to foul, especially Coleman on the inside, and we give up easy layups. Think we need to hard contest a few shots. We can live with one of our guys getting two early in the first. But we are going to need to step up the pressure, especially once we get to game 2 or 3 in order to win.
 
#431      
One thing that is strange when looking at clips of Morehead State is Riley Minnix, who is their star player but is only listed at 6'7. But in the clips it always looks like he is towering over people trying to guard him. It makes you realize how small a lot of these OVC teams are and that should be a huge advantage for us. It's been months since they have seen an opponent as big and athletic as the Illini. Coleman has three inches on him and the athleticism and length to make him have to work hard for his points. We should be able to play Coleman and Dain together a fair amount as well with Coleman on Minnix and Dain on Miles, their big man. The one advantage Minnix has over Coleman is he has the strength to back him down in the post, but the extra height from Coleman could help there too.
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He is like their version of marcus Domask. I think we can rotate Coleman, Dain, and Quincy on Riley to wear him down.
Moorehead is not a big team. They only play their big 20 minutes a game. I suspect Dain can handle him.

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#432      
I want our guys to foul a little more if that is the price of toughening up the defense. It seems like we are always trying not to foul, especially Coleman on the inside, and we give up easy layups. Think we need to hard contest a few shots. We can live with one of our guys getting two early in the first. But we are going to need to step up the pressure, especially once we get to game 2 or 3 in order to win.
Respect and agree to a point..... less of the and 1's because of soft fouls would be great. But I will still sacrifice some buckets sometimes to make sure the last 7 to 10 minutes the guys can go all out. Prime example is Coleman....watch him at the end of some games he dominated defensively in the late game, after giving up a few points early. I would much rather have my top guys at the end and Rodgers is a huge part of that in this tourney
 
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#434      
Minnix got 18 vs Purdue and Zedey. Only got 11 vs Indiana bigs.
In their 4 games vs Power 5 they lost by 32, 30, and 23. They did give Indiana a good game but
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Indiana is just a terrible offensive team who could not shoot freethrows 57%
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#435      
View attachment 32412
He is like their version of marcus Domask. I think we can rotate Coleman, Dain, and Quincy on Riley to wear him down.
Moorehead is not a big team. They only play their big 20 minutes a game. I suspect Dain can handle him.

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Will be a handful, I am just hoping we can somewhat contain him while concentrating on running the others off the 3 point line. All year we have done pretty well forcing 3pt shooting teams to shoot two's, I hope this game is no exception
 
#437      
Some here are like:

Wizard Of Oz Dorothy GIF


We just won the B1G, we're top 10 in the country, and pulled a #3 seed in the Dance. If we'd been offered that back in October, every one here would have taken those results.

B56740AC-8453-46C9-9569-5CF1F94B6B63_1_201_a.jpeg


We've got maybe the best coach in our history (that story is not yet written), a team with elite talent, and the mindset of warriors. I'm going to enjoy every minute the rest of the way, whether it's 40 minutes or 240 minutes, and I'm betting it's closer to the 240.


FE4D65F1-2224-4304-93B2-4BC90F402CE8.jpeg
 
#438      
Some here are like:

Wizard Of Oz Dorothy GIF


We just won the B1G, we're top 10 in the country, and pulled a #3 seed in the Dance. If we'd been offered that back in October, every one here would have taken those results.

View attachment 32417

We've got maybe the best coach in our history (that story is not yet written), a team with elite talent, and the mindset of warriors. I'm going to enjoy every minute the rest of the way, whether it's 40 minutes or 240 minutes, and I'm betting it's closer to the 240.


View attachment 32418
PREACH!!!!!!!
 
#439      

danielb927

Orange Krush Class of 2013
Rochester, MN
Morehead State and BYU are similar offensively - both take a lot of threes (25th and 2nd in D-I, respectively, in 3PA/FGA). More importantly, both rely heavily on threes for scoring (37th and 2nd in % of total points from threes).

That sounds like a trivial distinction but I think it may be kind of important given our defensive philosophy. Rather than a 1D spectrum (more <-> fewer), I can see three types of teams when it comes to three-point shooting. Here's what I mean:

Sharpshooters (Low Attempts, High Scoring)
On one extreme, you have teams like Kentucky, Northwestern, and Virginia - let's call them sharpshooters. They all shoot a below average number of threes, but get an above average portion of their points from three. If you're data-minded, you'd probably infer that these teams make a high percentage of their threes - and you'd be right. All are top 50, and UK/NW are #1 and #4 in D-I.

