Speak of the devil...
UCLA 95, Illinois 94 OT Postgame
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Speak of the devil...
So many are acting like we just lost at home to a really bad team. We lost on the road to a tournament team with a good crowd looking for a bounce back and we lost at the buzzer in OT. Were there some things we could've done better? Of course. For one, Big Z needs to play about 5-7 more minutes a game. He's a game changer on defense and we get easy lobs to him and he can shoot the 3 and he's always in the mix rebounding.
Think about it, other than the UConn game early in the season before we found our identity our losses are to a ranked Alabama team where we missed FTs down the stretch by 4; a loss to a top 10 Nebraska team at the buzzer; a loss in OT by 2 on the road at Mich. St. when they needed a win; a loss in OT by 2 to Wisconsin when we were missing two starting guards; and a loss at the buzzer in OT to a solid UCLA team on the road. We are literally one bounce in our favor in 5 games to being no. 1 in the country and being 27-1.
We have a load of talent, we're a nightmare to guard, we're deep, we're long, we can shoot the 3, we can shoot FTs. We're a Final Four contender period. We need Big Z to play more minutes. I'd like to see him average 22-24 minutes/game. I know the obviously question is who do we take minutes from? The answers is nobody. You can literally take 1 minute away from each guy and he gets 7 right there. Although I'd pull 3-4 of the minutes away from Tomi. I like Tomi, but some bad turnovers, he gets too lackadaisical at times, he doesn't squeeze the ball with two hands and chin it.
We're in line for a 2 or 3 seed barring some crazy collapse which won't happen with this team. Let's say we finish the season and Big 10 tournament 4-2. We will finish 26-8 and I'm fine with a 2 or 3 seed at that point. Keeps us off the 4 seed line and we avoid a 1 seed in the Sweet 16 (a 4 seed should only happen if we collapse down the stretch). Make the Elite 8 and go all out against Duke, Michigan, Arizona, or ??? in the Final 4 and see what happens (and don't forget, March is crazy so we might meet a 4 or 5 seed in the Elite 8 if an upset happens in our quadrant). Excited for the stretch run!!! ILL!!!
We just aren’t fast enough unfortunately, not much you can do
CAIllini
- West Coast
What has frustrated me about BU throughout his tenure is he does not strategically use TOs to stop the other team’s momentum/run. Or when he does he waits till it’s tied or we lose the lead. It’s like he’s trying to prove we’re tough and let the players figure their way out of it. But every others team from Jr. High to the NBA proactively stops a run with a TO before it’s already killed them. It’s one of the few things the coach’s can actually do to impact the game directly. Stop the run, at least momentarily, and quiet the crowd on the road. I’d like to see some smarter TO management in this regard for the stretch run. It’s cost us a few games in my opinion.
(Also I hate when other coaches like Izzo work the refs relentlessly for calls, but it does pay dividends, especially at home, as the refs are human. While I appreciate that BU has cooled off his temper over the last few years, I’d still like to see him get mad when needed).
(Also I hate when other coaches like Izzo work the refs relentlessly for calls, but it does pay dividends, especially at home, as the refs are human. While I appreciate that BU has cooled off his temper over the last few years, I’d still like to see him get mad when needed).
RabidDawgClassic
- Los Angeles, CA
But it’s not a pattern, it’s a coincidence. The pattern is that we’ve won 22 of 28 games, most by decent to great margins. You’re not factoring in that we won close games against Texas Tech, at Purdue, at Nebraska, at Iowa and vs Tennessee.
The outliers are four games, three of which were in overtime and two of which were buzzer beaters. In a vacuum, those four games would present a pattern, but against the whole it’s merely a very frustrating coincidence.
Not gonna take luck. I pointed this out in the Bracketology thread. If we finish 16-4 we are getting the triple bye. If we finish 15-5 it's a strong possibility we are. We are still in 2nd place in the conference right now. Luck would require needing help. We control our destiny at this point.
We're not a champion and our coach is the reason. We've had plenty of championship level teams and our leader has consistently coached us to our death. And the loyalists to a fault act like people like me are the problem. YOU are content with finishing runner up. I want a championship. Underwood did his job by turning around our program and the next goal is a championship. Hes not the man for that, you people need to recognize this and not fight the people who are calling it what it is. We all want the same thing.
We go under screens about as often as we played zone before this year. (That’s pretty much never).
