IHSA Talk

#26      

TwoElevenEastDaniel

TwoElevenEastDaniel
Cochrane's-Orchid-Tonic
TwoElevenEastDaniel
ILikeCoffeeMugs said:
As someone who attended a Chicago Catholic League school that has a history of athletic rivalry with others in the conference, I'll say this: no zip code rules = wider map (to recruit). Besides the usual local kids, my school had kids from NW Indiana, kids from practically every zip code from the inner and outer ring suburbs, to Catholic kids from Pilsen and Bridgeport, plus non-Catholics from not-so-great Chicago neighborhoods looking for an alternative to their local CPS.

The admins' rivals weren't so much the local public school, it was producing a product that was more attractive than the other Catholic high school 20 minutes away who was also bragging that X number kids came from X number of zip codes.

Currently, one of the prime focuses is to succeed athletically where the school president has hired athletic coaches who could delivery the goods. So far it's working. In the past the high school was good at one or two sports in any given season, but now not only is the basketball team winning, but also the football, baseball, soccer and volleyball team both at conference play and at the state level. Unfortunately our cheerleading squad, the gem of the school in past years, has fallen to absolute mediocrity. It'll be a while before they see another national banner.

I would guess Yorkshire Christian is far more selective on who they recruit, whether for sports or academics, to fill out their enrollment in comparison to X or Y public school who can only work with the kids within their district boundaries.
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Yes, this.

I grew up on the South Side close to Leo, St. Rita, and Mount Carmel. But I went to a different Catholic HS and had classmates from the North Shore down to the south Burbs and even Michigan City. We had kids who were stars on various sports teams who could have gone to Lyons Township, Niles North/West, Homewood-Flossmoor, New Trier, or any other gigantic public school.

Yorkville probably does the same calculus. Also, Yorkville beat my alma mater last week. So it's working.
 
#29      

ILikeCoffeeMugs

ILikeCoffeeMugs
ILikeCoffeeMugs
TwoElevenEastDaniel said:
Yes, this.

I grew up on the South Side close to Leo, St. Rita, and Mount Carmel. But I went to a different Catholic HS and had classmates from the North Shore down to the south Burbs and even Michigan City. We had kids who were stars on various sports teams who could have gone to Lyons Township, Niles North/West, Homewood-Flossmoor, New Trier, or any other gigantic public school.

Yorkville probably does the same calculus. Also, Yorkville beat my alma mater last week. So it's working.
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I also remember a kid a year ahead of me who came from somewhere near the Wisconsin-Illinois border. I believe it was on recommendation by either one of his family friends or extended family member to attend the high school. During the school year, he'd stay at his uncle's who lived around the area and then on select weekends if he didn't have any sports or plans he'd head up to the border to visit his parents. It so happens he was also a decent hockey player. At least anecdotally I think this is where reputation and alumni contacts play a big role. I remember during high school when I was wearing my letterman jacket out in public, one time at a movie theater and another at a grocery store, a couple of people pointed it out, looked seriously at the varsity letter and said something to the effect it was a good school. At that time I wasn't fully aware of its impact beyond school premises and its local community outside of sports.
 
#35      

At the top of illinois

A
At the top of illinois
I find it interesting not one person has commented on the number one ranked team from the tiny village of just 374. In fact the county is just 22,000 people respectfully. Now these kids are not going to continue on playing in college. There is was no college rep knocking on their doors before this season. They play every sport the school has to offer just so their friends can have a team. They have achieved their success not from recruiting but from the values of hard work and determination the community prides themselves in. Their teammates truly are their best friends and family and they play for each other giving them their whole heart It really does take a village folks. Don’t be surprised to see the Scales Mound Hornets take on Yorkville in the Title match as they have set their sights on them and they have a whole village with small town pride and a lot of heart backing them the whole way.
 
#36      

mattcoldagelli

mattcoldagelli
The Transfer Portal
mattcoldagelli
At the top of illinois said:
I find it interesting not one person has commented on the number one ranked team from the tiny village of just 374. In fact the county is just 22,000 people respectfully. Now these kids are not going to continue on playing in college. There is was no college rep knocking on their doors before this season. They play every sport the school has to offer just so their friends can have a team. They have achieved their success not from recruiting but from the values of hard work and determination the community prides themselves in. Their teammates truly are their best friends and family and they play for each other giving them their whole heart It really does take a village folks. Don’t be surprised to see the Scales Mound Hornets take on Yorkville in the Title match as they have set their sights on them and they have a whole village with small town pride and a lot of heart backing them the whole way.
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Jo Daviess County represent!
 
