Coaching Carousel (Basketball)

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#601      
The Sprouting Divot
the juiceman cometh said:
Yet this argument always boils down solely to tournament results, because he's overperformed this "top-10" expectation in every way other.
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Well of course it does - you took exception to Pasasena's (agreed, very ambitious) S16 expectations, so that's what we're talking about.

I don't have a long list of candidates (and I don't care to spend my Sunday morning assembling one), but off the top of my head, but I would take Will Wade, Chris Beard if Whitman was satisfied with his baggage (but I certainly wouldn't argue with anyone who was angry about that hire), Grant McCasland, Tommy Lloyd, and probably a handful of the various other "hot name up and comer" types, though I would be more reluctant to make a change with a less proven commodity.

I'm not necessarily advocating for a change. I trust Whitman unquestionably and absolutely.

But between the blowouts, the "big lead early but slowly piss down our legs and lose in familiar fashion because the other coaching staff made adjustments and we didn't" sorts of losses, and our current trend of failing to perform to seeding expectations, I think it's perfectly fair and reasonable to expect more than what Underwood's trends currently suggest. And I bet he would agree with me about that last part.
 
#602      
Jules Winnfield
Bro UNLV has absolutely no NIL money. Remember the fiasco with the UNLV quarterback last season. UNLV can barely pay their coaches a decent salary
 
#603      
PasadenaIllini
The Sprouting Divot said:
Well of course it does - you took exception to Pasasena's (agreed, very ambitious) S16 expectations, so that's what we're talking about.

I don't have a long list of candidates (and I don't care to spend my Sunday morning assembling one), but off the top of my head, but I would take Will Wade, Chris Beard if Whitman was satisfied with his baggage (but I certainly wouldn't argue with anyone who was angry about that hire), Grant McCasland, Tommy Lloyd, and probably a handful of the various other "hot name up and comer" types, though I would be more reluctant to make a change with a less proven commodity.

I'm not necessarily advocating for a change. I trust Whitman unquestionably and absolutely.

But between the blowouts, the "big lead early but slowly piss down our legs and lose in familiar fashion because the other coaching staff made adjustments and we didn't" sorts of losses, and our current trend of failing to perform to seeding expectations, I think it's perfectly fair and reasonable to expect more than what Underwood's trends currently suggest. And I bet he would agree with me about that last part.
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If Brad refuses to acquiesce to bringing in new coaches in place of TU and Hamer, I feel we are forced into make a coaching change, but otherwise I wouldn't make a change at this time.
 
#605      
The Sprouting Divot
NarrowJ said:
I believe Coach K and Tom Izzo are the only modern era coaches to accomplish this (outside of there might be a couple current coaches who have been at high majors for 2 seasons and made 1 sweet 16, for example)

So... its probably not reasonable

at all

idk
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Is that statistic considering across each coaches' entire career record, or just the years when they made the tournament, like how I framed Underwood's failure to meet seed expectations (and even then, only at Illinois) above?

I realize that's a weird and presumably much more difficult statistic to look up, so I assume that we're not exactly making even comparisons.
 
#606      
the juiceman cometh
The Sprouting Divot said:
Well of course it does - you took exception to Pasasena's (agreed, very ambitious) S16 expectations, so that's what we're talking about.

I don't have a long list of candidates (and I don't care to spend my Sunday morning assembling one), but off the top of my head, but I would take Will Wade, Chris Beard if Whitman was satisfied with his baggage (but I certainly wouldn't argue with anyone who was angry about that hire), Grant McCasland, Tommy Lloyd, and probably a handful of the various other "hot name up and comer" types, though I would be more reluctant to make a change with a less proven commodity.

I'm not necessarily advocating for a change. I trust Whitman unquestionably and absolutely.

But between the blowouts, the "big lead early but slowly piss down our legs and lose in familiar fashion because the other coaching staff made adjustments and we didn't" sorts of losses, and our current trend of failing to perform to seeding expectations, I think it's perfectly fair and reasonable to expect more than what Underwood's trends currently suggest. And I bet he would agree with me about that last part.
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Chris Beard and Will Wade haven't made the S16 since before COVID.

