Rutgers 62, Illinois 59 POSTGAME

RickBB · Mar 5, 2017

Illiini said:
Inexplicable. That's the word that applies to John Groce going for the hold-the-ball routine. Our section of the stands in the RAC, full of Alina, was groaning as we could see this game being pissed away Right in front of our eyes. That "prevent defense" never ever works.

You don't have to be a basketball expert to have seen that. Why didn't Groce? I just can't believe it. To be cocky like that, and think you could hold onto a two point lead, and have it blow up was so embarrassing walking out in front of all the Rutgers fans.

God bless my wife for not counting the number of times I said "I can't believe it" on our drive home.

John Groce May be a great coach, but not here and not today.

Unfortunately....you see the "prevent defense" by coaches at all levels in all sports. I'm sure fans !!!!!ed in the pre-shot clock era when teams went to 4 corners...but the thing is that back then, you COULD actually just run the game out. And it's easy to Monday morning QB the decision. I'm not defending it though..I hate it...in every sport...maybe if you have less than 90 seconds, but there are too many potential things to go wrong otherwise, like mainly, we don't have someone who can really break someone down and create by themselves on a consistent basis....at least not if there are restraints of the buzzer going off. If there is no clock expiring, TJL, and even Malcolm have all options available...keep dribbling, pass, shoot, pass to someone who doesn't have a great shot but someone 2 passes away has one. Asit dwindles, those options decrease until the only option is to shoot. That's why Malcolm gets blocked at end of clock situations a ton...help is coming the the defender 2 passes away, then 1, and then time doesn't allow him to use his shot fake...and then he's screwed.

But, as soon as we started walking the ball up...and looking to the sidelines fro a play call on EVERY SINGLE POSSESSION, instead fo just, I don't know...playing basketball....i had a feeling we were in trouble.

As an aside, I ventured onto some other boards just to see what coaching rumors there were....holy cow is that the worst of humanity. While there may be some posters on here I don't agree with, or even think "Man, that's a downright dumb opinion."....at least this board is largely void of that...so thanks...at least our despair has a level of decorum to it over here.

breadman · Mar 5, 2017

Ulysses Everett McGill said:
WADR, this is a ridiculous argument IMO. If you don't have it you can't give it. During the game, did Hill look well-rested, or at least not dead tired, to you? How many games this year has he played with one minute of rest or less, as if there could be much less?

I absolutely agree with this, therefore, PUT THE KIPPER BACK IN!!!!

illini80 · Mar 5, 2017

breadman said:
Many have commented on this 39 minutes for Hill. But you know, there is all of next week to rest up. So, give it up today, and then you can sleep afterward.

I think the thing that killed MH at the end was the stretch where he had to guard Sanders when TJL went out with foul trouble.

Speaking of TJL, he plays a very physical game. I'm a bit surprised he has been able to stay out of foul trouble for the most part. It will be interesting to see how that plays out in the future.

TCTORNADO · Mar 5, 2017

I'm tired of the whole "gassed" thing, just another excuse for poor performance. No excuses, please!

SescIllini · Mar 5, 2017

Regarding Kipper, how many other players are allowed to have a bad play. He missed a two footed planted dunk but we retained possession. He later got a contested rebounded on the same possession and hit one free throw. If we were -7 when he was in, how many points were scored because of him. Not enough of time to decided that Kipper is off and to bench him.

Tacomallini · Mar 5, 2017

Long time fan of this forum…never posted before:
1. I haven't watched any games this year but have listened to most on TuneIn. Deon Thomas was announcing this game with Barnhart and was about as critical of Groce's final timeout decision as a U of I announcer can be. Deon basically predicted exactly what happened…not scoring following timeout, giving up a shot to Rutgers, not having that timeout and having to rush a shot…disappointing.
2. I'm sure it's been discussed somewhere on this forum - whatever happened to DJ Williams? Is he still on the bench for games? Haven't heard anything about his status since mid January. A few minutes from him could've made a difference in this game w/ MH winded and KN off his game.
Groce gone or not, I'm still rooting for this team for however many games remain.

breadman · Mar 5, 2017

TCTORNADO said:
I'm tired of the whole "gassed" thing, just another excuse for poor performance. No excuses, please!

Oh, I don't know. I thought they performed their "statue" offense to perfection.

Rafale · Mar 5, 2017

TKM9495 said:
I saw this coming from a mile away. This has been standard procedure for decades. I knew that the last couple of weeks was just a trick to lure us back in. I said to my wife before the game started that they would blow it.

On the bright side, if they were one of the last four in the NCAA tournament, it probably would have saved Groce's job, and that isn't what is best for the future.

You are so correct. The last four seasons have seemed like "Groundhog Day".

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Obelix · Mar 5, 2017

SescIllini said:
Regarding Kipper, how many other players are allowed to have a bad play. He missed a two footed planted dunk but we retained possession. He later got a contested rebounded on the same possession and hit one free throw. If we were -7 when he was in, how many points were scored because of him. Not enough of time to decided that Kipper is off and to bench him.

Again, it was not one bad play. He had two quick fouls, a bad turnover, and two missed shots in 5 minutes, one of them point-blank. It was not just that shot. I really like Kipper, I have praised him as key factor in our better play, but he was indeed having a bad game, as were others. Minus 7 was too large in that game, especially when you have Hill.

It is not that other players such as Black or Finke, for example, who also did not have good games, were allowed to stay in because of favoritism. It is the fact that there is no Malcolm Hill, a player that caliber, at their position.

We can play Monday morning QB all day, when you lose, you can make the hypothesis that Kipper would have been a difference maker. But when you are -7 in a game like this, and you take Malcolm out, you can easily fall behind too much and then blame Groce for not realizing that Kipper was having a bad game. Minus 7 in a game like that was big.