Bottom line: How far this team goes will, in large part, be determined by whether or not Cam Crocker and Brad Underwood can find a way to slow down quick, athletic guards. You’re not going to stop those types of players, but you can’t let them wreck the game and Illinois has been DESTROYED by those types of players.
Dent
Fears
Smith
Philon
Blackwell
Boyd
Thornton
You get the point. All great players and they ARE going to get things done, but we HAVE to make it more difficult for quality guards.
Dent
Fears
Smith
Philon
Blackwell
Boyd
Thornton
You get the point. All great players and they ARE going to get things done, but we HAVE to make it more difficult for quality guards.
Last night hurt worse than the usual loss.
All the Tennessee last second defensive woes, every OT game for the last 2 years, and "We are gonna keep going at Clingon" came flooding back. (Maybe throw in letting the best shooter in the nation have any mid-range shot he wanted vs UK in the tourney).
No amount of **taps sign** Brad's 20 win season streak is going to silence the haters.
Andddd if you are on X....they are out in full force and baby it's crow eating time for us Illinois faithful.
All the Tennessee last second defensive woes, every OT game for the last 2 years, and "We are gonna keep going at Clingon" came flooding back. (Maybe throw in letting the best shooter in the nation have any mid-range shot he wanted vs UK in the tourney).
No amount of **taps sign** Brad's 20 win season streak is going to silence the haters.
Andddd if you are on X....they are out in full force and baby it's crow eating time for us Illinois faithful.
That game was winnable with in game adjustments, sharp coaching, proper time management, prepared defensive out of bounds setups, etc etc.
Will we see that in March? Brad and staff have to prove that. Round of 32, Sweet 16 and Elite 8 games take more than just player talent alone. It takes keen and sharp coaching. I hope it happens.
Will we see that in March? Brad and staff have to prove that. Round of 32, Sweet 16 and Elite 8 games take more than just player talent alone. It takes keen and sharp coaching. I hope it happens.
You are right and it’s starting to drive me nuts when a point guard gets on a roll and we’re always on their back.
I am quite clearly not a coach, but against the bad shooters it seems to making life far more difficult than it needs to be - especially with our length.
Program loss, players and coaches. I did feel Brad was too comfortable when they started making their run. I’m over it.
The one thing that does concern me, unless the rules of setting a pick have changed since I played years ago, I cringe almost every time we try to set a pick. Seems like picker is moving his feet / body trying to get in position as he sets pick. If he’s not in the right spot, he keeps sliding over. I thought picker has to be set and ball handler had to drive his man into the SET pick? Thoughts?
The one thing that does concern me, unless the rules of setting a pick have changed since I played years ago, I cringe almost every time we try to set a pick. Seems like picker is moving his feet / body trying to get in position as he sets pick. If he’s not in the right spot, he keeps sliding over. I thought picker has to be set and ball handler had to drive his man into the SET pick? Thoughts?
Day after thoughts...
-- I think Andrej needs to be back in the starting lineup for Michigan. If you go back and look at the film you'll see several of those second chance points UCLA got were on Jake missing block outs, or just not being athletic enough to get the ball. We need Andrej's athleticism back in there to compete with the better teams, including Michigan's starting unit. (To be clear, Jake has been playing great and should get 18-20 minutes a game, just come off the bench).
-- Looking back at the film I see Kylan ball watching on defense many times, including the last play. He's a great on-ball defender but really needs to get more dialed in when he's off the ball, or switched on to someone else.
-- Who is our closer in the last two minutes? I love Keaton but he hasn't shown (at least yet) a proclivity to hit dagger shots at the end of a game. Missed great looks against MSU and UCLA. I don't see an Ayo or Trent -- a guy that absolutely wants the ball and will make the winning shot -- on this team. That's a problem.
-- I think we need to offload a bit more of the ball handling and initiator responsibility to Kylan to keep Keaton fresher in games. Maybe Keaton misses shots at the end of games because he's out of gas. I'd like to see us give Keaton 4-5 possessions more off the ball so he can rest, let Kylan or Mirk run stuff and Keaton be a spot up shooter only on those possessions.
-- Still have high hopes for this team, we can compete with anyone ... and will prove that on Friday night.
-- I think Andrej needs to be back in the starting lineup for Michigan. If you go back and look at the film you'll see several of those second chance points UCLA got were on Jake missing block outs, or just not being athletic enough to get the ball. We need Andrej's athleticism back in there to compete with the better teams, including Michigan's starting unit. (To be clear, Jake has been playing great and should get 18-20 minutes a game, just come off the bench).