Grant McCasland has never made the S16. Tommy Lloyd is 2/3 in making the S16, but has never made it past the S16 (BU has). And I'd be surprised if he'd leave Arizona to come here.

Could any of these coaches do better here than BU? Sure it's possible. But it's definitely not a guarantee and the only one who has arguably actually been better is Lloyd, and he's probably not a realistic candidate to come here.
 
#608      
NarrowJ
The Sprouting Divot said:
Is that statistic considering across each coaches' entire career record, or just the years when they made the tournament, like how I framed Underwood's failure to meet seed expectations (and even then, only at Illinois) above?

I realize that's a weird and presumably much more difficult statistic to look up, so I assume that we're not exactly making even comparisons.
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I took it literally how I read it 🤷‍♂️

"How about reaching the S16 more than half the time?"

If there is more nuance to this expectation than what I initially read, I admit, I miss some context at times because I tend to skim these threads when I get too far behind
 
#609      
BashCtIllini
NarrowJ said:
I took it literally how I read it 🤷‍♂️

"How about reaching the S16 more than half the time?"

If there is more nuance to this expectation than what I initially read, I admit, I miss some context at times because I tend to skim these threads when I get too far behind
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It's not about making a Sweet 16 in isolation, it's about playing to seed. I don't expect an 8 seed team to make the Sweet 16, they'd have to get through the 1 seed. But when we're the 1 seed and can't get through the 8, that angers people. Underwood has not played to seed in the tournament except for 1 season.
 
#610      
PasadenaIllini
NarrowJ said:
Sweet 16s:

Will Wade: 1 in 11 years
Chris Beard: 2 in12 years
Grant McCasland: has never been there
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I'm throwing the Chris Beard comparison out, because our AD won't hire him, but the comparison this comment attempts to make between reasonable expectations for Brad at Illinois and McCasland/Wade have no merit at all. Will Wade was at LSU the past 5 years which is not a basketball program with our level of facilities or setup. Before that, he was at VCU and Chattanooga. McCasland moved to Texas Tech in 2023. Prior to that, he was at North Texas and Arkansas State.
 
#611      
NarrowJ
Indy Illini Fan said:
I’m not going to judge any coach on their ability to get Arkansas State, Chattanooga, North Texas, VCU, Mcneese State and Little Rock to the 2nd weekend consistently …
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They still haven't gotten there "every other year" so ok, take off a few years but those coaching resumes aren't any more impressive than we currently have (and those guys have serious baggage as well).
 
#612      
Indy Illini Fan
NarrowJ said:
They still haven't gotten there "every other year" so ok, take off a few years but those coaching resumes aren't any more impressive than we currently have (and those guys have serious baggage as well).
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Who said anything about getting there every year ?

Would I like to get there more often than once in 8 years … Yes … I don’t think that’s too high of an expectation …
 
#613      
Jules Winnfield
Collins would be absolutely insane to leave Northwestern a Big Ten school to go to Villanova especially with what’s coming down the pipeline with revenue sharing and NIL . These smaller schools and conferences are not going to be able to compete with The Big Ten and ACC the days of Jay Wright Villanova are gone. People need to stop living in the past and see what’s ahead
 
#614      
NarrowJ
Indy Illini Fan said:
Who said anything about getting there every year ?

Would I like to get there more often than once in 8 years … Yes … I don’t think that’s too high of an expectation …
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I said "every other year" which is what I just read a few posts ago and is what I was responding to

Not "every year"... nobody said that

I'd like to get there more often too, but "every other year" isn't really a reasonable expectation imo (not to mention none of the 'hot name' replacements being mentioned show any shred of evidence that they could do any better)
 
#615      
NarrowJ
BashCtIllini said:
It's not about making a Sweet 16 in isolation, it's about playing to seed. I don't expect an 8 seed team to make the Sweet 16, they'd have to get through the 1 seed. But when we're the 1 seed and can't get through the 8, that angers people. Underwood has not played to seed in the tournament except for 1 season.
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I'm not trying to grade coaches on only tournament success

It sucked losing in 2nd round as a 1... it happens though

Edit: the most recent evidence available is an E8 last year
 
#616      
NarrowJ
PasadenaIllini said:
I'm throwing the Chris Beard comparison out, because our AD won't hire him, but the comparison this comment attempts to make between reasonable expectations for Brad at Illinois and McCasland/Wade have no merit at all. Will Wade was at LSU the past 5 years which is not a basketball program with our level of facilities or setup. Before that, he was at VCU and Chattanooga. McCasland moved to Texas Tech in 2023. Prior to that, he was at North Texas and Arkansas State.
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Regardless, they do not have better resumes than what we currently have. These guys are still unproven themselves and/or carry serious baggage.

