Michigan 71, Illinois 58 POSTGAME

Shenanigans · Feb 24, 2013, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lstewart53x3

I don't think we've seen you on here since the last loss.

I believe I speak for everyone, when I say: we're glad to have you back.

LOL

You are full of crap. I have a life and don't post 30 times a day.

Dan · Feb 24, 2013, 01:32 PM

Video: John Groce Michigan postgame presser

DaytonIllini · Feb 24, 2013, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmore

That must mean you are scared of every opponent that we face, right? Moving along...

A person would have to lack neurons if they follow Illinois and are not afraid of every team we play. You NEVER know what team will show up. Anyone that thinks we WILL lose must have overlooked the last few weeks. But anyone that says we shouldn't worry about it must have had a lobotomy after these same players were blown off their home court by Northwestern a month ago.

This team is as Jeckyl and Hyde as you'll get.

Personally though, nobody should have expected a win today. They are better than we are. We played on their home court. There were a few worrisome signs but you're going to see that when you play a top team on the road. I think we win against Nebraska but I sure wouldn't bet the mortgage money.

illini ri0t · Feb 24, 2013, 01:33 PM

Burke is a big timer. Michigan's going to miss him after he's gone.

dabirds · Feb 24, 2013, 01:33 PM

0 Fga in the 2nd half?? IMO that's more frustrating than him gunning. He's our go to scorer(best scorer), w/o it we won't beat the good teams. Solid 10 pts on 8 Fga, ends the game with 10 pts on 8 shots. When he's playing loose, his O is great, and he's getting DJ, TA, and other open shots. Seems like he is afraid to shoot, or takeover, because any ? shot or play Groce is quick to pull him.

For the tournament were going to need a loose playing Paul or it's going to be a 1 n done.

Now rip away

lstewart53x3 · Feb 24, 2013, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illini2016

The people who criticize negative fans as being fairweather are ridiculous. I am probably included in the "negative" group and it is not because I don't care about the team. In fact, it is because we care about the team so much that we want them to achieve their best. The team has clear talent and could have beaten Michigan today and we just want to see them perform up to their talent-level. This program is not going to get back to elite level by sitting back and saying, "Well we didn't expect to beat the best teams anyway." We have to beat the best teams to BE one of them some day. Keep it critical, Illini fans, as long as it is constructive.

Of course we want to be elite.

But you can't take a team that went 17-15 last year, then lost its best player for this year, and all of a sudden say: lets be elite. If we lose to a top 5 team on the road, we suck.

lstewart53x3 · Feb 24, 2013, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shenanigans

You are full of crap. I have a life and don't post 30 times a day.

I average 2 posts a day. Thanks for your insight, though.

Can we expect a few more gems of yours next time we lose?

Lovethechief78 · Feb 24, 2013, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChicagoIllini

Agreed. We will be fine.

Yes, it IS frustrating because this was a HUGE game that was right there for the taking.That being said, I'm not going to stop believin'; I was AT the Indiana game. Some people on this board need a little Vitamin V.

GO ILLINI!!!!

Proud of the way the seniors, YES, the seniors have turned this season around.. show them some Illini love for a change.

Shenanigans · Feb 24, 2013, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lstewart53x3

Of course we want to be elite.

But you can't take a team that went 17-15 last year, then lost its best player for this year, and all of a sudden say: lets be elite. If we lose to a top 5 team on the road, we suck.

Nobody said that we suck! People arent making these concerns up! Are we at a point now where we can't point out a legitimate concern for our own team without being assaulted?

Shenanigans · Feb 24, 2013, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lstewart53x3

I average 2 posts a day. Thanks for your insight, though.

Can we expect a few more gems of yours next time we lose?

Go back and check the post game threads.

Illini Sports · Feb 24, 2013, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lstewart53x3

Of course we want to be elite.

But you can't take a team that went 17-15 last year, then lost its best player for this year, and all of a sudden say: lets be elite. If we lose to a top 5 team on the road, we suck.

This is the definition of putting words in someone else's mouth. Go through this thread and find me one example of someone saying "we suck". You have a handful of people saying they're worried about the Nebraska game and a whole lot of people attacking them. And then you build it to a fever pitch by claiming people are saying "we suck". It's so disingenuous it makes me want to stop posting here.

pizzaman · Feb 24, 2013, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaytonIllini

This team is as Jeckyl and Hyde as you'll get.

That plus a fragile psyche. Its tough to buy into this team and its also tough to give up on them. It would not surprise me to see them make it to the elite 8 or lose by 15 in the first round.

bootsy · Feb 24, 2013, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illini2016

The people who criticize negative fans as being fairweather are ridiculous. I am probably included in the "negative" group and it is not because I don't care about the team. In fact, it is because we care about the team so much that we want them to achieve their best. The team has clear talent and could have beaten Michigan today and we just want to see them perform up to their talent-level. This program is not going to get back to elite level by sitting back and saying, "Well we didn't expect to beat the best teams anyway." We have to beat the best teams to BE one of them some day. Keep it critical, Illini fans, as long as it is constructive.

