Duke 110, Illinois 67 Postgame

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#451      
OrangeBlue98
Last night changed the messaging for Josh Whitman, in my opinion.

Now he needs to demand that Underwood fires Hamer and work to get Tyler a new job next year. Those are the two non-negotiables. If Underwood refuses, then Whitman tells him he won't stand in his way as he applies for jobs.

I just don't want Sampson or Pearl to win a national title. I REALLY don't want to support Chris Beard, but if either of them win a national title (and REALLY if both make the Final Four) I'm checking my ethics and morals at the door.
 
#452      
Orangetool
I started to listen to Brad's post game comments but had to stop when he had the temerity to say "it's just one game."
I suppose he is technically correct as each of the bad losses in this season collapse is "just one game" after another but come on.

Unbelievable.
 
#454      
Illiniindian
As long as Underwood can recruit at the level he did with this year’s class, we will be fine. A coach who can bring in two first round draft picks is a Coach Whitman will keep.
 
#455      
OrangeBlue98
the juiceman cometh said:
Yeah, BU needs to exhibit a lot of humility. This is 100% his worst season since he got the team turned around. Worse even than 2022-2023.He needs to acknowledge that or it'll be impossible to connect.

I also think at this point he's earned the opportunity to do so. This season has been an absolute letdown, and I hope he can really internalize that fact and channel it into something better.
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He has earned that opportunity, but things have to change. Whitman can't just say, "Keep doing what you're doing." As said earlier, minimum is that Tyler and Hamer are replaced. Those have to happen. I'm fine if Tyler finds a new job and they announce it as such. Hamer doesn't get that - he just needs to be fired.
 
#456      
pruman91
I'm looking at zero AP votes and a serious drop in bracketology predictions.........we should begin to prepare for some major predictions being made with the Illini and first 4 out or even 2nd four out levels........we stink a deep stink and it's like a fish that stinks at the head level all the way down to the scaley tail............a vomitas amount of methane and sodium stink that turns the most stout stomachs into a puking machine of historical olfactory abuse to the Illini Nations core..........

this season has been and is an ELITE epic FAIL........no way to polish this season's turd results in a better frame of recognition......

Thank the Ancients for the Illini FB and WBB program's continued approach as every day athletes.......the MBB approach should be graded as a once in a while day athletes with potential to be an average team or being an extremely bad embarrassing lost group of NIL paid lackadaisical wannabes....................

where do we go from here....????...........don't know and frankly at this moment in time I don't have the mental capacity to even explore it.......

WORST LOSS IN PROGRAM HISTORY !!!!!!!!!!!!!......step back and let that fact sink in.......................you really really should............
 
#457      
BoiseBaller
the sports sage said:
When we are talking about large victory margins, what stood out in this game is that it was a late-season non-conference game in a legendary arena in front of a national audience and sellout crowd.

If you are one of the two teams, that should be more than enough incentive to be fired up.

Duke pulled it's starters with 6-and-a-half minutes remaining and was able to even get down to the walk-ons and maintain/increase the margin of victory against Illinois, which had all/some of its starters on the court until the final horn.
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I have to think that no matter how good the players are, there has to be a feeling of hopelessness from them when you get blitzed early and know that the leadership can't/won't make adjustments to counter what is going wrong. I'd bet dollars to donuts that once they see the gameplan isn't going to work, one of two things happens - they either mentally start to give up, or they start to freelance and try to do too much on their own. I think both are evident at times.
 
#458      
ILL-Intentions
7.7%… im a late 30s guy who probably made about that percentage in highschool on about 2 ppg average. I shot better than this at my nieces birthday party in a game of horse
 
#459      
Trueblue777
Lifelong Illini fan here. I did not watch the game or the Wisconsin game as it is simply not enjoyable to watch this team. And I see no hope of this coaching staff turning this train wreck around. Terrible evaluations and roster construction. This is a broken team. If they make the tournament it’s going to be one and done.
 
#460      
doowink
Was out late last night and just now finished watching last nights game….WOW… when a team goes this badly in the matter of a little over a month, I am blaming both coaching staff and players. If we have possibly 3 first round draft picks (and right now I don’t see that happening) and get throttled by over 40 pts, I’m sorry that’s not only on the coaches but also on our players. Talent, some individual pride, and just the desire to not be embarrassed should factor into how you perform or coach. I just didn’t see any of that in last night’s game. I hate to say this but, unless we get things miraculously turned around right now, this season needs to end quickly…continued play similar to last night will really damage the status and reputation of our program’s good run and success over past 5-6 years. Something is terribly wrong both on and off the court.
 
#461      
Mr. Roberts
This team went from a 32 point record setting win over a top 10 opponent t on their floor to a 43 point record.setting loss on national TV.

