Let's talk about Bruce Weber

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#1      
Hoping we can leverage this year's success (and hopefully a long NCAA tourney run) over the course of the next recruiting year. I recall waiting and waiting in 2005-06 and Weber never could deliver a big class.

As of right now, we're essentially "missing in action" when it comes to the Top 100 for next fall's class (Goode). Will be indeed watching April/May/June closely.
 
#2      
Hoping we can leverage this year's success (and hopefully a long NCAA tourney run) over the course of the next recruiting year. I recall waiting and waiting in 2005-06 and Weber never could deliver a big class.

As of right now, we're essentially "missing in action" when it comes to the Top 100 for next fall's class (Goode). Will be indeed watching April/May/June closely.
There's a world of difference between the recruiting ability of our current staff and Weber's staff.
 
#3      
There's a world of difference between the recruiting ability of our current staff and Weber's staff.
weber brought in a great group of kids. unfortunately, he brought in a lot of them that could not play in his system. ex: tisdale would have benefited from a zone defense but weber wouldnt play that way. however, i will be first to admit weber did a better job with the kids he inherited.......
 
#4      
weber brought in a great group of kids. unfortunately, he brought in a lot of them that could not play in his system. ex: tisdale would have benefited from a zone defense but weber wouldnt play that way. however, i will be first to admit weber did a better job with the kids he inherited.......
Wut? Great kids? I guess. Great basketball players? Nope.
 
#5      
weber brought in a great group of kids. unfortunately, he brought in a lot of them that could not play in his system. ex: tisdale would have benefited from a zone defense but weber wouldnt play that way. however, i will be first to admit weber did a better job with the kids he inherited.......

Weber inherited a roster literally full of NBA talent. Underwood inherited... a lot less than that.
 
#6      
Wut? Great kids? I guess. Great basketball players? Nope.
Meyers Leonard 5
crandal head
D J Richardson
Brandon Paul
Joe Bertrand 3
Tyler Griffey 3
Myke Henry 4
Tracy Abrams
Mike Shaw
Trent Meachum
Chester Frazier
Mike Davis
Demitri McCamey
Mike Tisdale
 
#7      
Meyers Leonard 5
crandal head
D J Richardson
Brandon Paul
Joe Bertrand 3
Tyler Griffey 3
Myke Henry 4
Tracy Abrams
Mike Shaw
Trent Meachum
Chester Frazier
Mike Davis
Demitri McCamey
Mike Tisdale
Thanks for the list, I had no idea! Let's just say we have different ideas about what constitutes a great player.
 
#9      
Very good:
Leonard (but mostly after he left ILL)
Brandon Paul
Demitri McCamey

The rest were pretty nice role players.


Great:
Ayo
Kofi
Curbelo

I think you are really underselling Leonard here.

Also, Weber did a. Okay job of landing players who were fairly highly rated as prospects. The question for me is why so many of them didn't live up to their billing. Poor fit? Poor coaching and player development? I don't know, but it's what killed our program. Eventually the good prospects saw that and we became a program where players' reputations died.
 
#10      
weber brought in a great group of kids. unfortunately, he brought in a lot of them that could not play in his system. ex: tisdale would have benefited from a zone defense but weber wouldnt play that way. however, i will be first to admit weber did a better job with the kids he inherited.......
username checks out
 
#11      
I think you are really underselling Leonard here.

Also, Weber did a. Okay job of landing players who were fairly highly rated as prospects. The question for me is why so many of them didn't live up to their billing. Poor fit? Poor coaching and player development? I don't know, but it's what killed our program. Eventually the good prospects saw that and we became a program where players' reputations died.
PG play has been consistently bad when we've struggled.

Groce couldn't land a PG to save his life, Weber was killed by Frazier and Abrams.

Underwood has had Ayo, Feliz, and Curbelo.

There is a strong correlation between PG play and wins.
 
#12      
I think you are really underselling Leonard here.

Also, Weber did a. Okay job of landing players who were fairly highly rated as prospects. The question for me is why so many of them didn't live up to their billing. Poor fit? Poor coaching and player development? I don't know, but it's what killed our program. Eventually the good prospects saw that and we became a program where players' reputations died.
Agree. Also many will disagree with me but I give him all the credit for the Hill commitment. Also don’t forget Pruitt was a big get. Same non-development story.
 
#13      
Agree. Also many will disagree with me but I give him all the credit for the Hill commitment. Also don’t forget Pruitt was a big get. Same non-development story.

That staff's track record with big men was especially poor.
 
#14      
I think Weber had a couple of issues.

First, I don’t think he ever learned how to handle future NBA players. I remember he had a real problem with people getting in Demitri’s year after he was first team all BIG. Well, what good player doesn’t draw attention and interest from the nba? And I believe there was always a rumor that when D. Rose visited Weber gave him a hard time about whether he would start as a freshman. And D Rose and his brother just laughed.

