Chicago Cubs 2021 season

#678      
Most of the people going to the games probably don’t even know they sold off

It was hilarious how many people I know that were "shocked" at the trades. Not at what the Cubs got in return but rather that the players were trades at all.

I thought it had been pretty clear for the past month and a half but... 🤷‍♂️
 
#679      
Geneseo, IL
So with all the trades does that mean we get the double-shot power of Happ and Heyward every day now? :poop:
 
#680      
So with all the trades does that mean we get the double-shot power of Happ and Heyward every day now? :poop:

The Cubs should be doing whatever they can with Happ to get some value back with him. If he needs to play, play him. If he needs to sit, sit him. If he needs to get sent down, do that. He’s cheap. He’s under two more years of team control. He had a career .825 OPS before falling to pieces this season. Anything they can do to get him some positive momentum going into next year would be great.

Heyward should be riding the pine or released. He should be giving up PT to guys who actually might have a future with the team.
 
#681      
The Cubs should be doing whatever they can with Happ to get some value back with him. If he needs to play, play him. If he needs to sit, sit him. If he needs to get sent down, do that. He’s cheap. He’s under two more years of team control. He had a career .825 OPS before falling to pieces this season. Anything they can do to get him some positive momentum going into next year would be great.

Heyward should be riding the pine or released. He should be giving up PT to guys who actually might have a future with the team.
Like who? This is part of the conundrum. The minors are so bereft of talent that there is no one knocking on the door at the AAA level. That's why journeymen like Wisdom, Ortega, and Alcantara are getting their shot. Davis might be ready next year, but he doesn't even have 50 games at AA under his belt.
 
#682      
That's a really good question. I would tend to think no. Or maybe they make a trade for a "lesser" closer (not sure who that would have been back in 2016) to help them get over the edge and perhaps they'd still have a minor league piece or two that they gave up.

Good thought experiment, though.
I could see it either way. They were favorites to win it all and you gotta capita just on those seasons whenever they happen.
 
#683      
Like who? This is part of the conundrum. The minors are so bereft of talent that there is no one knocking on the door at the AAA level. That's why journeymen like Wisdom, Ortega, and Alcantara are getting their shot. Davis might be ready next year, but he doesn't even have 50 games at AA under his belt.

The minors are not bereft of talent. That was the whole point of the trading exercise the Cubs just went through. Fangraphs had the Cubs’ system jump from #18 overall prior to the Pederson trade to #9 overall. Other services haven’t updated as quickly.

Specifically to the outfield, Deichmann - who just came over in the Chafin trade - and Hermosillo - .313/.436/.575 in 165 plate appearances at Iowa this year - should both be seeing some Big League at bats. Both 26 years old. No real reason to keep them at AAA.

Justin Steele and Keegan Thompson should both be back up to start some games soon. Brailyn Marques shouldn’t be too far behind.

Manuel Rodrigues is already in the pen. As is Kyle Ryan, who they’re trying to bring back from the dead. Hopefully Dillon Maples, Rowan Wick and Tommy Nance will all be back soon, and hopefully Ben Leeper will be making his Big League debut soon.
 
#684      
I'm kinda waiting to see Nate Hobbs trotting out to right one day soon and swinging the WonderBoy bat when he comes up
 
#685      
Like who? This is part of the conundrum. The minors are so bereft of talent that there is no one knocking on the door at the AAA level. That's why journeymen like Wisdom, Ortega, and Alcantara are getting their shot. Davis might be ready next year, but he doesn't even have 50 games at AA under his belt.
Journeymen are getting a shot because they are bridging the gap instead of rushing guys through.

To your point, I see no reason to bench Heyward. He’s on the team and will be next year unless he has a magical end of the year and we can salary dump him.

I’d rather we not salary dump him if he doesn’t perform better because usually that entails a net loss in prospects.

Say all you want about Heyward’s performance, he is a leader in the clubhouse and the Cubs have a shortage in that department.

The Cubs farm system has a LOT of talent. They don’t have the high-end flashy names, but they have an extremely DEEP farm system. If you ask me, that’s a great approach to rebuilding. More than likely a few or more of the deep farm prospects will become major contributors. Maybe we could even lock up a Keegan Thompson or chase strumpf to a very team friendly deal before they break out. It’s a risk, but may be easier than trying to give a name everyone knows a deal early on - as the chances are lower that nobody in the Cubs top 30 today ends of contributing, than that any 1 individual player is a bust. Play the numbers.
 
#686      
Journeymen are getting a shot because they are bridging the gap instead of rushing guys through.

To your point, I see no reason to bench Heyward. He’s on the team and will be next year unless he has a magical end of the year and we can salary dump him.

I’d rather we not salary dump him if he doesn’t perform better because usually that entails a net loss in prospects.

Say all you want about Heyward’s performance, he is a leader in the clubhouse and the Cubs have a shortage in that department.