This isn't just coaching adjustments, shot selection, injuries, or an off night. Something is seriously off the rails. Maybe.its just me, but I am getting the same vibe I got in Weber's last year.
 
#462      
…INI
Key points from the post game presser

1. Cooper Flagg is great. Other teams are great.

2. We shot 2-26 from 3. Nobody wins shooting that poorly.

3. We depend on the shooting. The poor shooting affects other parts of our game.

What happened to always playing good defense even when shots don’t fall? What happened to we’re going to be tougher than the other team? The media guys asked leading questions for those responses.

That presser was soft with an “oh well” vibe. It left little confidence that things will improve.
 
#463      
blackdog
aaeismacgychel said:
I'll actually step up and defend Brad a little for saying that we "If we're just 5 for 16 from 3 at half (32%), it's a 2pt game. I thought we got great shots."

Here's the thing, we actually did get great shots that entire 1st half. The threes we took were some of the highest quality threes we took all season. An average college player will indeed hit at least 5 of those 16 threes almost every night. An elite three point shooter probably hits over 50% on those type of looks most nights. But that's the problem. We simply don't have that player on the team. We have nobody who can hit an open three at even a replacement player rate.

Point is those 1st half threes are threes every single shooter across the country would be salivating to take. They were mostly wide wide wide open in rhythm. Duke had about the exact same quality and hit 50%. We hit 0%. The problem isn't the quality of shots we were creating most drives, it's that Brad somehow managed to build a team predicated on making threes and yet has nobody on the team who can do it, let alone do it consistently.

I have no problem whatsoever with most of the threes we took that 1st half. Hell, Jaxon freakin' Kohler a career 25% shooter from 3, shot 80% on practically as wide open threes as we got that half. I do have a problem with the fact that nobody on our team seems capable of making an open three and that our coaching staff hasn't adjusted to that fact and installed an offense that makes a much much much greater focus on us getting shots inside the arc.

The shots we got were extremely high quality for anyone remotely capable of hitting threes. Unfortunately we don't have those players, so it doesn't even matter that they're high quality. We can't make them. So Brad's not wrong in what he said, but I do agree it's missing the point in that why are we shooting threes so often when nobody on our team can even hit open ones. With Beckman, it was more like if only we didn't give up 4 of those touchdowns and we scored 2 of our own, we would've won. At least making 5 of 16 threes should be remotely possible even though it apparently isn't for this team.
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The most confusing thing about this whole season is all of these guys came in being able to shoot (except maybe Tre). It absolutely blows my mind that an entire group of players just forgets how to shoot the ball. They've collectively lost confidence and everyone seems more focused on just shooting the shot and not concentrating on MAKING the shot.

Edit: the team also shot 60% on 2s and got good looks from basically everywhere all night against a really tough Duke team. Outside of an absolutely dumbfounding inability to shoot the ball the offense is way less a problem than the defense.
 
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#464      
rbse
Losing Johnson was like losing the glue that held this mess together, he is the only Big Ten tough player we have. Brad better build a better brain trust or he will be on the outside looking in, the man can't win close games with the support/advice he's currently getting. Fix it or hit the bricks
I feel sorry for our guys, no leader on the floor or bench
 
#465      
Illini in Indiana
rbse said:
Losing Johnson was like losing the glue that held this mess together, he is the only Big Ten tough player we have. Brad better build a better brain trust or he will be on the outside looking in, the man can't win close games with the support/advice he's currently getting. Fix it or hit the bricks
I feel sorry for our guys, no leader on the floor or bench
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Yes, players like Morez, Ty, and Sincire can pick up a team with their effort. We don't have that guy right now.

Sometimes it's not about analytics. I'm sure we'll trust AI to simulate to get us a number though.
 
#466      
illini55
Illiniindian said:
As long as Underwood can recruit at the level he did with this year’s class, we will be fine. A coach who can bring in two first round draft picks is a Coach Whitman will keep.
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It's one thing to bring in the talent after an Elite 8 run, quite another to find additional first round talent on a tanking team with those previous first round talents in the NBA.
 
#468      
Capt.Illini1975
SAELION said:
Every three Illinois took was wide open because Duke packed it in and knows Illinois can't makes threes.
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I so agree. Deon said our guards were going side to side and not downhill to the rim. Well it is hard to do that when the other team has all those lanes blocked. Teams will continue that defense against us until we make them pay.
I also think this is becoming psychological for our lads. You go 0-19 against a tough MSU squad. You have a miserable game in Madison for all sorts of reasons. And then you hit the trifecta. 0 for 16 on mostly good looks while Duke is shooting them at a rate of 50%. On national TV to top it! You could see our boys tightening up. Wishing their shots to go down and not stepping in and shooting to make them. It was so hard to watch.
 