Second, I think he heard the (valid) criticism that he wasn’t recruiting commensurate with our success, so he brought in Jerrance to recruit with the big boys. Jerrance brought in a much higher quality of player, but Jerrance was willing to stoke egos and tell kids what they wanted to hear. I think this led to a lack of consistent messaging from the staff and a lot of good cop (Jerrance)/bad cop (Weber) and, ultimately, a lack of buy in from the players.

And finally, agree there was a lack of development. Not sure of the underlying reason but could be related to lack of buy in.

Weber needed to and needs to build a scrappy team of Meechums/Fraziers to win with his system and I don’t think it’s a coincidence he had his most success with his players (vs Selfs) with that group. But the fan base (rightfully) demanded a higher level of player and winning.
 
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#15      
I think you are really underselling Leonard here.

Also, Weber did a. Okay job of landing players who were fairly highly rated as prospects. The question for me is why so many of them didn't live up to their billing. Poor fit? Poor coaching and player development? I don't know, but it's what killed our program. Eventually the good prospects saw that and we became a program where players' reputations died.
this
 
#17      
Good points made all around. Just wanted to add, Bruce has the personality of a pet rock. Antigua and Chin are truly dynamic humans with really interesting backgrounds. This has highly contributed to our recent recruiting success.
 
#19      
I think you are really underselling Leonard here.

Also, Weber did a. Okay job of landing players who were fairly highly rated as prospects. The question for me is why so many of them didn't live up to their billing. Poor fit? Poor coaching and player development? I don't know, but it's what killed our program. Eventually the good prospects saw that and we became a program where players' reputations died.
We need to be grateful that we have an athletic director that isn't complete and total garbage. I have nothing against Bruce Weber, he tried he wasn't up to the task, a good athletic director would have seen this and hired someone capable.
 
#20      
We need to be grateful that we have an athletic director that isn't complete and total garbage. I have nothing against Bruce Weber, he tried he wasn't up to the task, a good athletic director would have seen this and hired someone capable.
Bruce Weber was national coach of the year, and has been the conference coach of the year in every conference he's coached in. He should have had a national title, took a mid major to the sweet 16, and took ksu to the elite 8. He's won the conference at least once at every stop.

He's a great coach. What he struggles at is recruiting. That struggle has led to uneven success.
 
#21      
Bruce Weber was national coach of the year, and has been the conference coach of the year in every conference he's coached in. He should have had a national title, took a mid major to the sweet 16, and took ksu to the elite 8. He's won the conference at least once at every stop.

He's a great coach. What he struggles at is recruiting. That struggle has led to uneven success.
picking bill cole over robbie hummel coaching over a decade at purdue and not being to get one single player from Indiana (couldn't have made one friend willing to send you even a mediocre player much less a good player) offering big ten scholarships to players that couldn't so much as dribble talking at length about not being able to recruit particular players to the university of illinois (one of the finest universities in the world) if you don't believe in what your selling how on earth can you suceed absolute and total !!!!!! garbage!!!
 
#22      
picking bill cole over robbie hummel coaching over a decade at purdue and not being to get one single player from Indiana (couldn't have made one friend willing to send you even a mediocre player much less a good player) offering big ten scholarships to players that couldn't so much as dribble talking at length about not being able to recruit particular players to the university of illinois (one of the finest universities in the world) if you don't believe in what your selling how on earth can you suceed absolute and total !!!!!! garbage!!!

Jereme Richmond could have been Ayo Dosunmu in an alternate universe. And Leonard could have been Kofi.
 
#23      
picking bill cole over robbie hummel coaching over a decade at purdue and not being to get one single player from Indiana (couldn't have made one friend willing to send you even a mediocre player much less a good player) offering big ten scholarships to players that couldn't so much as dribble talking at length about not being able to recruit particular players to the university of illinois (one of the finest universities in the world) if you don't believe in what your selling how on earth can you suceed absolute and total !!!!!! garbage!!!
Soooo...not a Weber fan?
matthew broderick jewish GIF
 
#24      
picking bill cole over robbie hummel coaching over a decade at purdue and not being to get one single player from Indiana (couldn't have made one friend willing to send you even a mediocre player much less a good player) offering big ten scholarships to players that couldn't so much as dribble talking at length about not being able to recruit particular players to the university of illinois (one of the finest universities in the world) if you don't believe in what your selling how on earth can you suceed absolute and total !!!!!! garbage!!!

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#25      
Bruce Weber was national coach of the year, and has been the conference coach of the year in every conference he's coached in. He should have had a national title, took a mid major to the sweet 16, and took ksu to the elite 8. He's won the conference at least once at every stop.

He's a great coach. What he struggles at is recruiting. That struggle has led to uneven success.

I think Bruce Weber is a great game day coach. If you hand him a roster full of good players who are reasonably coachable, he can get one refjob away form a national championship with them. I think he is a poor developer of talent and a mediocre recruiter, so he struggles to build that kind of roster for himself in a P5 conference. Sometimes he winds up with a good mix and sometimes not. The end result is uneven results on the floor from year to year and an overall mediocre record at P5 schools (0.578 in the B1G, 0.466 in the Big 12).

The fact that he is still employed by Kansas State, frankly, blows my mind.
 
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