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<blockquote data-quote="Obelix" data-source="post: 1409815" data-attributes="member: 7292"><p>That's not what I said, so please do not put words in my mouth. What I said was that team starting last season would not have been favored (projected) to make the tournament, but would have finished the season with a better record (than what we actually did). The best players would still be Frazier, Tilmon, Black, Kipper and probably (as you added) JCL. Two of them true freshmen (Frazier, Tilmon) having an impact. How much better would have depended on any further additions in the Spring (2017) including possible 5th year transfer (not just freshmen) or otherwise and how these players would mesh together. You do not know, neither would anyone else would ever know. As I had said multiple times in the past, unfortunately, Groce's last class did address some of obvious positional gaps, yet it was too late for him (Frazier, Tilmon).</p><p></p><p>On this year, we have absolutely no idea. I think the same 5 would have been really good, Tilmon with Black, allowing Kipper in his natural position and Frazier at PG, JCL could score (and I believe he will be good at DePaul). Plus with DW you can add rebounding, rotation, etc. But you can't assume that Groce would have taken 1.5 years off in recruiting and would not have added any players or that players would not have been able to contribute, especially when in the year before (last year), Tilmon and Frazier would obviously be critical elements to the team even as Freshmen. This is not a steady state of a really amazing team that no freshman will play. As with this year (and last year with Frazier), if you are good (independent of the rankings), you will find a spot on the rotation. </p><p></p><p>You can't also assume that there would be no attrition either and project Mark Smith or TJL to just take space on the bench but not contribute. There will likely be no mass exodus, but if Mark Smith did not play and was not a contributor (under Groce), he would likely still transfer. If not, it would mean that his last year may have gone better.</p><p></p><p>You do not know. We have no idea what even this team this year will be, let alone project a team 1.5-2 years from now assuming BU makes no addition, or that all of his additions do not contribute as underclassmen.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Obelix, post: 1409815, member: 7292"] That's not what I said, so please do not put words in my mouth. What I said was that team starting last season would not have been favored (projected) to make the tournament, but would have finished the season with a better record (than what we actually did). The best players would still be Frazier, Tilmon, Black, Kipper and probably (as you added) JCL. Two of them true freshmen (Frazier, Tilmon) having an impact. How much better would have depended on any further additions in the Spring (2017) including possible 5th year transfer (not just freshmen) or otherwise and how these players would mesh together. You do not know, neither would anyone else would ever know. As I had said multiple times in the past, unfortunately, Groce's last class did address some of obvious positional gaps, yet it was too late for him (Frazier, Tilmon). On this year, we have absolutely no idea. I think the same 5 would have been really good, Tilmon with Black, allowing Kipper in his natural position and Frazier at PG, JCL could score (and I believe he will be good at DePaul). Plus with DW you can add rebounding, rotation, etc. But you can't assume that Groce would have taken 1.5 years off in recruiting and would not have added any players or that players would not have been able to contribute, especially when in the year before (last year), Tilmon and Frazier would obviously be critical elements to the team even as Freshmen. This is not a steady state of a really amazing team that no freshman will play. As with this year (and last year with Frazier), if you are good (independent of the rankings), you will find a spot on the rotation. You can't also assume that there would be no attrition either and project Mark Smith or TJL to just take space on the bench but not contribute. There will likely be no mass exodus, but if Mark Smith did not play and was not a contributor (under Groce), he would likely still transfer. If not, it would mean that his last year may have gone better. You do not know. We have no idea what even this team this year will be, let alone project a team 1.5-2 years from now assuming BU makes no addition, or that all of his additions do not contribute as underclassmen. [/QUOTE]
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Looking back on recent Illini Basketball history
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