The Cubs farm system has a LOT of talent. They don’t have the high-end flashy names, but they have an extremely DEEP farm system. If you ask me, that’s a great approach to rebuilding. More than likely a few or more of the deep farm prospects will become major contributors. Maybe we could even lock up a Keegan Thompson or chase strumpf to a very team friendly deal before they break out. It’s a risk, but may be easier than trying to give a name everyone knows a deal early on - as the chances are lower that nobody in the Cubs top 30 today ends of contributing, than that any 1 individual player is a bust. Play the numbers.
Next TWO years. The only way they can salary dump him is if they package him with someone we have who is very good or if they assume the salary of someone else who has a crappy contract and sucks.
 
#687      
Next TWO years. The only way they can salary dump him is if they package him with someone we have who is very good or if they assume the salary of someone else who has a crappy contract and sucks.
Unless, as I mentioned, his offense comes back for the remainder of the season. Still don’t see it as likely, but a torrid august and September MIGHT be the only thing that could get any value from him.

If he is released, does he still count against the cap? I’m not that familiar with how that works
 
#688      
Unless, as I mentioned, his offense comes back for the remainder of the season. Still don’t see it as likely, but a torrid august and September MIGHT be the only thing that could get any value from him.

If he is released, does he still count against the cap? I’m not that familiar with how that works

The Cubs are projected to be $110 million below the luxury tax next year. There is no way for them to spend enough such that Heyward’s salary has any bearing on the luxury tax one way or the other. However, if released, he will not count against the tax threshold. If released mid-season, his salary would count against the tax on a pro-rated basis.

They are not going to trade away a good chunk of the talent they just picked up just to get rid of Heyward’s salary, and it’s hard to imagine any trade scenario in which the Cubs don’t have to pick up a portion of Heyward’s salary. And keep in mind Heyward can nix any trade because he has 5 and 10 rights.

It will most likely be preferable to both the Cubs and Heyward to simply release him. The Cubs don’t give up any talent and Heyward gets to sign wherever he wants.
 
#689      
The Cubs are projected to be $110 million below the luxury tax next year. There is no way for them to spend enough such that Heyward’s salary has any bearing on the luxury tax one way or the other. However, if released, he will not count against the tax threshold. If released mid-season, his salary would count against the tax on a pro-rated basis.

They are not going to trade away a good chunk of the talent they just picked up just to get rid of Heyward’s salary, and it’s hard to imagine any trade scenario in which the Cubs don’t have to pick up a portion of Heyward’s salary. And keep in mind Heyward can nix any trade because he has 5 and 10 rights.

It will most likely be preferable to both the Cubs and Heyward to simply release him. The Cubs don’t give up any talent and Heyward gets to sign wherever he wants.
So are you of the opinion that Heyward provides absolutely no value in terms of leadership/mentorship?
 
#691      
I suggested that he could provide that mentorship about four pages ago. It all comes down to if he’s willing and the Cubs can’t find something more valuable for that roster spot.
To be fair - I don’t think we have an every day RFer knocking on the door of the majors for every day at bats. Seems like it would be better to pay him for leadership than pay him to play elsewhere
 
#692      
Jason Hayward being our everyday right fielder and hitting .210 in the process is certainly a problem , but far from being in the top 5 problems facing the team
 
#695      
Who is he leading/mentoring? Most of these guys are in their late twenties or into their thirties. His WS rain delay speech has been milked for too long.
I simply asked your opinion…

I’m not referring to any singular speech. He is a veteran on a roster that will be very young in the second half. The word from inside the clubhouse has always been that he is a great leader in the clubhouse, with or without the speech.
 
#696      
Geneseo, IL
I simply asked your opinion…

I’m not referring to any singular speech. He is a veteran on a roster that will be very young in the second half. The word from inside the clubhouse has always been that he is a great leader in the clubhouse, with or without the speech.
I wasn't trying to be snippy, just making an observation. Considering how this team has performed the last few years, how great was the "leadership" anyway? They have to figure out something nice to say about him. They're not going to say "yeah, he stinks."
 
#697      
I wasn't trying to be snippy, just making an observation. Considering how this team has performed the last few years, how great was the "leadership" anyway? They have to figure out something nice to say about him. They're not going to say "yeah, he stinks."
So who should they play instead?
 
#698      
$23 mil a year is a lot to pay for leadership. .200 BA with minimal power is unacceptable for a corner outfielder. I don't care how you slice it. His signing ended up being a disaster and will continue to be for another 2 1/2 years.
We won't be competitive until he's gone anyway, eat the salary the next two years and move on. Packaging him in a deal at the deadline would have been a gigantic mistake that I'm glad we didn't make. Let's hope some of these surprises we've had this year, namely Wisdom and Ortega, can continue to play well and be a piece in the future, or traded for pieces next year.
 
#699      
Geneseo, IL
So who should they play instead?
It doesn't matter this season. If they have a young player they want to look at in right, play him. If not, trot Heyward out there for the last fifty games. He won't be on the team the next time they are competing for anything.