Defending these teams is tough. You want to limit their threes because they're disproportionately effective, but at the same time, they're already disciplined enough to only take good threes - and thus, they likely know how to use overly aggressive closeouts as opportunities for something else.

We saw this dynamic against NW this year. Both times, we held them well below their average rate of three attempts. And they shot even better than normal on the remaining ones - 50% in the blowout at SFC, and 61% in the rematch. Our strategy didn't seem to hurt our 2P defense the first time (38%, well below their average), but did the second (53%, a bit above), and so we went 1-1 in those games despite scoring 90+ both times.

Chuckers (High Attempts, Low Scoring)
On the other extreme, you have teams like Maryland, K State, and Texas A&M - let's call them chuckers. They all shoot an above average amount of threes, but score a below average portion of their points from three. As you can guess, these teams make a low % of their threes - all 3 are bottom-100, with MD and K State being bottom-20.

Defending these teams is interesting. They shoot threes but don't make many - so do you still limit their attempts, or let them chuck? Our philosophy seems to be the former; I think this is pretty justifiable since three-point shooting is notably quite random even across a whole season. But at the same time, these teams get above-average scoring from twos and free throws; in running them off the line even more aggressively, you may be pushing them towards their more efficient shots.

We saw this in the two Maryland games. In both games, we held them well below their season average attempt rate from three, and they shot about the same (bad) both times. At home, they shot 54% from two and won; in the rematch, they shot 49% from two and lost - in both cases they were above-average from two for their season.

Balanced (High/High or Low/Low)
Morehead State and BYU both fit this bill on the High/High side. They shoot a lot of threes, and they get a lot of their point from three. IMO that lines up best with our defensive philosophy, because threes are something that they both want to do (high attempt rate) and do reasonably well (high % of points).
 
#440      

ChiefGritty

Chicago, IL
Morehead State and BYU are similar offensively - both take a lot of threes (25th and 2nd in D-I, respectively, in 3PA/FGA). More importantly, both rely heavily on threes for scoring (37th and 2nd in % of total points from threes).

That sounds like a trivial distinction but I think it may be kind of important given our defensive philosophy. Rather than a 1D spectrum (more <-> fewer), I can see three types of teams when it comes to three-point shooting. Here's what I mean:

Sharpshooters (Low Attempts, High Scoring)
On one extreme, you have teams like Kentucky, Northwestern, and Virginia - let's call them sharpshooters. They all shoot a below average number of threes, but get an above average portion of their points from three. If you're data-minded, you'd probably infer that these teams make a high percentage of their threes - and you'd be right. All are top 50, and UK/NW are #1 and #4 in D-I.

Defending these teams is tough. You want to limit their threes because they're disproportionately effective, but at the same time, they're already disciplined enough to only take good threes - and thus, they likely know how to use overly aggressive closeouts as opportunities for something else.

We saw this dynamic against NW this year. Both times, we held them well below their average rate of three attempts. And they shot even better than normal on the remaining ones - 50% in the blowout at SFC, and 61% in the rematch. Our strategy didn't seem to hurt our 2P defense the first time (38%, well below their average), but did the second (53%, a bit above), and so we went 1-1 in those games despite scoring 90+ both times.

Chuckers (High Attempts, Low Scoring)
On the other extreme, you have teams like Maryland, K State, and Texas A&M - let's call them chuckers. They all shoot an above average amount of threes, but score a below average portion of their points from three. As you can guess, these teams make a low % of their threes - all 3 are bottom-100, with MD and K State being bottom-20.

Defending these teams is interesting. They shoot threes but don't make many - so do you still limit their attempts, or let them chuck? Our philosophy seems to be the former; I think this is pretty justifiable since three-point shooting is notably quite random even across a whole season. But at the same time, these teams get above-average scoring from twos and free throws; in running them off the line even more aggressively, you may be pushing them towards their more efficient shots.

We saw this in the two Maryland games. In both games, we held them well below their season average attempt rate from three, and they shot about the same (bad) both times. At home, they shot 54% from two and won; in the rematch, they shot 49% from two and lost - in both cases they were above-average from two for their season.

Balanced (High/High or Low/Low)
Morehead State and BYU both fit this bill on the High/High side. They shoot a lot of threes, and they get a lot of their point from three. IMO that lines up best with our defensive philosophy, because threes are something that they both want to do (high attempt rate) and do reasonably well (high % of points).
The hypothetical good news in the event both us and BYU win, is that in many ways BYU presents a similar challenge to Morehead State, there won't be a radical shift in game plan.

