Coaching Carousel (Basketball)

[sacraig]

I expect more than 1 second weekend run in 8 years …

I largely discount the first 2 years due to rebuilding a poverty program, then the third due to covid. And this season isn't over. So I think the more fair metric is 1 second weekend run in 4 years, which still isn't acceptable, in my opinion, but less dire.

But I also would really like to not keep embarrassing ourselves in tournament games. Loyola-Chicago, Houston, Arkansas, UConn... Also embarrments because we either lost while heavily favored or were totally non-competitive as the underdog.

Is getting to the sweet 16 every other year a bit optimistic? Maybe, though I would think a top 10 paid coach should produce top 10 results, both in the regular season and the NCAA Tournament. Brad has arguably accomplished one of those two.

 

[NarrowJ]

Well, BU is 1 for 6 right now, so he’s got two more chances. Why do you keep saying ‘8 years’ when this year isn’t finished and there wasn’t even a tournament one year?

Yep, 1 in 8...

don't understand including the 2 seasons that were spent resurrecting the program

don't understand including the COVID season which there was no tournament

don't understand including this season (his 8th) which has no result yet

This is just obvious axe grinding and complete misstatement of facts

The number is 1 in 4

 

[FrankNitty30]

So what should our expectations be? Consistently contending for conference championships and the second weekend isn't realistic?

This isn't the Guenther years, where being above .500 and not getting in NCAA trouble were the biggest expectations.

Know they shouldn’t be the expectation. It can be a hope, even a REALLY STRONG hope. Since 1985, there have been 2600ish teams trying to get to the sweet 16. 3, have had a 9 year streak of sweet sixteens, with Mark Few having a chance to make history this year. Then there is only like 6 other teams that even have a streak of 5 or more.

To make it a little more contemporary, since 2000 only 10 programs have made 10 Sweet 16s. Only 4 (Duke, Kansas, Kentucky and MSU) have made it half the time. So the expectation that we are always competing for a Sweet 16 is unrealistic for the University of Illinois AND most every other program in the country.

In fact the only bad loss in the tournament has been to Loyola.

 

[FrankNitty30]

How about reaching the S16 more than half the time? Is that a reasonable expectation?

Setting aside the rebuilding and C19 seasons, he's currently at 25% with a #1, #4, #9, and #3 seed. Failed to perform to seeding 75%.

Tournament results aren't the only thing that matters, but I don't agree that what we've seen so far is a "reasonable" level of expectation.

Here is the list of teams that have made a sweet 16 half the time in the last 24 years.

Duke- 15/24
Kansas- 13/24
Kentucky 12/24
Michigan St. 12/24

That is it. That’s the list. With two only meeting your “expectation”, one barely clearing your “expectation” and 1 comfortably being the best Men’s basketball coach of all time.

We have an expectations problem.

 

[rmlsr]

Brad Underwood has built back Illinois into a yearly big ten contender. Brad Underwood has underachieved in the NCAAT. Both can be true. Neither alone makes him a great or awful HC.

For better or worse, as long as underwood keeps getting high seeds in the tournament, he should 100% be the HC here.

“Illinois a yearly big ten contender”

Two years ago we tied for 5th
This year we tied for 7th.
People need to stop acting like we are constantly fighting for Big10 championship cause two out of the last three years we were not even close.

 

[NarrowJ]

“Illinois a yearly big ten contender”

Two years ago we tied for 5th
This year we tied for 7th.
People need to stop acting like we are constantly fighting for Big10 championship cause two out of the last three years we were not even close.

There's so much reaching and cherry picking going on in these discussions

We also won the B1G conf tourney 2 of the last 4 years (which is also cherry picking)

Just look at the resume as a whole, that's the fair way to make an assessment

 

[BashCtIllini]

I'm not trying to grade coaches on only tournament success

It sucked losing in 2nd round as a 1... it happens though

Edit: the most recent evidence available is an E8 last year

When you get to the top echelons of coaching, that's how it works. If you think that's not fair, then you're probably not in the right profession.

 

[abchew2]

Well, BU is 1 for 6 right now, so he’s got two more chances. Why do you keep saying ‘8 years’ when this year isn’t finished and there wasn’t even a tournament one year?

That Covid year is a good point missed here. That team was hungry and very well was set to make noise. Potentially don’t have the one seed the next year if Ayo left after that but that was a darn good team hitting their stride late that doesn’t get included.

 

[Boomauer]

This last year was crazy with 2 assistants leaving and almost no players returning..
with the 2 returners either redshirting or barely playing. Very good recruiting and portal kept us highly competitive.
Will this next year be just as volatile? 1-2 new assistants and possibly 4-7 current players moving on one way or another. Will the 2 high school recruits stay committed after Brad shops the portal. Next year could look just like last year...totally new team. Is everyone ready for that? As someone posted before...don't get too attached to any player.

 

[NarrowJ]

When you get to the top echelons of coaching, that's how it works. If you think that's not fair, then you're probably not in the right profession.

How what works?

Who is out here firing coaches that have his results/resume?

I think maybe you have no idea 'how it actually works'

 

[The Sprouting Divot]

Here is the list of teams that have made a sweet 16 half the time in the last 24 years.