#37      

IlliniBrave75

IlliniBrave75
IlliniBrave75
At the top of illinois said:
I find it interesting not one person has commented on the number one ranked team from the tiny village of just 374. In fact the county is just 22,000 people respectfully. Now these kids are not going to continue on playing in college. There is was no college rep knocking on their doors before this season. They play every sport the school has to offer just so their friends can have a team. They have achieved their success not from recruiting but from the values of hard work and determination the community prides themselves in. Their teammates truly are their best friends and family and they play for each other giving them their whole heart It really does take a village folks. Don’t be surprised to see the Scales Mound Hornets take on Yorkville in the Title match as they have set their sights on them and they have a whole village with small town pride and a lot of heart backing them the whole way.
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I would love to be wrong, but I just don't see a small town school being able to upset Yorkville Christian.

Looks like Scales Mound and Yorkville had one common opponent...South Beloit

Scales Mound 47 - South Beloit 37
Yorkville Christian - 83 - South Beloit 61

I don't know if anyone was out for either game or just coming back from injury/illness. Looking at the scores, it is very possible that each team like to play a different pace.
 
#38      

Bleedorangeandblue44

B
Bleedorangeandblue44
At the top of illinois said:
I find it interesting not one person has commented on the number one ranked team from the tiny village of just 374. In fact the county is just 22,000 people respectfully. Now these kids are not going to continue on playing in college. There is was no college rep knocking on their doors before this season. They play every sport the school has to offer just so their friends can have a team. They have achieved their success not from recruiting but from the values of hard work and determination the community prides themselves in. Their teammates truly are their best friends and family and they play for each other giving them their whole heart It really does take a village folks. Don’t be surprised to see the Scales Mound Hornets take on Yorkville in the Title match as they have set their sights on them and they have a whole village with small town pride and a lot of heart backing them the whole way.
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Obviously Yorkville Christian has an unfair advantage (but that's nothing new....just look at all the IHSA football champions, and many, many other sports) I'd love the story line of them getting upset by your school or a similiar small 1A town, but I would never say their kids haven't worked hard, or that the values of hard work are something YC doesn't also strive for. Those Yorkville christian kids also have worked really hard to get to this point, they haven't just beat up on smaller schools; much to the contrary, they have played almost all 3A and 4A schools and the best of the best. My son's team played and beat YC earlier this season and it was a great win for them and other than typical little trash talking he said the YC kids were great and it was really fun to compete against them. Good luck to the Hornets and hope you get to knock off Jaden Schutt and company. Going to be an interesting state tournament this year back in Champaign and with all four classes the same weekend this year instead of 1A and 2A one weekend, then 3A and 4A the next.
 
#39      

IlliniFaninHoosierLand

IlliniFaninHoosierLand
IlliniFaninHoosierLand
Yorkville Christian won't face a state ranked team until the state semifinal. The SIU Supersectional will be a matchup between either state ranked Tuscola and Macon Meridian (who play each other at Effingham St. Anthony for sectional title Friday night) and potentially Steeleville. Scales Mound could potentially be in the same boat. They still have state ranked Peoria Christian and Liberty in their half of bracket and those two schools could face each other at the Jacksonville Bowl Supersectional before potentially facing Scales Mound in the state semifinal.
 
#40      

At the top of illinois

A
At the top of illinois
Don’t dismiss SM Hornets so quickly as they have held their own against Chicago Leo losing only by 5 if I’m not mistaken and let me know if I’m wrong but Leo is 17th overall with Yorkville coming in at #66? Also played 4A #14 in state Dubuque Senior in Iowa losing by 4 with two starters out. Only two games lost so far. Both SM and Yorkville have played SOBO both winning by ten. Played East Dubuque and won four times. As far as I can see the only thing going on with Yorkville is their height (which SM doesn’t fall short on). As for Jaden schutt 25PPG, seems he is the only one on the team shooting. And I’m sure they worked hard, but I know for fact that farm kids work harder than private school ones. Yorkville lost a conference game as well? They sure seem overrated.
 
#41      

IlliniBrave75

IlliniBrave75
IlliniBrave75
IlliniFaninHoosierLand said:
Yorkville Christian won't face a state ranked team until the state semifinal. The SIU Supersectional will be a matchup between either state ranked Tuscola and Macon Meridian (who play each other at Effingham St. Anthony for sectional title Friday night) and potentially Steeleville. Scales Mound could potentially be in the same boat. They still have state ranked Peoria Christian and Liberty in their half of bracket and those two schools could face each other at the Jacksonville Bowl Supersectional before potentially facing Scales Mound in the state semifinal.
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Although Yorkville won't face a state ranked team until the state semifinal, there next opponent Granville (Putnam County) is playing well. Putnam County beat Midland (just outside top 10 in latest AP Poll) in the regional final by 15 and beat Chicago Fenger (others receiving votes in latest AP Poll) in the first game of sectional by 10.

