No we don't. Maybe in your mind and that of some other crazed Illini fans.
UConn 74, Illinois 61 Postgame
- Status
No one here is arguing that Ben should be playing 30 minutes plus a game, or that he should start. We are arguing that he deserves the tick he is getting.
Ben is not a playmaker assist guy. He rarely drives the ball for a kickout and he defers to the PGs to run the PNR. So yeah, he is not risking a lot of TOs. But he does handle the ball and TO is the same as losing a rebound - it is one less possession. If you don't cost your team possessions, that is a positive, and it is a rare player that does not do so - i.e. doesn't travel, doesn't misjudge a pass, doesn't commit an offensive foul or illegal pick, etc.
Ben is not a playmaker assist guy. He rarely drives the ball for a kickout and he defers to the PGs to run the PNR. So yeah, he is not risking a lot of TOs. But he does handle the ball and TO is the same as losing a rebound - it is one less possession. If you don't cost your team possessions, that is a positive, and it is a rare player that does not do so - i.e. doesn't travel, doesn't misjudge a pass, doesn't commit an offensive foul or illegal pick, etc.
I don't know for sure why he left, he didn't call me, but there were public complaints about PT early in the season.
I agree but Tyler runs the offense and Brad will not step in. We will keep launching threes.
To add, as much as ppl want to discount the lack of turnovers....consider that there are players on every team who are spot up shooters who dont drive and break down defense.
Looked at b10 rosters/stats......there is not a single rotation player who has 0 turnovers on the year besides ben per bigten.org
It was an issue last year too…passes are not good to open players. Messes up their shot. Whether caught bad, have to move, and players feel like they have to shoot it. Also some do not seem ready to shoot. Other times it’s rushed. Rarely an in rythym, good 3 pt shot.
Petro can get open more easily than Boswell but he is not as good a finisher at the rim. He is looking more for outlets once he gets by the first line of defense and his teammates have to get better at moving to the openings. Once they all get accustomed to each other the offense could really get a good rythem to it like Smith with Purrdont.
Last edited:
Our 1 seed team 5 years ago started the season off 5-3 with high major losses to a great Baylor team (won it all that year), Rutgers, and Miznoz. (Both decent tourney teams)
This one sucks. As did Bama.
And it’s disheartening to see all the clangs from 3, it really is.
But it’s a long season. Let’s recover from this one and back the team to gain a victory.
This one sucks. As did Bama.
And it’s disheartening to see all the clangs from 3, it really is.
But it’s a long season. Let’s recover from this one and back the team to gain a victory.
That's why I keep saying we should take the choice of what to do out of it. We should always hedge on pnr screens and stop the damn ball even if it's for only a second. The only choice that should be made is by the coaching staff of how hard to hedge or even trap to make the gaurd give up the ball. I don't understand why we won't regularly do that. Especially when it's obvious how much trouble it creates for us when the other teams hit us with hard hedges.
Whenever we made a run, they had a play drawn up. They were screening off the ball, screening for screeners, and almost always ended up with something at the rim with minimal contest.
We don't have that. Even at Tyler's best, it's been isolation and/or transition. You have so many options, but we don't have anything like what we saw from UConn today. It looked like our offense hadn't discovered fire while UConn was landing on the moon.
In my mind, Tyler is next up for the hot seat. We never have an answer in big games and struggle. He has some leash, but watching those two teams today, it couldn't have been any more obvious that one team was running an offense and one wasn't, at least one that works.
We don't have that. Even at Tyler's best, it's been isolation and/or transition. You have so many options, but we don't have anything like what we saw from UConn today. It looked like our offense hadn't discovered fire while UConn was landing on the moon.
In my mind, Tyler is next up for the hot seat. We never have an answer in big games and struggle. He has some leash, but watching those two teams today, it couldn't have been any more obvious that one team was running an offense and one wasn't, at least one that works.