Duke- 15/24
Kansas- 13/24
Kentucky 12/24
Michigan St. 12/24

That is it. That’s the list. With two only meeting your “expectation”, one barely clearing your “expectation” and 1 comfortably being the best Men’s basketball coach of all time.

We have an expectations problem.

That's a lot less than I would have guessed (though the 24 year timespan is a pretty significant factor here - I would be curious about a 10 year span, or even the four years that Underwood has made the tournament at Illinois...) and I agree on a long-term basis, that's rarefied air and an unreasonable baseline standard. Thanks for doing the legwork to put that into perspective.

Nevertheless, and without staking myself to a bright line criteria, I do feel like we've underachieved in the tournament more often than not.

I'd also like to be less disappointed in how we seem to lose so many of our games (i.e., blowouts, or just plain blowing it) under Underwood.

I wish I wasn't so skeptical about our ability to string together a run this postseason. I truly hope to feel very foolish about this in a few weeks.

 

[Indy Illini Fan]

Here is the list of teams that have made a sweet 16 half the time in the last 24 years.

Duke- 15/24
Kansas- 13/24
Kentucky 12/24
Michigan St. 12/24

That is it. That’s the list. With two only meeting your “expectation”, one barely clearing your “expectation” and 1 comfortably being the best Men’s basketball coach of all time.

We have an expectations problem.

Whitman’s expectation is competing for big ten and national championships year in and year out …

We don’t have an expectations problem …

 

[blueguy]

If Golden leaves, we might see more details leaked about his Title IX investigation from Florida.

If Florida was a bubble team rather than a top 5 team he likely would have been let go based on what I have heard

 

[Indy Illini Fan]

I largely discount the first 2 years due to rebuilding a poverty program, then the third due to covid. And this season isn't over. So I think the more fair metric is 1 second weekend run in 4 years, which still isn't acceptable, in my opinion, but less dire.

But I also would really like to not keep embarrassing ourselves in tournament games. Loyola-Chicago, Houston, Arkansas, UConn... Also embarrments because we either lost while heavily favored or were totally non-competitive as the underdog.

Is getting to the sweet 16 every other year a bit optimistic? Maybe, though I would think a top 10 paid coach should produce top 10 results, both in the regular season and the NCAA Tournament. Brad has arguably accomplished one of those two.

Agreed … Brad has done a lot of great things … Elite 8 … Conf championships … He also has had 3 first team all Americans and has one second weekend to show for it … He also owns the worst season in program history and the worst loss in program history …

I don’t want Brad gone but I want to see progress towards sustained March success … Staff changes need to be made … It’s not negotiable at this point …

 

[Indy Illini Fan]

If Florida was a bubble team rather than a top 5 team he likely would have been let go based on what I have heard

Lol …

 

[the juiceman cometh]

I’m not going to judge any coach on their ability to get Arkansas State, Chattanooga, North Texas, VCU, Mcneese State and Little Rock to the 2nd weekend consistently …

What about LSU? Wade's five seasons at LSU vs Brad's last 5 here, which is better?

 

[DeonThomas]

Here is the list of teams that have made a sweet 16 half the time in the last 24 years.

Duke- 15/24
Kansas- 13/24
Kentucky 12/24
Michigan St. 12/24

That is it. That’s the list. With two only meeting your “expectation”, one barely clearing your “expectation” and 1 comfortably being the best Men’s basketball coach of all time.

We have an expectations problem.

Say what?

 

[Indy Illini Fan]

What about LSU? Wade's five seasons at LSU vs Brad's last 5 here, which is better?

Pretty tough to compare a bottom feeder SEC program to a top 3 Big Ten program right ??? But sure let’s compare …

Will Wade … 0 losing seasons …

 

[sacraig]

Here is the list of teams that have made a sweet 16 half the time in the last 24 years.

Duke- 15/24
Kansas- 13/24
Kentucky 12/24
Michigan St. 12/24

That is it. That’s the list. With two only meeting your “expectation”, one barely clearing your “expectation” and 1 comfortably being the best Men’s basketball coach of all time.

We have an expectations problem.

And that's exactly the group we should be aspiring to join.

 

[Indy Illini Fan]

And that's exactly the group we should be aspiring to join.

 

[sacraig]

Agreed … Brad has done a lot of great things … Elite 8 … Conf championships … He also has had 3 first team all Americans and has one second weekend to show for it … He also owns the worst season in program history and the worst loss in program history …

I don’t want Brad gone but I want to see progress towards sustained March success … Staff changes need to be made … It’s not negotiable at this point …

I'm at the point where I wouldn't push him out, but also wouldn't be too broken up if he takes the KSU job or another opening. I trust Whitman.

 

[NarrowJ]

LSU is a good program lol what the hell? seriously

They have more final fours than we do in the modern era and might even have better win percentage too (didn't look)

 

[sacraig]

If Florida was a bubble team rather than a top 5 team he likely would have been let go based on what I have heard

If my grandma had wheels, she'd be a wagon.

 

[Indy Illini Fan]

LSU is a good program lol what the hell? seriously

They have more final fours than we do in the modern era and might even have better win percentage too (didn't look)

Shaq ain’t walking through that door …

They’re bottom 4 in the SEC in terms of resources for MBB …

 

[Illiniam1984]

I'm at the point where I would push him out, but also wouldn't be too broken up if he takes the KSU job or anothe opening. I trust Whitman.

I agree if they lose in the first round.