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<blockquote data-quote="Second and Chalmers" data-source="post: 1409574" data-attributes="member: 527609"><p>The legend of Self the recruiter is slightly overstated. That's true at Kansas too actually.</p><p></p><p>Here are all the top 100 guys in Self's classes versus Weber's late run</p><p></p><p>2001: #62 Roger Powell</p><p>2002: #19 Dee Brown, #48 Deron Williams, #78 James Augustine, #86 Aaron Spears</p><p>2003: #28 Rich McBride, #53 Brian Randle</p><p>Four NBA players, only one of any meaningful length, among that group, who was also the only first rounder and only lottery pick</p><p></p><p>(<strong>'03-04, 13-3 1st in B1G; '04-05, 15-1 1st in B1G; '05-06, 11-5 T-2nd in B1G</strong>)</p><p></p><p>2009: #35 DJ Richardson, #49 Brandon Paul</p><p>2010: #24 Jereme Richmond, #29 Meyers Leonard, #76 Crandall Head</p><p>2011: #65 Mike Shaw, #66 Myke Henry, #69 Tracy Abrams, #78 Nnanna Egwu</p><p>Three NBA players, only one of any meaningful length (so far) among that group, who was also the only first rounder and only lottery pick</p><p></p><p>(<strong>'11-12, 6-12 9th in B1G; '12-13 8-10 T-7th in B1G; '13-14 7-11 T-8th in B1G</strong>)</p><p></p><p>When I talk about new information changing my way of thinking over the past decade, that is honestly probably the most significant single part of it. That's like a science experiment where you look at the results and say "whoops, the determinative variable isn't what I thought it was"</p><p></p><p>And of course you look at those two lists of players and in your head you immediately start going "well wait a minute, those aren't the same at all for X, Y and Z reasons." Scouting, player development, fit to the system, team discipline, number of years you keep the players, etc etc.</p><p></p><p>My whole point is that that's exactly right! And its the "X, Y and Z reasons" that are the actual driving force in college basketball.</p><p></p><p>If Brad Underwood can get "X Y and Z" right, he's going to win here, whether it's with a bunch of Ayo Dosunmu's or a bunch of Alan Griffin's. And then, if we can get the "X Y and Z" right and start filling that chart in with EJ Liddell and Adam Miller and co (we've already begun with Ayo), we are going to be back to the penthouse in short order.</p><p></p><p>But then if our next couple classes look like either of those charts above, everyone here is going to freak out and worship the ground at Underwood's feet, certain that B1G championships are inevitable, yet it will mean nothing and end just like Weber and Groce did without that "X Y and Z".</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Second and Chalmers, post: 1409574, member: 527609"] The legend of Self the recruiter is slightly overstated. That's true at Kansas too actually. Here are all the top 100 guys in Self's classes versus Weber's late run 2001: #62 Roger Powell 2002: #19 Dee Brown, #48 Deron Williams, #78 James Augustine, #86 Aaron Spears 2003: #28 Rich McBride, #53 Brian Randle Four NBA players, only one of any meaningful length, among that group, who was also the only first rounder and only lottery pick ([B]'03-04, 13-3 1st in B1G; '04-05, 15-1 1st in B1G; '05-06, 11-5 T-2nd in B1G[/B]) 2009: #35 DJ Richardson, #49 Brandon Paul 2010: #24 Jereme Richmond, #29 Meyers Leonard, #76 Crandall Head 2011: #65 Mike Shaw, #66 Myke Henry, #69 Tracy Abrams, #78 Nnanna Egwu Three NBA players, only one of any meaningful length (so far) among that group, who was also the only first rounder and only lottery pick ([B]'11-12, 6-12 9th in B1G; '12-13 8-10 T-7th in B1G; '13-14 7-11 T-8th in B1G[/B]) When I talk about new information changing my way of thinking over the past decade, that is honestly probably the most significant single part of it. That's like a science experiment where you look at the results and say "whoops, the determinative variable isn't what I thought it was" And of course you look at those two lists of players and in your head you immediately start going "well wait a minute, those aren't the same at all for X, Y and Z reasons." Scouting, player development, fit to the system, team discipline, number of years you keep the players, etc etc. My whole point is that that's exactly right! And its the "X, Y and Z reasons" that are the actual driving force in college basketball. If Brad Underwood can get "X Y and Z" right, he's going to win here, whether it's with a bunch of Ayo Dosunmu's or a bunch of Alan Griffin's. And then, if we can get the "X Y and Z" right and start filling that chart in with EJ Liddell and Adam Miller and co (we've already begun with Ayo), we are going to be back to the penthouse in short order. But then if our next couple classes look like either of those charts above, everyone here is going to freak out and worship the ground at Underwood's feet, certain that B1G championships are inevitable, yet it will mean nothing and end just like Weber and Groce did without that "X Y and Z". [/QUOTE]
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