All that being said, I expect this to be at least a 20pt win for Yorkville Christian.
 
#42      

IlliniBrave75

IlliniBrave75
IlliniBrave75
At the top of illinois said:
Don’t dismiss SM Hornets so quickly as they have held their own against Chicago Leo losing only by 5 if I’m not mistaken and let me know if I’m wrong but Leo is 17th overall with Yorkville coming in at #66? Also played 4A #14 in state Dubuque Senior in Iowa losing by 4 with two starters out. Only two games lost so far. Both SM and Yorkville have played SOBO both winning by ten. Played East Dubuque and won four times. As far as I can see the only thing going on with Yorkville is their height (which SM doesn’t fall short on). As for Jaden schutt 25PPG, seems he is the only one on the team shooting. And I’m sure they worked hard, but I know for fact that farm kids work harder than private school ones. Yorkville lost a conference game as well? They sure seem overrated.
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I am not at all doubting Scales Mound, and I hope they (or any other actual small school) beats Yorkville Christian. I don't think they should be in class 1A.

Using those same rankings, here is how Yorkville played against the top 25 teams in the state of Illinois (per Max Preps)
Yorkville Christian 68 - 93 Glenbard West #1 overall (4A)
Yorkville Christian 77 - 61 Hyde Park #24 overall (3A)
Yorkville Christian 87 - 91 Oswego East #6 overall (4A)
Yorkville Christian 58 - 63 Glenbrook South #2 overall (4A)
Yorkville Christian 55 - 71 New Trier #5 overall (4A)
Yorkville Christian 75 - 68 Kenwood #12 overall (4A)
 
#43      

KBLEE

KBLEE
Montgomery, IL
KBLEE
IlliniBrave75 said:
I am not at all doubting Scales Mound, and I hope they (or any other actual small school) beats Yorkville Christian. I don't think they should be in class 1A.
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If you really want them out of 1A, you should actually want them to win:

1646326287156.png


My wife teaches at a private school who had success in soccer a few years back. They took 3rd place one year and won the title the next. They were bumped up a class after the title year.
 
#44      

IlliniBrave75

IlliniBrave75
IlliniBrave75
KBLEE said:
If you really want them out of 1A, you should actually want them to win:

View attachment 15910

My wife teaches at a private school who had success in soccer a few years back. They took 3rd place one year and won the title the next. They were bumped up a class after the title year.
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I understand what you are saying, but if they win, they are taking hardware that I would rather see go to a public school like Scales Mound that has had a phenomenal season.

Due to Covid-19 there was not a state tournament either of the last two years. Therefore I would have to hope they win trophies this year and next year. That could possibly take the chance of a lifetime away from a small public school for the entirety of their high school playing career!

I can't get on board with that!
 
#45      

redwingillini11

redwingillini11
White and Sixth
North Aurora
redwingillini11
Yeah, its not like Yorkville Christian is this basketball academy that has been exploiting the system for years. They lucked into having a top national talent fall in to their lap, and they have so far only won two regionals and one sectional in their history thanks to Schutt. Now if this extremely moderate success turns into great players going to Yorkville Christian year after year and they are regularly going to State, then the system will correct itself and they will get bumped up.

But anyone complaining that the school shouldn't be in 1A are asking the IHSA to pretty much look at recruiting rankings every year and predict how good each private school is going to be, OR classify each team at the end of the year based on how good they were that season. It just doesn't make sense.

The IHSA system is fine. If Yorkville Christian wins State, I'm sure they will get bumped up in the future.
 
#46      

AnnoyedWithGarza

A
AnnoyedWithGarza
redwingillini11 said:
Yeah, its not like Yorkville Christian is this basketball academy that has been exploiting the system for years. They lucked into having a top national talent fall in to their lap, and they have so far only won two regionals and one sectional in their history thanks to Schutt. Now if this extremely moderate success turns into great players going to Yorkville Christian year after year and they are regularly going to State, then the system will correct itself and they will get bumped up.

But anyone complaining that the school shouldn't be in 1A are asking the IHSA to pretty much look at recruiting rankings every year and predict how good each private school is going to be, OR classify each team at the end of the year based on how good they were that season. It just doesn't make sense.

The IHSA system is fine. If Yorkville Christian wins State, I'm sure they will get bumped up in the future.
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Why not let the private schools play the private schools? Then the champions can play each other.
 