#469      
Second place is 1st loser
Paignmanagement said:
A good coach adjusts his offense and defense based on what he/she has. Not always going to get the “perfect” 5 guys for your “system.” 95% of college coaches would salivate to have the opportunity to coach these players
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I don't disagree with this. However, short of hiring a shrink, how do you coach guys who are historically good shooters to start making shots again? That's where the issue is. A month and a half ago, this was probably 7 of 26(still bad), but two and a half months ago it is 11-26.....wasn't if 16-30 in a game? You're talking about 30 point swings in some cases.

The fans have lost complete faith is these kids to be able to shoot and want them to pass up open looks because they're frustrated with their remote controls and TV. The head coach can't do that.

If they were throwing up contested 30 footers because the shot clock was running down all the time, I'd agree with you. That's not happening here. Guys are getting good looks and just aren't knocking them down. It's between the ears and 100% confidence right now. This is a team where the confidence spreads. When they see three or four go down, an avalanche of them follow, which opens EVERYTHING up. That's why Tomi is SO important.
 
#471      
Paignmanagement
Second place is 1st loser said:
I don't disagree with this. However, short of hiring a shrink, how do you coach guys who are historically good shooters to start making shots again? That's where the issue is. A month and a half ago, this was probably 7 of 26(still bad), but two and a half months ago it is 11-26.....wasn't if 16-30 in a game? You're talking about 30 point swings in some cases.

The fans have lost complete faith is these kids to be able to shoot and want them to pass up open looks because they're frustrated with their remote controls and TV. The head coach can't do that.

If they were throwing up contested 30 footers because the shot clock was running down all the time, I'd agree with you. That's not happening here. Guys are getting good looks and just aren't knocking them down. It's between the ears and 100% confidence right now. This is a team where the confidence spreads. When they see three or four go down, an avalanche of them follow, which opens EVERYTHING up. That's why Tomi is SO important.
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Appreciate your take. I am not a coach by any means but to answer your question if a team is shooting threes poorly and their two point shots are falling then that should be an obvious clue to have them shoot the higher percentage shots. Play to the player’s strengths. So BU told everyone at the beginning this was a fantastic team with great shooters. I’m not arguing that they are not but they are clearly better as a group at shots inside the 3 pt line. Just my thoughts
 
#472      
illini80
To be clear, I am not advocating for his removal, but does anyone know what Underwoods buyout is? I didn’t follow it, but I assume he got an extension after last year and it would be a big number. He’s done a poor job of handling a difficult season and changes clearly need to be made. I’m hoping mostly for the players sake they can turn it around. Team moral has to be cratering right now. Coaches have to walk a fine line between building their confidence and pushing them hard to correct a multitude of mental errors.
 
#473      
Second place is 1st loser
RollChief said:
Along with pru, haven’t read the rest of the comments here, but just chiming in to share sentiment from another group im apart of:

It’s seriously inexcusable, I’ve been trying and I can’t justify keeping brad at this point. It’s cute that is son is one of the head AC’s for one of the top ten funded college basketball programs and brad himself is getting paid more than almost any coach but after a loss like this I’m thinking about if I’m one of the guys who donated $100K and brought your friends and family out to this game what do you think… what an embarrassment. Brads press conference after the game is an embarrassment that lacked accountability and control of a major program. We as die hard dedicated fans deserve better than this.
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I thought his press conference was good because it is that simple. 2-26. Guys need to make them. Period. If they shoot even reasonably well, 11 of 26(still not great), that's a 27 point point swing and there's some real game pressure, so, he's not wrong.

The other issue is rebounding. Without Morez, we have nobody who embraces contact and competitiveness in the paint. The amount of Duke putbacks was inexcusable, but we didn't have anyone to stop that. Tomi just isn't tough enough. He's a Euro five. He got beat up.

Now, if I had one issue with Brad, it's the roster construction. He went against all of his principles. He coaches older teams, physical teams, punch you in the mouth teams, teams with leadership skills, teams where there's no panic because of experience.....not sure what made him go this route, but he did.

He's got a team of talented players, but they are extremely young and they lack size. When you have an entire roster overhaul, this is what you get. Whoever thought this was going to be a nice, smooth transition from last year's team. Injuries and illness hasn't helped, but this team is not digging in defensively, they are making bad plays down the stretch (youth), we're losing late leads(youth) and we have nobody who will take a kid by the jersey and get order without needing to take a timeout 30 seconds before a TV timeout.

There's a reason that this team didn't start in the top 25. It's not a shock, but if ANYONE said they could predict this shooting. ....their FOS.
 
#474      
Illiniindian
illini55 said:
It's one thing to bring in the talent after an Elite 8 run, quite another to find additional first round talent on a tanking team with those previous first round talents in the NBA.
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Yes, and if Underwood recruiting slips, then he should be replaced. He inherited a train wreck and turned it around so I don’t think that will be an issue. But time will tell.
 
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