Big Ten Standings By Decade

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#26      
Fighter of the Nightman
Lastly, to finish off this thread, here is each team's average finish over these decades (since the 1939-1940 season):

1. Indiana ... 2.4
2. Illinois ... 3.3
3. Purdue ... 4.1
4. Michigan State ... 4.8
5. Ohio State ... 5.0
6. Iowa ... 5.3
7. Minnesota ... 6.0
8. Michigan ... 6.3
9. Wisconsin ... 7.4
10. Northwestern ... 9.7
11. Penn State ... 10.0

I'm hopin' that a return to the norm starts today or Monday.
 
#27      
VA Illini Chief
Wow, good stats. I was so used to the Illini finishing in the top of the standings I almost took it for granted. Never again. Just want to get back to that place and appreciate it like I should
 
#28      
Fighter of the Nightman
alaskaillini said:
You might consider dropping the 40s and 50s to be less misleading when calculating what is the norm. Sure we kicked everyone's a$$ when a two hand set shot was all the rage and there were no black players on the court, but I think going back more than 50 years kind of distorts what fans today should expect as the norm for this program. If you expect the next coach to average a top "3.3" program, you are going to be disappointed. Only 1 coach in the last 50 years has done better than averaging a 4.0 place finish and that was Bill Self who was only here for 3 years.
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I just went back that far because it was interesting. I think post-modern era (which I defined as 1980) is all that's relevant, and we've been a top 3 program before John Groce, which is my entire point: John Groce has underperformed what we should expect out of Illinois basketball by an almost unbelievable amount, and - even if you're going to lower your expectations now that we've been dragged down this far - our expectations going forward should be closer to 1980-2012 than 2013-2017. I don't see how you can disagree with that. You're going out of your way to rationalize why we won't be that good or shouldn't expect to be, and that's mind boggling coming from a fan. Zero upside to doing it.
 
#29      
champaignchris
?

Lou Henson had Illinois averaging right at 3rd place for 11 years before Bruce Pearl struck.

Then we had two years of sanctions.

Illinois's average place in the 14 years after the tourney sanctions ended - which includes teams coached by Henson, Kruger, Self and Weber - was 3.6.

Then Weber's recruiting caught up with us and we've not been good for the last decade.
 
#30      
Fighter of the Nightman
champaignchris said:
?

Lou Henson had Illinois averaging right at 3rd place for 11 years before Bruce Pearl struck.

Then we had two years of sanctions.

Illinois's average place in the 14 years after the tourney sanctions ended - which includes teams coached by Henson, Kruger, Self and Weber - was 3.6.

Then Weber's recruiting caught up with us and we've not been good for the last decade.
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Yep, it really amazes me how everyone with a set of eyeballs can't see that when Illinois wasn't facing SERIOUS impediments to our ability to compete with our conference peers, we were doing QUITE well - across several decades' worth of evidence. Why not celebrate this? Why not use it as hope that we can achieve this again.

Sorry, but it just makes Groce's (and late Weber's) tenure(s) look all the more pathetic.
 
#31      
zpfled
champaignchris said:
?

Lou Henson had Illinois averaging right at 3rd place for 11 years before Bruce Pearl struck.

Then we had two years of sanctions.

Illinois's average place in the 14 years after the tourney sanctions ended - which includes teams coached by Henson, Kruger, Self and Weber - was 3.6.

Then Weber's recruiting caught up with us and we've not been good for the last decade.
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It's amazing how many empty classes we've had. 2006, 2008, 2012...and 2010 was totally gone after 2 years.

I just want a coach who can stabilize our recruiting. Balance the classes a bit, balance the positions better, and that alone will help.
 
#33      
EfremWinters84
And I don't know why we would ever exclude a decade or two from the analysis. All-time means "all-time".
 
#35      
alaskaillini
Fighter of the Nightman said:
I just went back that far because it was interesting. I think post-modern era (which I defined as 1980) is all that's relevant, and we've been a top 3 program before John Groce, which is my entire point: John Groce has underperformed what we should expect out of Illinois basketball by an almost unbelievable amount, and - even if you're going to lower your expectations now that we've been dragged down this far - our expectations going forward should be closer to 1980-2012 than 2013-way to rationalize why we won't be that good or shouldn't expect to be, and that's mind boggling coming from a fan. Zero upside to doing it.
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No, I have been a fan since the 60s, so my expectations reflect having been through a true rebuilding of the program. I am not rationalizing that we should be happy at the middle of the pack in the B1G. But I think your use of statistics from 80 years ago to describe where Illinois should be in the scheme of things at present is erroneous. I think fan expectations that Illinois is so superior that it is easier to win here than Ohio State, Indiana, Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State, Maryland, Wisconsin, is unrealistic. Success is a spark in a bottle - it is a lot easier to maintain than to catch it again. Weber left our momentum in a downward spiral. That is not easy to change. Considering the rather enormous amount of bad luck Groce has had, I don't think you can say he has unbelievably underperformed - that is just wrong. He did not inherit a top 3 team. He inherited a dumpster fire. I think Groce has done his job, and I think the team is in a much better place today than it was when he took over. I know that is not saying much, but our underclassmen and recruits coming in are a very solid core of B1G capable talent that the next coach is going to have intact for two more years, and the momentum is on the way up. The new coach is going to have a much easier job than Groce did, but if he has some struggles and does not compete for the conference championship every year I will understand.
 
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#36      
whovous
While I agree that Groce will leave the program clearly better than he found it, there are still massive class imbalances left behind by BW that were left unaddressed by Groce.. Six rides in 2017 followed by just one in 2018? This is not a recipe for long term stability. Attrition may increase the number for 2018, but it may yet increase the number for 2017, too.
 
#37      
alaskaillini
whovous said:
While I agree that Groce will leave the program clearly better than he found it, there are still massive class imbalances left behind by BW that were left unaddressed by Groce.. Six rides in 2017 followed by just one in 2018? This is not a recipe for long term stability. Attrition may increase the number for 2018, but it may yet increase the number for 2017, too.
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Yes - but it will be far easier than having to fill 10 empty scholarships for Groce's year 2.
 
#38      
FiveStar
whovous said:
While I agree that Groce will leave the program clearly better than he found it, there are still massive class imbalances left behind by BW that were left unaddressed by Groce.. Six rides in 2017 followed by just one in 2018? This is not a recipe for long term stability. Attrition may increase the number for 2018, but it may yet increase the number for 2017, too.
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Man I fully agree. I feel like class balance is an issue that is pushed aside by so many. But if you don't have a core of at least 2-3 juniors ready to take over for the seniors, your looking at a program reset every other year.
 
#39      
zpfled
EfremWinters84 said:
I've posted this previously, but this ESPN/Sagarin ranking was published in 2009/2010. Illinois is #6 of all-time.....behind only the 5 bluebloods (KY, KS IND, UCLA and UNC). Historically speaking, Duke is not a blueblood.


http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2009/1004/cbe1.pdf


Bring on Bennett!
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I remember the thread on this document when it came out. It's a good example of statistics/rankings that, I imagine, nobody really cares about.

I mean, I certainly consider Duke to be the bluest of blue-bloods...and while we have a nice history, a strong tradition is only interesting to me if our program is currently sustaining it. It's like Bradley's tradition...sure it exists, but it's pretty dead now.

I'm certain no Duke fan feels inferior to Illinois in any possible way. And I'm certain that when we miss the tournament year after year, I find no comfort in our great tradition. But if we are winning, then our tradition is fun to talk about.
 
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