Syracuse game (Nov. 29th)

Status
Not open for further replies.
#51      
If Coach Boheim is a second or third rate coach, why would Duke's Coach K consult with him about the techniques used to play the match up.. Somebody said it perfectly. The Syracuse defense is different and hard to attack offensively. That is the essence of coaching. Prepare something defensively that is difficult to solve offensively.
Nothing personal but this irks me to high Heaven. A good zone is not always a matchup. Syracuse plays a fairly standard 2-3 for today’s game when you have to guard the 3 point line. They’re just really good at it because they practice it as much as everybody else practices their man defense.

They won’t even match up when the ball hits the high post, depending on who catches it there. For us, they’ll probably guard anybody in the starting 5 there. Dain? Ty? They’re gonna give them the FT jumper all day, and guard them as they start to drive.
 
#52      
Nothing personal but this irks me to high Heaven. A good zone is not always a matchup. Syracuse plays a fairly standard 2-3 for today’s game when you have to guard the 3 point line. They’re just really good at it because they practice it as much as everybody else practices their man defense.

They won’t even match up when the ball hits the high post, depending on who catches it there. For us, they’ll probably guard anybody in the starting 5 there. Dain? Ty? They’re gonna give them the FT jumper all day, and guard them as they start to drive.
I am not sure why you are irked. I did not mean to imply there is only one version of a zone defense.
 
#53      
If Coach Boheim is a second or third rate coach, why would Duke's Coach K consult with him about the techniques used to play the match up.. Somebody said it perfectly. The Syracuse defense is different and hard to attack offensively. That is the essence of coaching. Prepare something defensively that is difficult to solve offensively.
This is obviously dated, but I thought it was
interesting…

CC52F415-799E-4D30-B901-242A92014471.jpeg
 

Attachments

  • 46109946-D2FB-4755-9FAF-B0C6A108FB80.jpeg
    46109946-D2FB-4755-9FAF-B0C6A108FB80.jpeg
    136.5 KB · Views: 10
#55      
To beat any zone, you need good perimeter shooters, good passers, and a very good shooter who catches at the FT line, can pass, and ca hit the 15 ft jumper (our best candidate would be RJ or Goode who is not playing). Hawk running the baseline with Mayer and TSJ on the wings. Ball has to move quickly but with focus. Epps or Sky at the point must shoot well. The biggest key, IMHO, is sloppy or risky passes must be eliminated. Hard to do since college defenders have wide wingspans and great foot speed....and the Illiini have a propensity to make too many nonchalant passes.

The key is getting the ball to the middle in the paint at FT line. So many options open up at that point. But if you are not hitting shots from the perimeter, at which the Illini are fairly efficient but not dependable, you will not win. So make them pay on the other end with ferocious defense!!

Big factors to success against the zone is being patient and hitting shots. That 30 second shot clock works to the advantage of zone defense and results in some rushed shots as it winds down.

Good shooters salivate when an opponent chooses to play zone....if they have good/dependable handlers and passers. The history of this Illini team in regard to turnover stats would make an outside observer think they will struggle in that regard, but this is a school team so let's hope they have paid some kind of attention and a desire to learn. I would love to see single digit TOs...but not expecting it.

For those who want to see the Illini runnin' and dunkin', wait until another game...it won't be this one.
 
#56      

Bigtex

DFW
To beat any zone, you need good perimeter shooters, good passers, and a very good shooter who catches at the FT line, can pass, and ca hit the 15 ft jumper (our best candidate would be RJ or Goode who is not playing). Hawk running the baseline with Mayer and TSJ on the wings. Ball has to move quickly but with focus. Epps or Sky at the point must shoot well. The biggest key, IMHO, is sloppy or risky passes must be eliminated. Hard to do since college defenders have wide wingspans and great foot speed....and the Illiini have a propensity to make too many nonchalant passes.

The key is getting the ball to the middle in the paint at FT line. So many options open up at that point. But if you are not hitting shots from the perimeter, at which the Illini are fairly efficient but not dependable, you will not win. So make them pay on the other end with ferocious defense!!

Big factors to success against the zone is being patient and hitting shots. That 30 second shot clock works to the advantage of zone defense and results in some rushed shots as it winds down.

Good shooters salivate when an opponent chooses to play zone....if they have good/dependable handlers and passers. The history of this Illini team in regard to turnover stats would make an outside observer think they will struggle in that regard, but this is a school team so let's hope they have paid some kind of attention and a desire to learn. I would love to see single digit TOs...but not expecting it.

For those who want to see the Illini runnin' and dunkin', wait until another game...it won't be this one.
Nice review. Imo Unfortunately this will be a tough game for Illinois.
 
#57      
To beat any zone, you need good perimeter shooters, good passers, and a very good shooter who catches at the FT line, can pass, and ca hit the 15 ft jumper (our best candidate would be RJ or Goode who is not playing). Hawk running the baseline with Mayer and TSJ on the wings. Ball has to move quickly but with focus. Epps or Sky at the point must shoot well. The biggest key, IMHO, is sloppy or risky passes must be eliminated. Hard to do since college defenders have wide wingspans and great foot speed....and the Illiini have a propensity to make too many nonchalant passes.

The key is getting the ball to the middle in the paint at FT line. So many options open up at that point. But if you are not hitting shots from the perimeter, at which the Illini are fairly efficient but not dependable, you will not win. So make them pay on the other end with ferocious defense!!

Big factors to success against the zone is being patient and hitting shots. That 30 second shot clock works to the advantage of zone defense and results in some rushed shots as it winds down.

Good shooters salivate when an opponent chooses to play zone....if they have good/dependable handlers and passers. The history of this Illini team in regard to turnover stats would make an outside observer think they will struggle in that regard, but this is a school team so let's hope they have paid some kind of attention and a desire to learn. I would love to see single digit TOs...but not expecting it.