-- Looking back at the film I see Kylan ball watching on defense many times, including the last play. He's a great on-ball defender but really needs to get more dialed in when he's off the ball, or switched on to someone else.
-- Who is our closer in the last two minutes? I love Keaton but he hasn't shown (at least yet) a proclivity to hit dagger shots at the end of a game. Missed great looks against MSU and UCLA. I don't see an Ayo or Trent -- a guy that absolutely wants the ball and will make the winning shot -- on this team. That's a problem.
-- I think we need to offload a bit more of the ball handling and initiator responsibility to Kylan to keep Keaton fresher in games. Maybe Keaton misses shots at the end of games because he's out of gas. I'd like to see us give Keaton 4-5 possessions more off the ball so he can rest, let Kylan or Mirk run stuff and Keaton be a spot up shooter only on those possessions.
-- Still have high hopes for this team, we can compete with anyone ... and will prove that on Friday night.
I'm pretty jaded from experiencing some of the most epic collapses in history from my other sports teams, so this really stings and reduces my optimism for this team.
But I was surprised to see how badly Florida got spanked in the first 12min of that game. They were down 39-13. I think a comeback that falls short doesn't feel as bad as an epic collapse (there's a silver lining that you figured out your opponent and massively outplayed them after that), but it's still surprising that a national champion could get outplayed that badly for 12 minutes.
Also, it doesn't look like the betting odds on us winning a championship have really changed, so that's perhaps an even better indicator that we shouldn't panic either.
Back to the last play. Does anyone else think Stojokovic should have forced Dent to the sideline when Dent passed the screener? That would have: 1) forced Dent into a longer route to the basket, which would've helped Stojokovic (and Bos and Wagler) keep up, 2) forced Dent to his off hand (or if he used his right hand, giving Z a good chance to affect the shot), 3) funneled Dent between himself (and possibly Bos/Wagler) and the sideline as they approached Z.
And a crazier thought about the end of regulation (not OT): did anyone else wonder if we should foul them? I think there were about 20s on the clock and we let them play it out. It appeared to work in our favor since they didn't score, though of course we still lost in overtime. But at the time I didn't like giving them a decent chance to win it on the last shot (plus the chance to beat us in overtime), and would have preferred having the ball down 1 or 2 than that. KenPom says don't foul in that scenario, but his analysis isn't for the best offense in history.
At least Wagler appeared to not get hurt. Win or lose, that would have been the worst outcome of this game.
Feels like moving picks---or late to getting set, legs extending outside shoulder width while defender goes by, and hand/arm extension during picks has become a lot more relaxed than it used to be.
You see one of those variants on darn near every PnR. So common that refs let it go not to impede pace of the game.
Feel bad for defenders nowadays trying to fight through as if modern ball handlers aren't hard enough to guard.
Don't think we played any zone last night. May have missed it, but maybe that could be deployed in stretches like the first half last night where we were getting taken to the hoop relentlessly and gave up something like 12/13 shots in that stretch. I know they're at the top of the league in 3 pt % so if they shoot you out of it kudos to them. But maybe it could have stopped a couple of easy buckets? It has been effective for us in spots this season.
We shall see. Brads not to good at getting out of the first weekend.
Thought I had moved on, but then decided to watch that last play in slow motion. It was kind of like watching the Zapruder film.
When Keaton gets back-picked and Dent heads down the left sideline, for some reason, Andrej fails to channel him to the outside, BAM fails to cut him off as he goes between both players.
Ben doesn’t react to cut him off and Z doesn’t really try to block the shot but just jumps straight up, allowing Dent to go around him and under his arms to get to the right side of the rim.
Four guys had the chance to intervene and change the course of history. None did. (And yes, I know I need to seek professional help.)
When Keaton gets back-picked and Dent heads down the left sideline, for some reason, Andrej fails to channel him to the outside, BAM fails to cut him off as he goes between both players.
Ben doesn’t react to cut him off and Z doesn’t really try to block the shot but just jumps straight up, allowing Dent to go around him and under his arms to get to the right side of the rim.
Four guys had the chance to intervene and change the course of history. None did. (And yes, I know I need to seek professional help.)
I was upset that Z didn't try to stop him, but he was likely gun shy from that horrible call we have replayed on this thread. Officials can ruin games sometimes, though we should never have let them back in the game with a 23 pt lead.
If Wagler’s legs are as dead as they look (and his outside shooting seems to bear that out), Illinois is in trouble.
WE. WERE. UP. 23. POINTS.
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