Coaching Carousel (Basketball)

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#101      
K State does not have more NIL than us lol. They aren't far off, but that's simply not true. We have the second or third most in the B10, which is way more money making than the big 12.

For the love of god, this fanbase is trying to force Brad out. The likelihood he leaves is slim to none.
 
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#103      
I'm generally in the camp of BU has earned more time to right the ship. But the Loyola loss is squarely on him and will probably hang over his head forever unless he makes a Final Four. If I take my orange glasses off, what Moser did that game was one of the best coaching performances I've seen. That wasn't just a scrappy mid major who caught fire from three as often happens in tourney upsets. They knew exactly how they could hurt us. They inserted the knife and twisted it over and over and we looked more confused than anything.

Anyway, if we win that game, BU is pretty much on track. I've posted this before but every coach who has been here for 9+ years has made multiple S16's in their first 9 years. And this is how it breaks down by decade starting in the 80s:

80s: 4 S16
90s: 0 (sanctions)
00s: 4
10s: 0 (Inept leadership)
20s: 1

The way I see it, BU has one more year to get one more S16 and if he does that, then he gets four to make it to two. Longer leash than most here have for him but it just doesn't seem reasonable, IMO, to fire a guy for failing to do something that literally no one in our history has done - go to the 2nd weekend 5 times in a decade.
I mostly agree with you with a couple of caveats.

(1) If BU tries to play other jobs off JW to get another raise after a season like this, then JW should let him walk.
(2) Were any of those previous examples cases where we were paying top 10 money? Yes, we haven't done 5+ sweet sixteens in a decade before, but we also haven't paid this much before as far as I know. Results should be commensurate with pay, so we ought to be expecting better than we are getting.
(3) Maybe the tourney is too much of a wild card to be the metric here. In which case we still ought to be finishing the season ranked in the top 10 roughly half the time if we are paying top 10 money.
 
#104      
K State does not have more NIL than us lol.

For the love of god, this fanbase is trying to force Brad out. The likelihood he leaves is slim to none.
That's good. As long as we still have booster/donor support - ie continuing NIL resources - to try correct our roster mistakes for next year than I want Brad to have a shot at getting back on track next year.

edit: still want to see at least a defensive assistant coach change, and also preferably a second assistant coach hire to help with in-game coaching, Xs and Ox, BLOBs, SLOBS, etc.
 
#105      
K State does not have more NIL than us lol.

For the love of god, this fanbase is trying to force Brad out. The likelihood he leaves is slim to none.
I could maybe see a case where a coaching hire that really excites their donors could lead to a temporary surge in NIL that passes us. But I would find it very hard to believe that KState's long-term, year-to-year NIL potential is higher (or even particularly close) to ours.

But, then again, I have no concrete data to back this up.
 
#108      
That being said, I’m very weary of us being able to replace BU with a coach that could outperform what BU has done. .

I’m not. Look at Illinois as a pro sports franchise that pays its players top dollar. Any coach should be able to win with the amount of money being spent on the roster. And if they can’t, they should be replaced.

Nobody says Ryan Day is a great coach. But he won a national title 100% due to Ohio State spending what it needed to construct that roster. If Day hadn’t won it this year, he’d absolutely have been replaced.

Given what IL basketball team spend on its roster, I expect most big time doners feel the same way. They think if enough money is spent, that winning should be expected. And certainly on a level as high or higher than what Underwood has done
 
#109      
I don’t think K State would want to wait until April 30th just to save $1 million …
Just a logistic question but what’s the difference between buyout and what is listed here?
 

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#110      
Letting him go ??? Don’t think that would happen …

Not begging him to stay ??? Think that could happen …
I have a hard time believing a school is paying a $15 million buyout to the U of I to get Underwood. That’s a lot of money for a 61 year old coach who has made 1 Sweet 16 and doesn’t know Xs and Os and isn’t particularly well liked by his fanbases, players or coaches
 
#112      
K State does not have more NIL than us lol. They aren't far off, but that's simply not true. We have the second or third most in the B10, which is way more money making than the big 12.

For the love of god, this fanbase is trying to force Brad out. The likelihood he leaves is slim to none.
THANK YOU!!!
 
#113      
Either way-the fanbase should not be stressing though. Like I said, little chance of him leaving, but if he does, very confident in Whitman's ability to make a home run hire, especially given the buyout money we would have to work with.
To be fair, I am stressing about the current season. All coaching speculation on my part (and it is exactly that: speculation) is to distract me from the dumpster fire that our team has become at the moment. I also recognize the possibility that they get healthy, break their slump, and start playing decent again (though I have stopped holding my breath).
 
#114      
Every time I read Josh will be PROACTIVE not REACTIVE, I take it as Illinois will be the first domino or no domino at all.
Being proactive can also mean that he has feelers out now (and basically at any time) and has a pretty good pulse on what other coaches on his list would have interest in any given off-season. It doesn't have to mean that we are the first domino.
 
#115      
K State does not have more NIL than us lol. They aren't far off, but that's simply not true. We have the second or third most in the B10, which is way more money making than the big 12.

For the love of god, this fanbase is trying to force Brad out. The likelihood he leaves is slim to none.
Do we have an Insider standoff happening here? Is Underwood's agent NOT actively looking at other opportunities for his client? And if he is, is any of it serious or just fodder to throw at Whitman ("See, my client is still a hot commodity!")?
 
#116      
Every time I read Josh will be PROACTIVE not REACTIVE, I take it as Illinois will be the first domino or no domino at all.