#47      

IlliniBrave75

IlliniBrave75
IlliniBrave75
redwingillini11 said:
Yeah, its not like Yorkville Christian is this basketball academy that has been exploiting the system for years. They lucked into having a top national talent fall in to their lap, and they have so far only won two regionals and one sectional in their history thanks to Schutt. Now if this extremely moderate success turns into great players going to Yorkville Christian year after year and they are regularly going to State, then the system will correct itself and they will get bumped up.

But anyone complaining that the school shouldn't be in 1A are asking the IHSA to pretty much look at recruiting rankings every year and predict how good each private school is going to be, OR classify each team at the end of the year based on how good they were that season. It just doesn't make sense.

The IHSA system is fine. If Yorkville Christian wins State, I'm sure they will get bumped up in the future.
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Just a few things. Many seems to think that Yorkville Christian lucked into Jaden Schutt. Go look at the staff page of the school....

Dr. Jeff Schutt - Director of Athletic Development
CJ Schutt - Athletic Performance Instruction

Yeah that sure looks like luck to me!


It is not about predicting how good a private school is, and it is not about the enrollment of the school. It is about the ability to recruit for private schools vs the strict boundaries of a public school (especially small schools). I understand in bigger cities (Chicago) that kids may be able to go to more than one high school based on where they live or maybe based on courses that are offered that the school closest to them does not. In rural school districts, the next school may be 30 to 40 miles away. You don't have a choice unless your family moves. I don't understand how this is so hard for some people to realize. Maybe I should put it in a context that most on this board would understand...

How well do you think that Illinois would be able to compete with the rest of the B1G if Illinois was not allowed to give scholarships and recruit?
 
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#48      

redwingillini11

redwingillini11
White and Sixth
North Aurora
redwingillini11
IlliniBrave75 said:
I understand what you are saying, but if they win, they are taking hardware that I would rather see go to a public school like Scales Mound that has had a phenomenal season.

Due to Covid-19 there was not a state tournament either of the last two years. Therefore I would have to hope they win trophies this year and next year. That could possibly take the chance of a lifetime away from a small public school for the entirety of their high school playing career!

I can't get on board with that!
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I mean... That's your bias man. And you should feel free to have a pro-public school anti-private school opinion. But you're pretty much asking all private schools to be bumped up to play schools much larger than them so that all these tiny public schools that you like can have their "chance of a lifetime."

Say you have this Yorkville Christian team without Schutt. They are just a plucky hard working team from a tiny school almost out in the country, going up against, say, my dad's alma mater Lisle High School in the 2A playoffs. Not a huge public school, but still around 5 times as big and from the "affluent" suburbs. Why should small country schools have to compete against schools in the suburbs who have a clear advantage over them?

Every now and then a small school gets a great talent. Like Anthony Davis at Perspectives Charter. Its not very common, but it happens. Then water finds its level and we all move on. The IHSA system will work fine in the long run. I'm sorry your favored small public school won't win a title this year. A lot of other teams won't win a title either...
 
#49      

Emerson Bigguns

Emerson Bigguns
Emerson Bigguns
IlliniBrave75 said:
I understand what you are saying, but if they win, they are taking hardware that I would rather see go to a public school like Scales Mound that has had a phenomenal season.

Due to Covid-19 there was not a state tournament either of the last two years. Therefore I would have to hope they win trophies this year and next year. That could possibly take the chance of a lifetime away from a small public school for the entirety of their high school playing career!

I can't get on board with that!
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They are playing the games, right? The "chance of a lifetime" is right in front of them.
 
#50      

IlliniBrave75

IlliniBrave75
IlliniBrave75
redwingillini11 said:
I mean... That's your bias man. And you should feel free to have a pro-public school anti-private school opinion. But you're pretty much asking all private schools to be bumped up to play schools much larger than them so that all these tiny public schools that you like can have their "chance of a lifetime."

Say you have this Yorkville Christian team without Schutt. They are just a plucky hard working team from a tiny school almost out in the country, going up against, say, my dad's alma mater Lisle High School in the 2A playoffs. Not a huge public school, but still around 5 times as big and from the "affluent" suburbs. Why should small country schools have to compete against schools in the suburbs who have a clear advantage over them?

Every now and then a small school gets a great talent. Like Anthony Davis at Perspectives Charter. Its not very common, but it happens. Then water finds its level and we all move on. The IHSA system will work fine in the long run. I'm sorry your favored small public school won't win a title this year. A lot of other teams won't win a title either...
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If you go back and look at post #5 of this thread by IllinoisssssVarsity, this is something that makes more sense to me. IHSA for Public schools and a different association for Private schools (this could have multiple tiers based on enrollment as well). Unfortunately, enrollment is not a level playing field for public schools when they have boundaries that determine their enrollment. Private schools have no boundaries. Some private schools have scholarships and they can all recruit kids. This is where I have the issue.