St. Louis Cardinals 2021

#753      
If I know the Cardinals, this is probably the one major starting pitcher we will sign this offseason. If so, that's pretty meh. Would have preferred to bring Kim back on a short deal honestly. I think Matz will be fine, I was just hoping for Scherzer or Stroman, who I think could have had All-Star or even Cy Young potential for us. Maybe this means we have the money for a shortstop but I'd be surprised
 
#754      
Matz isn't very sexy (Scherzer etal) but he's functional. Mid level rotation dude. He's a lefthander which they need. Slightly above average ground ball rate which suits the GG inf. He's had a tendency to give up hrs but they will be a little less in StL (Hopefully). He is one of the better LSP options in free agency. I would have liked a 3 year deal instead of 4 but with 7 other teams bidding on him it had to be. For at least the first couple of years this should be a win.
 
#755      
Matz isn't very sexy (Scherzer etal) but he's functional. Mid level rotation dude. He's a lefthander which they need. Slightly above average ground ball rate which suits the GG inf. He's had a tendency to give up hrs but they will be a little less in StL (Hopefully). He is one of the better LSP options in free agency. I would have liked a 3 year deal instead of 4 but with 7 other teams bidding on him it had to be. For at least the first couple of years this should be a win.

Yeah, that all makes sense to a certain degree but my thinking is at a certain point loading up on 2 WAR pitchers is diminishing returns. Matz is better than doing nothing, but worse than doing something significant. Add on that Matz has a bad track record with staying healthy enough to pitch a lot of innings, and it seems like we committed 4 years to a 1-year stopgap. We honestly need a front of the rotation guy. Waino was awesome this year, but should we really be counting on a 40-year-old to do that again? This guy's thinking on this is kind of where I'm at:

 
#756      
I'm okay with this move, especially by comparison with the money that Stroman was likely going to command. He'll definitely be an innings eater. In the last 3 full MLB seasons, he's pitched at least 150 innings. He has a sinker that averages about 94.5 MPH. He doesn't have a K rate so my guess is the Cardinals are banking on him being able to get outs with the elite defense behind him.
 
#757      
Yeah, that all makes sense to a certain degree but my thinking is at a certain point loading up on 2 WAR pitchers is diminishing returns. Matz is better than doing nothing, but worse than doing something significant. Add on that Matz has a bad track record with staying healthy enough to pitch a lot of innings, and it seems like we committed 4 years to a 1-year stopgap. We honestly need a front of the rotation guy. Waino was awesome this year, but should we really be counting on a 40-year-old to do that again? This guy's thinking on this is kind of where I'm at:

I know what you are saying and I don't disagree with your point of view. Thing is this is the Saint Louis Cardinal organization not the LA Dodgers or the NY Yankees. They ain't gonna spend top dollar in the free agent market. They have made trades for top tear talent (Goldy and Arenado are recent examples) but to get into a bidding war with the top free agents is something that they have not done in a while. I don't expect Waino to repeat. I doubt they do either.
 
#758      
the Front Range
I know what you are saying and I don't disagree with your point of view. Thing is this is the Saint Louis Cardinal organization not the LA Dodgers or the NY Yankees. They ain't gonna spend top dollar in the free agent market. They have made trades for top tear talent (Goldy and Arenado are recent examples) but to get into a bidding war with the top free agents is something that they have not done in a while. I don't expect Waino to repeat. I doubt they do either.
I keep hearing we aren’t done with starting pitching, and we should see something shake from the tree soon. Not sure if this is true but who else could we realistically get at this point?
 
#760      
I keep hearing we aren’t done with starting pitching, and we should see something shake from the tree soon. Not sure if this is true but who else could we realistically get at this point?

Probably some cheap innings eater that can swing between the pen and the rotation depending on health and performance of our presumtive rotation of Flaherty/Waino/Matz/Mikolas/Hudson. Hope I'm wrong.
 
#761      
I'm okay with this move, especially by comparison with the money that Stroman was likely going to command. He'll definitely be an innings eater. In the last 3 full MLB seasons, he's pitched at least 150 innings. He has a sinker that averages about 94.5 MPH. He doesn't have a K rate so my guess is the Cardinals are banking on him being able to get outs with the elite defense behind him.
150 innings isn't really that impressive a number. The most he's ever pitched is 160.1. Stroman, the same age, has topped that 4 times, and pitched more than 200 innings twice. Stroman pitched 179 innings last season to Matz's 150. He pitched 59 in the shortened 2019 season to Matz 30. Matz' best season was worth 2.4 WAR. Stroman has topped 3 WAR 3 times (including last season) and his best season was worth 5.2 WAR. Stroman has never had a negative WAR season, Matz has twice. Stroman is more expensive because he is a significantly better pitcher.
 
#762      
150 innings isn't really that impressive a number. The most he's ever pitched is 160.1. Stroman, the same age, has topped that 4 times, and pitched more than 200 innings twice. Stroman pitched 179 innings last season to Matz's 150. He pitched 59 in the shortened 2019 season to Matz 30. Matz' best season was worth 2.4 WAR. Stroman has topped 3 WAR 3 times (including last season) and his best season was worth 5.2 WAR. Stroman has never had a negative WAR season, Matz has twice. Stroman is more expensive because he is a significantly better pitcher.

While I'd totally get where you're coming from on all this, I'd still prefer Matz over someone like Oviedo or KK. Matz will give you at least 5, maybe 6 innings, whereas you may only get 3, maybe 4 from the two I mentioned. Plus you'd have to think that getting out of a division like the AL East would improve his numbers as well.