"Loaded" may be a bit overblown. But in relative circumstance, it would not surprise me one bit if we had three guys go over 13 or 14ppg. That likely means three All BIG performers or near-about. I'd be shocked if Tomi didn't get right - today he had a double double and looked fairly okay in half 2.
With Mirkovic, the only real issue (offensively) is wild turnovers in transition trying to start a one man fast break, and taking too many threes. And his rebounding is undeniable. As the season progresses, he's very possibly a 10&8 type of player. Other than Coleman (who essentially played the 5), we've lacked that kind of pressense at the 4 spot.
Sprinkle in Petro, Wagler, Z, Ben... that's a solid 8 man rotation. We're not 2024 UConn, but in terms of pure talent, you'd be hard pressed to find more in our league besides Purdue and Michigan.
That does not point to talent being the problem.
Last edited:
I thought there were heartening things from this game. I was happy with the open looks but disappointed that Z kept taking them when his shots weren't close. I was really happy to see the team not give up. I don't understand the officiating.. I thought UConn should have had a lot more fouls when they set the tone early. Especially the number of times where they "recovered" on defense after being beaten. Then at least one sequence where they clearly fouled Tomi multiple times on a single Illinois possession near the hoop. And of course the over the back on the infamous four point play. I'm sure there were many missed calls that benefited us but i don't notice those.
I was really happy to see Tomi rebound so well in the second half against such an athletic and active team. Happy with the effort from Lee. Boswell obviously was great. I think this is a game where we'll be a lot better as a result. We weren't ready for the speed and physicality but adjusted by the end. I wish we had Tennessee in 3 days instead of 9.
I'm also team Ben gets too many minutes. I never worry he's going to lose the ball but it's a lot of minutes to get almost no stats. His wide open three on that scramble play could have been a difference maker in a comeback but yet another miss. Does anyone notice that Mirk looks down at the ball when he dribbles? Also why did that ugly floor need two three point lines?
I was really happy to see Tomi rebound so well in the second half against such an athletic and active team. Happy with the effort from Lee. Boswell obviously was great. I think this is a game where we'll be a lot better as a result. We weren't ready for the speed and physicality but adjusted by the end. I wish we had Tennessee in 3 days instead of 9.
I'm also team Ben gets too many minutes. I never worry he's going to lose the ball but it's a lot of minutes to get almost no stats. His wide open three on that scramble play could have been a difference maker in a comeback but yet another miss. Does anyone notice that Mirk looks down at the ball when he dribbles? Also why did that ugly floor need two three point lines?
I know you made this point at the end but it's really not even shooting a 3 but a lot of the types of 3s they are shooting.
Deep 3's like 5 feet behind the line. Launching them early in the shot clock and often when there isn't a single Illini inside the 3pt line to make an attempt at an offensive rebound.
I have no problem shooting a lot of 3s but you have to let them come in the normal flow of the offense. You can't just force them.
Don't sell the Team!!!! IT WILL BE OKAY
That's crap, look at Michigan! They have jelled even though Lendeborg and Johnson missed some time. This was an excuse for last years team they haven't jelled! These guys have the deer in the headlights look every time they play good opponents. They get punched in the mouth and they turn tail and hide!
OrangeBlue98
Iowa is not in a great spot right now (LvilleILL1)
- Des Moines, IA
I was trying to find the right analogy to convince those who are accepting the current situation. 30 years ago, my grandparents built a house they wanted to flip. It was a nice house in a good neighborhood, but they overpriced it and it wasn’t getting any looks. My mom and I told them to lower the price.
They kept saying things like “but the appraiser put this value on it”, “it’s brand new”, etc. We kept asking them “But is anyone offering at that price?” They lowered the price after three months, and it sold in a couple of weeks.
Our offense is great when beating up on Kenpom 300+ teams. But anytime we’ve played a reasonably athletic team since TSJ left, we struggle to score. Simple facts. I’m a fan of analytics as much as the next person, but at some point you have to look at reality and understand analytics aren’t always showing the full situation. Simply saying “Plan A, but better because analytics say so” doesn’t work. At some point, you have to accept reality and adjust even if analytics don’t say you should. This is basketball, not a stats class.