BYU plays faster of course, but we should be happy for that.
 
#442      

The Galloping Ghost

Washington, DC
Morehead State and BYU are similar offensively - both take a lot of threes (25th and 2nd in D-I, respectively, in 3PA/FGA). More importantly, both rely heavily on threes for scoring (37th and 2nd in % of total points from threes).

That sounds like a trivial distinction but I think it may be kind of important given our defensive philosophy. Rather than a 1D spectrum (more <-> fewer), I can see three types of teams when it comes to three-point shooting. Here's what I mean:

Sharpshooters (Low Attempts, High Scoring)
On one extreme, you have teams like Kentucky, Northwestern, and Virginia - let's call them sharpshooters. They all shoot a below average number of threes, but get an above average portion of their points from three. If you're data-minded, you'd probably infer that these teams make a high percentage of their threes - and you'd be right. All are top 50, and UK/NW are #1 and #4 in D-I.

Defending these teams is tough. You want to limit their threes because they're disproportionately effective, but at the same time, they're already disciplined enough to only take good threes - and thus, they likely know how to use overly aggressive closeouts as opportunities for something else.

We saw this dynamic against NW this year. Both times, we held them well below their average rate of three attempts. And they shot even better than normal on the remaining ones - 50% in the blowout at SFC, and 61% in the rematch. Our strategy didn't seem to hurt our 2P defense the first time (38%, well below their average), but did the second (53%, a bit above), and so we went 1-1 in those games despite scoring 90+ both times.

Chuckers (High Attempts, Low Scoring)
On the other extreme, you have teams like Maryland, K State, and Texas A&M - let's call them chuckers. They all shoot an above average amount of threes, but score a below average portion of their points from three. As you can guess, these teams make a low % of their threes - all 3 are bottom-100, with MD and K State being bottom-20.

Defending these teams is interesting. They shoot threes but don't make many - so do you still limit their attempts, or let them chuck? Our philosophy seems to be the former; I think this is pretty justifiable since three-point shooting is notably quite random even across a whole season. But at the same time, these teams get above-average scoring from twos and free throws; in running them off the line even more aggressively, you may be pushing them towards their more efficient shots.

We saw this in the two Maryland games. In both games, we held them well below their season average attempt rate from three, and they shot about the same (bad) both times. At home, they shot 54% from two and won; in the rematch, they shot 49% from two and lost - in both cases they were above-average from two for their season.

Balanced (High/High or Low/Low)
Morehead State and BYU both fit this bill on the High/High side. They shoot a lot of threes, and they get a lot of their point from three. IMO that lines up best with our defensive philosophy, because threes are something that they both want to do (high attempt rate) and do reasonably well (high % of points).
Yup. And then Iowa State has a very similar defensive philosophy to NW, which we put up over 90 on twice. Yes, the teams are more highly rated than we would have liked in a perfect world, but the matchups are in our favor.
 
#443      
Morehead State and BYU are similar offensively - both take a lot of threes (25th and 2nd in D-I, respectively, in 3PA/FGA). More importantly, both rely heavily on threes for scoring (37th and 2nd in % of total points from threes).

That sounds like a trivial distinction but I think it may be kind of important given our defensive philosophy. Rather than a 1D spectrum (more <-> fewer), I can see three types of teams when it comes to three-point shooting. Here's what I mean:

Sharpshooters (Low Attempts, High Scoring)
On one extreme, you have teams like Kentucky, Northwestern, and Virginia - let's call them sharpshooters. They all shoot a below average number of threes, but get an above average portion of their points from three. If you're data-minded, you'd probably infer that these teams make a high percentage of their threes - and you'd be right. All are top 50, and UK/NW are #1 and #4 in D-I.

Defending these teams is tough. You want to limit their threes because they're disproportionately effective, but at the same time, they're already disciplined enough to only take good threes - and thus, they likely know how to use overly aggressive closeouts as opportunities for something else.

We saw this dynamic against NW this year. Both times, we held them well below their average rate of three attempts. And they shot even better than normal on the remaining ones - 50% in the blowout at SFC, and 61% in the rematch. Our strategy didn't seem to hurt our 2P defense the first time (38%, well below their average), but did the second (53%, a bit above), and so we went 1-1 in those games despite scoring 90+ both times.

Chuckers (High Attempts, Low Scoring)
On the other extreme, you have teams like Maryland, K State, and Texas A&M - let's call them chuckers. They all shoot an above average amount of threes, but score a below average portion of their points from three. As you can guess, these teams make a low % of their threes - all 3 are bottom-100, with MD and K State being bottom-20.