For those who want to see the Illini runnin' and dunkin', wait until another game...it won't be this one.
Somewhat disagree. To beat any zone, you need good ball movement. You can beat it without shooting lots of 3s if you get the D out of position. Of course, lights out perimeter shooting does help do that,too.
 
#58      
Somewhat disagree. To beat any zone, you need good ball movement. You can beat it without shooting lots of 3s if you get the D out of position. Of course, lights out perimeter shooting does help do that,too.
I agree…ball movement is important, the high post is a weak point, and 3’s are a helluva zone buster but there are other
points of emphasis and means of attack.
There’s a lot of ways to skin a cat

1.) Liberal use of pass fakes and ball referrals after distorting the zone
2.) Utilizing the short corner (getting someone behind the zone)
3 .) Running a cutter/flasher from the
weakside to the high post/mid post
ballside…like others have hinted at.
4.) Screening the zone
5.) Drive a Seam and Kick
6.) Skip passes can be effective against many types of zones…unlike with a man-to-man where it is unadvisable
7.) Stacks can often times give zones problems
8.)Beat a zone down the floor, before they can get set up

Patience…

Syracuse will sometimes trap the corners…and on rare occasions, they send their guards to run up trap just across the half-court line. So it is also different from a standard zone in that regard. We just have to be patient and
and under control. It’s not really about
forcing a lot of TOs…it’s more a token
pressure kind of thing…and forcing us to take the shots they want us to take.

Boeheim believe most coaches zone offensive stuff is weaker than their man
offenses…I’d have to say I agree.
 
Last edited:
#60      
If Boeheim's zone defense is so tough to beat why have his teams lost an avg of 9 games a year for the past 8 years in conference? Since leaving the Big East for the ACC, they have one decent season and that was the first one in 2013-2014. His time has past.
 
#61      
If Boeheim's zone defense is so tough to beat why have his teams lost an avg of 9 games a year for the past 8 years in conference? Since leaving the Big East for the ACC, they have one decent season and that was the first one in 2013-2014. His time has past.
Yeah, if it wasnt for what I suspect is his love for the game and his ridiculously HUGE ego…he would have already rode off into the sunset.

As for a zone itself…it was here before
Jim Boeheim(pre-dating man-man defense in fact) and it will be here after Jim Boeheim. It will exist in some form…it’s just too effective not to be used in some way. It has more than proven itself in every era of college basketball…and continues to do just that.

Syracuse doesn’t do as well in their conference because they see their 2-3 zone
all the time…and they get creative about
finding ways to beat it. (Think: 20 game Bigten Schedule…just like how Daddy Brad
started owning Juan after a while…)

But most teams play man, as their primary…so his zone is effective come tournament time because it is more exotic. It is a much harder prep…In my mind that goes a long way in explaining their successful tourney run last season with a rather average team.

In terms of our upcoming contest with ‘Cuse…I would simply say that overconfidence is generally considered a bad idea when you’re heading into a match-up with a hall of fame coach.

Illinois 74
Syracuse 68
 
Last edited:
#62      
Yeah, if it wasnt for what I suspect is his love for the game and his ridiculously HUGE ego…he would have already rode off into the sunset.

As for a zone itself…it was here before
Jim Boeheim(pre-dating man-man defense in fact) and it will be here after Jim Boeheim. It will exist in some form…it’s just too effective not to be used in some way. It has more than proven itself in every era of college basketball…and continues to do just that.

Syracuse doesn’t do as well in their conference because they see their 2-3 zone
all the time…and they get creative about
finding ways to beat it. (Think: 20 game Bigten Schedule…just like how Daddy Brad
started owning Juan after a while…)

But most teams play man, as their primary…so his zone is effective come tournament time because it is more exotic. It is a much harder prep…In my mind that goes a long way in explaining their successful tourney run last season with a rather average team.

In terms of our upcoming contest with ‘Cuse…I would simply say that overconfidence is generally considered a bad idea when you’re heading into a match-up with a hall of fame coach.

Illinois 74
Syracuse 68
I thought he would staying in coaching until his son graduated and was done playing for Syracuse - which happened last year. To be honest, I thought he was a grandson until I looked it up. At this point, at age 78, your first sentence must be correct.
 
#63      
To beat any zone, you need good perimeter shooters, good passers, and a very good shooter who catches at the FT line, can pass, and ca hit the 15 ft jumper (our best candidate would be RJ or Goode who is not playing). Hawk running the baseline with Mayer and TSJ on the wings. Ball has to move quickly but with focus. Epps or Sky at the point must shoot well. The biggest key, IMHO, is sloppy or risky passes must be eliminated. Hard to do since college defenders have wide wingspans and great foot speed....and the Illiini have a propensity to make too many nonchalant passes.

The key is getting the ball to the middle in the paint at FT line. So many options open up at that point. But if you are not hitting shots from the perimeter, at which the Illini are fairly efficient but not dependable, you will not win. So make them pay on the other end with ferocious defense!!

Big factors to success against the zone is being patient and hitting shots. That 30 second shot clock works to the advantage of zone defense and results in some rushed shots as it winds down.

Good shooters salivate when an opponent chooses to play zone....if they have good/dependable handlers and passers. The history of this Illini team in regard to turnover stats would make an outside observer think they will struggle in that regard, but this is a school team so let's hope they have paid some kind of attention and a desire to learn. I would love to see single digit TOs...but not expecting it.

For those who want to see the Illini runnin' and dunkin', wait until another game...it won't be this one.
I generally put my point guard in the middle or as the flasher/runner vs zones. Get a player maker/decision maker moving around in the weak spots of the zone and you get something good more often than not.

To that note, I’d kinda love to see us put Epps there.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.