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Old Oct 1, 2011, 08:23 PM   #51
ncoillini
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I didn't see the entire play, just the knee. As someone who actually played, I wouldn't have done it. I will say that all you recliner refs have no idea what happens on the field. It is not square dancing. I don't condone it but, like I said, you have no idea.
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Old Oct 1, 2011, 09:15 PM   #52
kbo007
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I'm assuming a NW Alum has a major part in what is published on yahoo.com. It seems like an awfully pety offense to make the front page on Yahoo
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Old Oct 1, 2011, 09:17 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by ncoillini View Post
I didn't see the entire play, just the knee. As someone who actually played, I wouldn't have done it. I will say that all you recliner refs have no idea what happens on the field. It is not square dancing. I don't condone it but, like I said, you have no idea.
NCO I tend to agree. HOWEVER, it's just like school where if u get caught, even if everyone else is doing it, you still have to pay the price because you were stupid enough to get caught.

He needs to sit a game, because of PR and because it's the right thing to do.
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Old Oct 1, 2011, 10:21 PM   #54
weasel88
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I'm assuming a NW Alum has a major part in what is published on yahoo.com. It seems like an awfully pety offense to make the front page on Yahoo
Totally disagree. A deliberate shot to the groin is far from petty. If you think so you've never taken a knee to the huevos from a 250 pound dude. This was premeditated, classless, and makes anyone who condones this just as classless IMO.

And I love all the "NW Alums control the media" conspiracy running around this board...
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Old Oct 1, 2011, 10:41 PM   #55
NV Illini 74
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JB never should have done that, regardless, BUT...

Have these guys stopped wearing cups? Because the only way someone could have been hurt from that creampuff knee shot is if there was no cup involved AND JB scored a direct hit.

OTOH, his "victim" deserves kudos for seeing the ref right behind JB, and performing a flop that would make Dennis Rodman proud.

Also notice: the ref was about as nonchalant as he could be while throwing the flag. I mean, I think he yawned a couple times in there. If the ref thought the victim was in any danger of being hurt by JB's action, he would have been one heck of a lot more animated, and probably rushed to the victim's aid, and had JB detained.

Of course, the ref made the right call, because it was a really stupid thing for a player to do, and should absolutely not be tolerated.

So that's why I can see JB going to Zook and saying he hardly touched the guy, and he flopped, maybe that he was even a friend of his, and JB was just goofing around with him, etc. If Zook saw the replay, he probably agreeed and put JB back in.

Whatever, JB was stupid to do that, but it was far more a blooper than some vicious act.

I could be wrong, but that's my take on it.
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Old Oct 1, 2011, 11:36 PM   #56
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And I love all the "NW Alums control the media" conspiracy running around this board...
While I'm loathe to give Northwestern any kind of credit, they do have an excellent journalism school which pumps out most of the columnists/journalists in Chicago. They don't control all media, but they do get a nice chunk of coverage because of the favorable opinions of their alumni.
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Old Oct 2, 2011, 12:23 AM   #57
IlliniSteve
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Saw it on Yahoo's homepage...being described as dirty and classless.

Not good publicity. Stupid move by Brown.
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Old Oct 2, 2011, 05:05 AM   #58
roundball1
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We really don't need this type of stuff!!! Zook better make an example out of this situation.. It has made the national scene and he needs to sit!!!!
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Old Oct 2, 2011, 06:34 AM   #59
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you have to wonder wtf he was thinking... maybe some dirty stuff was going on on the field from NU's side. But regardless that's NOT how you retaliate. Obviously JB still has some growing up to do and isn't where he needs to be maturity-wise. That's the kind of crap that got him kicked out of practices last year.
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Old Oct 2, 2011, 07:39 AM   #60
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It tells you a lot about Zook's approach to this kind of stuff. Brown stayed out there. That is one of the things that is wrong in football today IMO.
There's a reason we won the Fulmer cup under Zook. I've seen this video all over the Internet and had it emailed to me. A complete embarrassment. I wasn't at the game, but it sounds like some people were booing the call, which is in itself embarrassing.
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Old Oct 2, 2011, 07:41 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by weasel88 View Post
Totally disagree. A deliberate shot to the groin is far from petty. If you think so you've never taken a knee to the huevos from a 250 pound dude. This was premeditated, classless, and makes anyone who condones this just as classless IMO.
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Old Oct 2, 2011, 07:47 AM   #62
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Zook needs to get out in front of this ASAP. Say...we don't condone it, it was heat of the moment but that's no excuse, it is not representative of how we teach, etc. Then JB needs to sit out a game (luckily it is against IU).