If he wants to be proactive, go get Jay Wright out of retirement or convince Bill Self that the Big 10 is better than the Big 12.

I really think given what this athletic dept is willing to spend, Whitman should shoot for the stars.
 
#118      
To be fair, I am stressing about the current season. All coaching speculation on my part (and it is exactly that: speculation) is to distract me from the dumpster fire that our team has become at the moment. I also recognize the possibility that they get health, break their slump, and start playing decent again (though I have stopped holding my breath).
Completely agree, and would only add that part of this is that I think we've identified seem glaring roster construction issues with the benefit of hindsight, and those aren't fixable until next year, obviously. But I'm optimistic that they can be fixed for next year. Oh and same goes for the assistant coaching situation - tough to fix that mid-year, but confident it can be fixed in the off-season.
 
#120      
I mostly agree with you with a couple of caveats.

(1) If BU tries to play other jobs off JW to get another raise after a season like this, then JW should let him walk.
(2) Were any of those previous examples cases where we were paying top 10 money? Yes, we haven't done 5+ sweet sixteens in a decade before, but we also haven't paid this much before as far as I know. Results should be commensurate with pay, so we ought to be expecting better than we are getting.
(3) Maybe the tourney is too much of a wild card to be the metric here. In which case we still ought to be finishing the season ranked in the top 10 roughly half the time if we are paying top 10 money.
1 - Agree. This has rubbed me the wrong way every time he's done it.
2 - Fair point. Going to guess that Henson and Weber were not top 10 paid coaches. Though I have no idea.
3 - Also fair. He's finished the season ranked in the top 10 twice since 2020. So he's slightly behind on that metric too. Would have to finish top 10 two or three more times in the next four years to hit that mark. This would be a pretty unprecedented feat though. Since before BU got here we only finished in the top 10 11 times since 1949. But back to your second point, how many of those were top 10 paid coaches?
 
#121      
I mostly agree with you with a couple of caveats.

(1) If BU tries to play other jobs off JW to get another raise after a season like this, then JW should let him walk.
(2) Were any of those previous examples cases where we were paying top 10 money? Yes, we haven't done 5+ sweet sixteens in a decade before, but we also haven't paid this much before as far as I know. Results should be commensurate with pay, so we ought to be expecting better than we are getting.
(3) Maybe the tourney is too much of a wild card to be the metric here. In which case we still ought to be finishing the season ranked in the top 10 roughly half the time if we are paying top 10 money.
Expectations are always tricky, because you have to balance short-term and long-term. I also am somewhat careful on exactly how much to weight the NCAA tournament, because single-elimination events do sometimes produce unexpected results. I'd probably start with these. Others can tell me if I'm way off base or not.

Regular season - Top 6 in the league pretty much every season (I know there will always be an outlier season with injuries or some other very unusual event), top 4 (which I would say is contending for a regular season conference championship) 2 out of every 3 seasons. That may be too strict, so if anyone has a better baseline I'm willing to adjust.

Post-season - Over the long-term, Illinois should play within (-1) game of its seed line for both the BTT and the NCAA. So in a year where Illinois is a 2 seed, (-1) would be Sweet 16. If they were a 1 seed, then (-1) would be Elite 8 since chalk is all 1 seeds making a Final Four. There will always be a year where an upset occurs. I'd also say that a 1 seed losing in the Elite 8 to a 2 seed or a 2 seed losing to a 3 seed in the Sweet 16 (like what Illinois did to Iowa State last year) isn't really an upset. To me, that feels like a reasonable long-term expectation that would show issues if a team consistently was a high seed and losing in the first or second round.

But maybe I'm overthinking this too much (and I likely am here).
 
#122      
1 - Agree. This has rubbed me the wrong way every time he's done it.
2 - Fair point. Going to guess that Henson and Weber were not top 10 paid coaches. Though I have no idea.
3 - Also fair. He's finished the season ranked in the top 10 twice since 2020. So he's slightly behind on that metric too. Would have to finish top 10 two or three more times in the next four years to hit that mark. This would be a pretty unprecedented feat though. Since before BU got here we only finished in the top 10 11 times since 1949. But back to your second point, how many of those were top 10 paid coaches?
I think the moral of the story here is that I should really get back to work.
 
#123      
If Brad comes to Josh talking about leaving, he should be out the door and locked out of the gym in minutes. The teenage coaches should be gone with him.

The Loyola game IMHO Underwood knew that what they had been doing would be too much for Loyola. Loyola looked at what we had been doing and devised a way to stop it. Underwood was flabbergasted and didn't have any idea how to respond.
 
#124      
I think that's my question here (and I don't know the right answer). Is paying OA worth that much if we can't also have some good Xs and Os coaches? High-end players without a good strategy is AAU ball.

We can afford both … We simply didn’t capitalize on the move to 5 assistants … I made a post here and maybe someone can find it but I said this is the time to take advantage of this rule and gain a leg up, get some guys in here that can coach X&O and/or bring in a guy who’s tied in with elite talent …

Texas Tech uses this rule to their advantage … As does Ole Miss … Instead we promoted Hamer and Tyler …
 
#125      
K State does not have more NIL than us lol. They aren't far off, but that's simply not true. We have the second or third most in the B10, which is way more money making than the big 12.

For the love of god, this fanbase is trying to force Brad out. The likelihood he leaves is slim to none.
again, do you think Brad is a top 10 coach? Do you have any concerns about the future direction of the program? Do you doubt Whitman's ability to hire an excellent coach? Is it acceptable for our program to get beat by 43?
 
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