Defending these teams is interesting. They shoot threes but don't make many - so do you still limit their attempts, or let them chuck? Our philosophy seems to be the former; I think this is pretty justifiable since three-point shooting is notably quite random even across a whole season. But at the same time, these teams get above-average scoring from twos and free throws; in running them off the line even more aggressively, you may be pushing them towards their more efficient shots.

We saw this in the two Maryland games. In both games, we held them well below their season average attempt rate from three, and they shot about the same (bad) both times. At home, they shot 54% from two and won; in the rematch, they shot 49% from two and lost - in both cases they were above-average from two for their season.

Balanced (High/High or Low/Low)
Morehead State and BYU both fit this bill on the High/High side. They shoot a lot of threes, and they get a lot of their point from three. IMO that lines up best with our defensive philosophy, because threes are something that they both want to do (high attempt rate) and do reasonably well (high % of points).
So you're saying that because our defense likes to focus on forcing teams to shoot from two instead of three, we're better off against teams like BYU and Morehead because it would make them uncomfortable and they turn to shots they don't like taking?

Whereas against Maryland, forcing them away from shooting the three actually helped their offense because the Terps are more dangerous when they focus more on scoring inside the arc because they shoot so poorly from three?

Would a good low/low example be Indiana?
 
#444      

danielb927

Orange Krush Class of 2013
Rochester, MN
So you're saying that because our defense likes to focus on forcing teams to shoot from two instead of three, we're better off against teams like BYU and Morehead because it would make them uncomfortable and they turn to shots they don't like taking?

Whereas against Maryland, forcing them away from shooting the three actually helped their offense because the Terps are more dangerous when they focus more on scoring inside the arc because they shoot so poorly from three?

Would a good low/low example be Indiana?

Indiana is a great low/low example - bottom 15 in D-I in both attempt rate and point percentage from three.

I think your summary is basically what I'm saying, yep—with the big caveat that I just thought this up today and have no idea if it's really borne out by any data or actual coaching/strategy experience!
 
#445      
The hypothetical good news in the event both us and BYU win, is that in many ways BYU presents a similar challenge to Morehead State, there won't be a radical shift in game plan.

BYU plays faster of course, but we should be happy for that.
That’s right…

They do offer similar challenges. Clearly, we be taking Morehead for granted.
I’d bet all the Mormon gold in Utah that Morehead State is gonna offer some stiff competition…really gonna have to be up for that one. Morehead might indeed be a harder out than some believe. Obviously, it remains to be seen what will actually transpire; but we definitely have the length and depth to go the distance.
 
#447      
He is like their version of marcus Domask. I think we can rotate Coleman, Dain, and Quincy on Riley to wear him down.
Moorehead is not a big team. They only play their big 20 minutes a game. I suspect Dain can handle him.
They have pretty good size, imo. They love when they can go 'small' with Minix at the five, which looks like this

True PG Drew Thelwell 6'3 185
2nd scorer (1st team all OVC) Jordan Lathon 6'4 200
Three point sniper Kalil Thomas 6'5 190
Defensive ace/6th man Eddie Ricks III 6'7 205
Star (OVC player of the year) Riley Minix 6'7 230

... but no issues going big with a true staring Center Dieonte Miles 6'10 220
and a thick backup for him Zach Iyeyemi 6'9 250

Illinois is a bit bigger but not demonstrably so. Dane and their backup big are around the same, their Center is around the same height but weighs more than Coleman. Harmon and their guards are around the same size. Similar to Rodgers, Lathon rebounds really well, but Rodgers does have a size edge there.
 
#450      
The nightmare of playing Illinois is that we'll run so much offense against your 4th and 5th best defenders with bigger and longer players.

We don't force things to a given player in the half court, we're always probing the different matchups looking for a weakness and with our talent there usually is one.

The good news of playing against Illinois is that we let teams be themselves on offense. That's gonna bite us eventually.
I dunno who it would be exactly. But the teams that are able to just kinda hang around, get stops & dictate tempo scare me the most.

Good defense CAN certainly neutralize good offense. Particularly if: we have an off offensive game, struggle to board and thus fail to establish the break as efficiently as we would like…

then said team is able to turn it into a grindy slow-down half court slug-fest.

Also, teams with deceptive attacks -
/multiple looks on the press might be an issue. Again I don’t know who it would be…? But we’ve struggled with organization and composure at times.

Anywho, I’m feeling good so I’m gonna chase these thoughts away. Lol
 
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