If this doesn't happen, the perception will be that it is acceptable, and it isn't.
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Old Oct 2, 2011, 07:57 AM   #63
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There's a reason we won the Fulmer cup under Zook. I've seen this video all over the Internet and had it emailed to me. A complete embarrassment. I wasn't at the game, but it sounds like some people were booing the call, which is in itself embarrassing.
:rolleyes:

I posted this already, but here it goes again. Don't you remember last week, how it took Zook until Tuesday to figure out why Jeff Allen got ejected? I guarantee you that Zook did not see the incident when it occurred. The refs only announce "unsportsmanlike conduct" and they probably don't take too kindly to further questioning. It all happened in a split second. There were a million other things on the field Zook could have been looking at when the penalty occured.
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Old Oct 2, 2011, 08:36 AM   #64
IlliniBob89
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Tempest meet Teapot

Was it a dirty, stupid play? Yes
Should Illinois add to this circus by holding a press conference so that Jonathan Brown can make an act of contrition? No, just let the media fire burn out without adding fuel.

The worst aspect of this incident is that Brown will be on every officiating crew radar for the rest of his career. He's a difference maker and now will have to play under a microscope because of a stupid play.
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Old Oct 2, 2011, 08:50 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by IlliniBob89 View Post
Was it a dirty, stupid play? Yes
Should Illinois add to this circus by holding a press conference so that Jonathan Brown can make an act of contrition? No, just let the media fire burn out without adding fuel.

The worst aspect of this incident is that Brown will be on every officiating crew radar for the rest of his career. He's a difference maker and now will have to play under a microscope because of a stupid play.
A+++. Would read again.
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Old Oct 2, 2011, 09:06 AM   #66
fish48
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No, just let the media fire burn out without adding fuel.

.

Put it out quickly by releasing that Brown will be suspended for one week due to the unsportsmanlike penalty. Done and over with and as soon as week 7 gets here, Brown will be back on the field and it will hopefully be over with. This goes a long way with recuits that have high character. Most recruits that have high character have parents with high character. Most good parents want their kids to play for someone who holds their players accountable and puts sportsmanship and accountability ahead of the game.

Last edited by fish48; Oct 2, 2011 at 09:09 AM.
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Old Oct 2, 2011, 09:29 AM   #67
jdh8668
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What Brown did wasn't right BUT....I would be curious to see what led up to that. Looking over the play, nothing out of the ordinary looked to occur, but what do we know what was done in plays prior to that??? As a rule of thumb in sports, it's always the one who retaliates who gets caught by the refs/umps.
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Old Oct 2, 2011, 09:38 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by IlliniBob89 View Post
Was it a dirty, stupid play? Yes
Should Illinois add to this circus by holding a press conference so that Jonathan Brown can make an act of contrition? No, just let the media fire burn out without adding fuel.

The worst aspect of this incident is that Brown will be on every officiating crew radar for the rest of his career. He's a difference maker and now will have to play under a microscope because of a stupid play.
I agree. Brown should certainly sit a game and Zook can explain why at the weekly presser. That's sufficient in my book.
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Old Oct 2, 2011, 09:59 AM   #69
weasel88
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What Brown did wasn't right BUT....I would be curious to see what led up to that. Looking over the play, nothing out of the ordinary looked to occur, but what do we know what was done in plays prior to that??? As a rule of thumb in sports, it's always the one who retaliates who gets caught by the refs/umps.
It doesn't matter what happened before it. The "he started it first" argument is childish and deflects accountability for negative actions.
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Old Oct 2, 2011, 10:02 AM   #70
Chilliniwek
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Upon further review

This post isn't to defend Brown, but I had the game DVR'd and here's what I saw after numerous replays.

Ward had no defensive player in front of him and went into the defensive backfield right at Hawthorne, who eluded him. Hawthorne then basically stops, seeing that the play is basically over. Ward has his back to the play and there has not yet been a whistle.

Ward then gives Hawthorne a big shove to the upper shoulder/neck area, pushing him back. Brown enters and brings up the knee in retaliation.

The ref sees the play and throws the flag, while Ward holds his crotch with his right hand and signals to the ref that he was kneed.

Just a few seconds after that, from a ground level shot, Ward can be seen suddenly standing upright as if he's a-ok. Then, less than 20 seconds after the initial hit by Brown, the ref can be seen from a high shot making the call as Ward and a couple of other linemen stand behind him...