Sorry, but no thanks
 
#618      
IllinitripleJ
Indy Illini Fan said:
I expect more than 1 second weekend run in 8 years …
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FYI, In 21 years of coaching at Illinois Henson made the sweet 16 four times ( 1981, 1984, 1985 & 1989) and Kruger never made the sweet 16 in four years (3 NCAA tournaments). Self in three years did it twice, Weber in 9 years did it twice (2004 & 2005) and Groce never made the Sweet 16 in 5 years of coaching at Illinois (only made the NCAA tournament once and that was with Weber's recruits). Underwood before this year only made the Sweet 16 once (2024). So in the past 50 years Illinois has made the Sweet 16 9 times. That is about once every 6 years.
 
#621      
Illinimark
If Brad decides to leave for a fresh start elsewhere we are going to have to search for a credible replacement. If that happens I would not be opposed to kicking the tires on Chris Collins and his assistant Lowery. With our NIL and Alumni support I think Collins would be a star here. His X and O tactics have proven to be effective. He also seems to get the best out of his players. On balance when one considers just how great a job he has done at an historic "dumpster fire" program" the other candidates just don't match up. If a program like Villanova's first choice is Chris Collins then you can bet that Collins' name is at the top of Whitman's list.
JMHO
 
#622      
pruman91
the snarkyness in this thread is disheartening to say the least and I won't participate at all in the discussion , but can't we just agree to disagree and respect each others opinion without a " print it out and cram it " type reference .........we are all ( I hope ) Fighting Illini fans first and foremost and should be looking to the Selection Sunday show to find out our path in the NCAA Tourney.......

BTW , has anyone got ANY proof or whatnot that JW or BU are even considering a change in the Illini coach for next year or even any year in the foreseeable future ?????.................this thread has devolved into a clusterf**k of gripes , delusional thoughts and certain coaches being put on pedestals with enough baggage to stagger the minds of reasonable thinking fans...............

I need to avoid these types of threads that take on the attitude of a game thread..............they only grind down into a sludge pond...........

they really really do.................just a little modicum of respect would be appreciated by all sides........JMHO........
 
#623      
FrankNitty30
O
PasadenaIllini said:
We insist that TU and Hamer find employment elsewhere. We use our ample funding to hire top level assistants who know what they're doing. Not family members learning on the job. Not NBA errand boys. We plan our recruiting better so that we have more than one guy who can defend post players with any heft down low. We focus on the transfer portal so that we don't wind up with a team with so much youth. This is for starters.
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Once again roster construction isn’t the problem. Tyler, isn’t the problem. Hamer? Yes, a problem.

TBH…… my biggest issue with Brad is “why do so many players want to leave?”

Why does Coleman leave because it is “mutually agreed” to part ways?

Does Brad have a Sméagol problem where he is always looking at the next thing as his “precious” and therefore moves on from the known asset. Or, is he just an a-hole that slowly erodes at some people?

Those are the things I worry about more.
 
#624      
Second place is 1st loser
The fact that we're talking about coaching changes 5 hours before the selection show blows my mind. This tournament is what about 75% of the people on this board judge our season on(which is ridiculous), yet we still don't have an outcome. Last year getting to the Sweet 16 was supposed to end this nonsense, yet here we are.
 
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#625      
Bogey99
Indy Illini Fan said:
Who said anything about getting there every year ?

Would I like to get there more often than once in 8 years … Yes … I don’t think that’s too high of an expectation …
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Well, BU is 1 for 6 right now, so he’s got two more chances. Why do you keep saying ‘8 years’ when this year isn’t finished and there wasn’t even a tournament one year?
 
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