They kept saying things like “but the appraiser put this value on it”, “it’s brand new”, etc. We kept asking them “But is anyone offering at that price?” They lowered the price after three months, and it sold in a couple of weeks.
Our offense is great when beating up on Kenpom 300+ teams. But anytime we’ve played a reasonably athletic team since TSJ left, we struggle to score. Simple facts. I’m a fan of analytics as much as the next person, but at some point you have to look at reality and understand analytics aren’t always showing the full situation. Simply saying “Plan A, but better because analytics say so” doesn’t work. At some point, you have to accept reality and adjust even if analytics don’t say you should. This is basketball, not a stats class.
Good point.
But as I posted in another thread, over the last 5 games, we're ranked 40th on Torvik. That's a bubble team. Even when they were losing games, the 2021 team never had a 5 game stretch where they ranked that low and looked this bad.
I don't think it's the loss that has most people concerned, I think it's how we've looked during this stretch.
You're right - one loss won't hurt us. But if we keep playing like this, that will hurt us.
I don’t care to look because I’m about to go shovel some snow, but the last 5 games we beat Colgate by 20, played neck and neck with a top 10 team, throttled another team by 40 and then had two stinkers. Is it really just the past 2 games that are so horrendous that drag down the last 5? It is weird to me the Colgate/Bama/LIU stretch would be considered “bad basketball” in any way, shape or form if we are being truly objective about things here.
If we put the calculator down I think there’s a lot less impending doom than it would seem. We’ve had two games back to back wherein the first it looked like they just didn’t give a crap and the second where they couldn’t throw it in the ocean. If we play like this 2 game sample for the entire season, then yes things look super grim to me too, I’ll stay foolish for now though.
Last edited:
When you have to rack your brain to search for a really weird analogy like this one, that is called “mental gymnastics”
What is the alternative to accepting the current situation? I can’t change it. I can get angry, or upset. Is that what you’d like to see?
Last edited:
OrangeBlue98
Iowa is not in a great spot right now (LvilleILL1)
- Des Moines, IA
I’m guessing you were a full-throated Weber supporter.
I’ll never understand why so many “fans” accept mediocrity.
I’ll never understand why so many “fans” accept mediocrity.
Yeah, the last two definitely weigh down the average. If you look at those first three only, we rank 21. Last two only, we rank 114. But that still leaves the arrow pointing the wrong direction.I don’t care to look because I’m about to go shovel some snow, but the last 5 games we beat Colgate by 20, played neck and neck with a top 10 team, throttled another team by 40 and then had two stinkers. Is it really just the past 2 games that are so horrendous that drag down the last 5? It is weird to me the Colgate/Bama/LIU stretch would be considered “bad basketball” in any way, shape or form if we are being truly objective about things here.
If we put the calculator down I think there’s a lot less impending doom than it would seem. We’ve had two games back to back wherein the first it looked like they just didn’t give a crap and the second where they couldn’t throw it in the ocean. If we play like this 2 game sample for the entire season, then yes things look super grim to me too, I’ll stay foolish for now though.
Analytics aside, our three point shooting, defense, and overall cohesion haven't passed my eye test the last several games. I can convince myself that the cohesion will come. I'm worried about the others though.
The Sprouting Divot
Invisible and Bulletproof
- Miracle Mile
We've got a team built to dominate "modern" tournaments like the Players Era where there's an outsized emphasis on predictive statistical modeling and looking good on paper and less emphasis on old-fashioned things like actual, on-court performance.
So in summary, similar to the football team, we are a good but not great team. Illini fans are notorious in not accepting this simple statement.
Glad this thread has enough hot takes to keep everyone warm in this winter storm.
Rough game, but I still Ike this team, and think it will be a fun season to watch. I’m optimistic this team will continue to grow and get better and win some games in March.
Rough game, but I still Ike this team, and think it will be a fun season to watch. I’m optimistic this team will continue to grow and get better and win some games in March.
- Status