NU #66 approaches Ward and appears to give him a pat to the head, turns and gives himself a couple of chest thumps. Ward appears just fine, standing upright with no hand holding his supposedly injured privates and stays on the field for the TD play.

My take - the official called the penalty based upon the action, not because there was any actual injury. No angle of the play that was shown actually shows how much real impact, if any, there was. But it appears the ref had an angle that would have allowed him to know if there was.

So, Brown, makes a dumbass fake knee to the groin, Ward gets an Academy Award for making a miraculous recovery from something you don't easily recover from and the ref makes an accurate call - unsportsmanlike conduct, based upon the action, not the real result.
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Old Oct 2, 2011, 10:07 AM   #71
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^What I thought all along, he was getting his teammates back can we all move on now?
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Old Oct 2, 2011, 10:21 AM   #72
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^What I thought all along, he was getting his teammates back can we all move on now?

There's is still much rage to be had from people who wont see reasoning. I'm sorry, its just the way things are on message boards.

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Old Oct 2, 2011, 12:11 PM   #73
ill07
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I think that Brown's knee was uncalled for, even if in retaliation.

And not to minimize the inappropriateness at all, but JB does this and gets excoriated (as he should), but Vontaze Burfict does similar (and worse) things and the media gives him accolades for being "the meanest player in college football?"

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Old Oct 2, 2011, 12:33 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Chilliniwek View Post
This post isn't to defend Brown, but I had the game DVR'd and here's what I saw after numerous replays.

Ward had no defensive player in front of him and went into the defensive backfield right at Hawthorne, who eluded him. Hawthorne then basically stops, seeing that the play is basically over. Ward has his back to the play and there has not yet been a whistle.

Ward then gives Hawthorne a big shove to the upper shoulder/neck area, pushing him back. Brown enters and brings up the knee in retaliation.

The ref sees the play and throws the flag, while Ward holds his crotch with his right hand and signals to the ref that he was kneed.

Just a few seconds after that, from a ground level shot, Ward can be seen suddenly standing upright as if he's a-ok. Then, less than 20 seconds after the initial hit by Brown, the ref can be seen from a high shot making the call as Ward and a couple of other linemen stand behind him...

NU #66 approaches Ward and appears to give him a pat to the head, turns and gives himself a couple of chest thumps. Ward appears just fine, standing upright with no hand holding his supposedly injured privates and stays on the field for the TD play.

My take - the official called the penalty based upon the action, not because there was any actual injury. No angle of the play that was shown actually shows how much real impact, if any, there was. But it appears the ref had an angle that would have allowed him to know if there was.

So, Brown, makes a dumbass fake knee to the groin, Ward gets an Academy Award for making a miraculous recovery from something you don't easily recover from and the ref makes an accurate call - unsportsmanlike conduct, based upon the action, not the real result.
Just to add to this. I was watching from the stands the play before and noticed a gigantic hold on one of NU's runs against JB. As I watched a replay I zoomed to that play. Lo and behold, it was #70 (Ward) with the hold. But this was no "friendly" hold.




As you can see, Ward had JB by the neck and it led to a big play by them. The very next play, #70 takes a cheap shot at Hawthorne.



The play is winding down and #70 takes a shot at the head of an unassuming Hawthorne.

Obviously, I do not condone JB's actions at all as they were both inappropriate and immensely stupid. This is just a counter argument to those that are talking about the premeditated aspect to it. It was clearly retaliation to some of what had been going on during that game. Irresponsible and uncalled for, but still reactionary.
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Old Oct 2, 2011, 12:58 PM   #75
weasel88
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Just to add to this. I was watching from the stands the play before and noticed a gigantic hold on one of NU's runs against JB. As I watched a replay I zoomed to that play. Lo and behold, it was #70 (Ward) with the hold. But this was no "friendly" hold.

The play is winding down and #70 takes a shot at the head of an unassuming Hawthorne.

Obviously, I do not condone JB's actions at all as they were both inappropriate and immensely stupid. This is just a counter argument to those that are talking about the premeditated aspect to it. It was clearly retaliation to some of what had been going on during that game. Irresponsible and uncalled for, but still reactionary.
When he did it it was not in reaction to any event immediately prior, it was retaliation for something that occurred earlier--therefore, premeditated. He was looking for his chance and found it. I don't find any justification whatsoever for this behavior and hopefully Zook, Koenning, & co. will not either.
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