I do not think we lost the game because of Kipper. We lost the game because, unfortunately, we could not get more from Finke, Black, Abrams, and Kipper collectively. We got contributions from 2 players (Hill and Mav), and 2 were so-so (TJL and JCL).

Maybe the exhaustion and effort during the latest turnaround (last few games) finally took its toll on us, the reason that you can't dig a deep hope earlier in the B1G season. We are not that deep or talented to sustain long winning streaks. Season was lost at the beginning of B1G.

Rafale · Mar 5, 2017

4on4atIMPE said:
Ulysses my friend . . . You just brought some good feelings for me in the middle of a crappy day. I am going to log off and drink to hoop dreams past and future. There will be better days ahead for the Orange and Blue.

I-L-L

Assuming you played in the '73-'75 era, I think I can remember torching you a few times. I'd hit a few long bombs, then you'd come out and try to shut me down. Then you'd go for the fake and I'd drive for any easy lay-up. Your teammates would start screaming "whose man?". Those were the days....

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Illiini · Mar 5, 2017

You can blame the loss on a lot of things, missing on open looks, giving open looks, etc, etc.

But I'll not understand the thinking you could wait out a two point lead. It never works. All you're doing is giving the other team a wall to punch holes through, and they will. Up in the stands we were dying. We knew this was coming. If you're going to go down, go down swinging, not walking backwards hoping the other guy can't keep up and plant one. They planted one.

The unwillingness to take the game to Rutgers killed my waving support of Grose. Yes, Sanders was doing a number on us, but you don't stop that by keeping the ball out of his hands by standing around. You do that by (a) changing what you're doing, and (b) keep ahead of him/them by scoring before he can.

I'm not an X's and O's expert. Heck, I'll admit I'm a novice. Roundball was never my sport. But it's easy to see the flow of a game, and when what you're doing isn't working. And at that point, you change what you're you're doing. :rant: :rage:

Ulysses Everett McGill · Mar 5, 2017

Rafale said:
Assuming you played in the '73-'75 era, I think I can remember torching you a few times. I'd hit a few long bombs, then you'd come out and try to shut me down. Then you'd go for the fake and I'd drive for any easy lay-up. Your teammates would start screaming "whose man?". Those were the days....

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I never degraded myself by yelling "whose man" when you did your blowby. Instead, I screamed "switch that next time" to whichever teammate was nearest me.

Defense is just something to do while waiting to go on offense.

Rafale · Mar 5, 2017

Ulysses Everett McGill said:
I never degraded myself by yelling "whose man" when you did your blowby. Instead, I screamed "switch that next time" to whichever teammate was nearest me.

Defense is just something to do while waiting to go on offense.

Yeah, I guess you may be right. My memory has dimmed a bit after all these years. A few times you ran into my roommate Keith's pick and you seemed as if you had just hit a Ford F-250. That seemed to take some steam out of your offensive game and made it easier for me to cover you. I continued played at least three times a week until about five years ago when my knees finally wore out. Suspect I could still whip you in a game of 21 though, or maybe horse (if you've porked out by now).

ILLHangOut · Mar 5, 2017

Illiniguy13 said:
hogwash

Do you care to elaborate?

Ulysses Everett McGill · Mar 5, 2017

Rafale said:
Yeah, I guess you may be right. My memory has dimmed a bit after all these years. A few times you ran into my roommate Keith's pick and you seemed as if you had just hit a Ford F-250. That seemed to take some steam out of your offensive game and made it easier for me to cover you. I continued played at least three times a week until about five years ago when my knees finally wore out. Suspect I could still whip you in a game of 21 though, or maybe horse (if you've porked out by now).

God I love how we talked smack in the 70s.

jrichisamazing · Mar 5, 2017

I thought it was pretty obvious that the team was exhausted at the end and Groce was trying to give them a breather on offense. Just didn't work out.

VA Illini Chief · Mar 5, 2017

A day later I am still in disbelief how we blew that opportunity. I had just purchased tickets for Thursday and of course they lose. Still going to be there to root them on but now it looks like it would have given us the bid. Now it's down to Purdue even if we beat Michigan..ugh

Rafale · Mar 6, 2017

Ulysses Everett McGill said:
God I love how we talked smack in the 70s.

I never stopped.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Rafale · Mar 6, 2017

jrichisamazing said:
I thought it was pretty obvious that the team was exhausted at the end and Groce was trying to give them a breather on offense. Just didn't work out.

Another example of poor coaching tactics, if true. How about giving them a "breather" after the buzzer rings?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

whovous · Mar 6, 2017

Rafale said:
Another example of poor coaching tactics, if true. How about giving them a "breather" after the buzzer rings?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

What? Once you've used your timeouts, you don't get additional "breathers" after the "buzzer rings". Should he have put in someone fresh, like Tate, Thorne or AJ?

Illiniguy13 · Mar 6, 2017

ILLHangOut said:
Do you care to elaborate?

"Outside of Tate and Thorne statistically he's our worst player that's had any real tick this year. He just can't play that many minutes.

It really doesn't matter if "statistically" Kipper is our worst player that gets tick--he's already cemented himself as one of our highest energy guys and perhaps best on-ball defender. He absolutely should get good minutes.

TCTORNADO · Mar 6, 2017

Illiniguy13 said:
"Outside of Tate and Thorne statistically he's our worst player that's had any real tick this year. He just can't play that many minutes.

It really doesn't matter if "statistically" Kipper is our worst player that gets tick--he's already cemented himself as one of our highest energy guys and perhaps best on-ball defender. He absolutely should get good minutes.

Nah, just leave the "gassed" guys in, they deserve it they are Seniors.