First we did perform up to their talent level. We led at the half and were still in this game with 7.5 minutes to go. You need to stop overrating our talent level. We are talented but we aren't as talented as Michigan. You also need to realize that being critical of the team is one thing but not using realistic expectations is another. Michigan hasn't lost at home this season and they are a top 10 team. So yeah we are saying 'well we didn't expect to best the them anyway'. We didn't expect it. That's just be honest and real with yourself. It would have been nice to win but it doesn't always work out that way.

Second we have been beating the best teams. We've beaten 4 of the top 25 teams this season which is more than most teams can say this season. We weren't expected to be very good this year, we missed the tournament last year and have missed it a lot lately. Right now we are on the brink of making it so there is again being realistically critical is one thing but to be negative about everything and not being honest with yourself about this team is entirely different. Seems to me you fall in the 'negative about everything and not being honest with yourself about this team' category which in my opinion isn't a good category to be in.

mdkIllini15 · Feb 24, 2013, 01:40 PM

We lost to a top 10 team? On the road? When they haven't lost at home all year? And the might have the poy on their team? Well that's it, game over. Curtains for Illini Basketball. Not only this year, but for the next 6 at least.

Shenanigans · Feb 24, 2013, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pizzaman

That plus a fragile psyche. Its tough to buy into this team and its also tough to give up on them. It would not surprise me to see them make it to the elite 8 or lose by 15 in the first round.

Exactly

danielb927 · Feb 24, 2013, 01:40 PM

Well, all I'm saying is I'm not worried. I don't think a grind-y win against PSU and loss at UM are reasons to be worried about a last-year style collapse that isn't even possible given we only have 3 games left. Before those two games, we blew the crap out of Northwestern in their gym. Even if I was worried, I'd do my best to stop myself and just enjoy the ride. Life's too short to legitimately worry about the things you can't control

Illini2016 · Feb 24, 2013, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lstewart53x3

Of course we want to be elite.

But you can't take a team that went 17-15 last year, then lost its best player for this year, and all of a sudden say: lets be elite. If we lose to a top 5 team on the road, we suck.

It isn't about being elite this year. It is about being elite in the future, and if we want to do that we have to keep improving. Like I said above, we had the talent to beat UM today, no doubt in my mind. The fact that we did not shows that we are not going out there and playing up to our talent level, and that is unacceptable if we are going to rebuild this program.

ILLINISTU · Feb 24, 2013, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illini Sports

This is the definition of putting words in someone else's mouth. Go through this thread and find me one example of someone saying "we suck". You have a handful of people saying they're worried about the Nebraska game and a whole lot of people attaching them. And then you build it to a fever pitch by claiming people are saying k"we suck". It's so disingenuous it makes me want to stop posting here.

Happens all the time on here, part of the fun.

plooger · Feb 24, 2013, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleedsorangenblue

It is human nature to comment on the negative. The positive often gets taken for granted. People are critical because they care. Not trying to excuse them or myself but a loss like this has a lot to be critical about. We can be a better team than we were today. That is the frustrating aspect and why people are critical.

Plus... as one of the announcers noted... the Illini have made a recent name for themselves in the end-of-season collapse department. Seems it's almost expected.

cmore · Feb 24, 2013, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illini Sports

This is the definition of putting words in someone else's mouth. Go through this thread and find me one example of someone saying "we suck". You have a handful of people saying they're worried about the Nebraska game and a whole lot of people attacking them. And then you build it to a fever pitch by claiming people are saying "we suck". It's so disingenuous it makes me want to stop posting here.

Well shenanigans stated that he thought that we would lose to Nebraska and Iowa. You quoted him and basically agreed. To me, that would suck.

.

freebird6 · Feb 24, 2013, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smallrock98

OMG, did we just give them the win or what? I mean they are up by double digits with 3 minutes to go...oh let's just let them dribble the ball at half court, no need to guard him, let them tick time away. You don't start full court pressing with only a minute and a half to go! You don't start fouling them with a minute to go! That should have started with 3 minutes to go at least! I blame Groce for that one. It's not that we lossed that really irks me, it's how we lossed. We gave up, didn't even try, and just handed it to them. Yes, I am mucking pissed!

wow''

that is great.

After that 8-0 run there was no way to get back in that game. These are not kids that play the game with passion, bounce or enthusiasm. They are talented but they are not the guys with fire in the Belly like Groce.

Just chill. THis was a predictable loss and Groce will take this extra time to get the troops as motivated as he can. They will be in the tourney.....and more importantly so will the fanbase.

Groce said the history is not on him and he is doing what he can to take the monkey off the players backs. In the end they are who they are. An amalgam of Weber's recruiting and criticism with an outer layer of polish put there by Groce. Whether he can shine them up (aka polishing the turd) and get them in shape for a tourney run is all on how many of those seniors find it in their true character to step up and make it happen. Down the stretch that is what will matter. Talent is there, Groce is used to working with high character guys and having then buy into his plans. It remains to be seen if these guys will step up or if their colors run...

Any ay you cut it, this rebuilding year is better than the pundits and quite honestly , most fans, thought it would be.

Prairie Spirit · Feb 24, 2013, 01:42 PM

I said to the family before start of game: Ok, come on; it's game time. Time to watch Illinois say, "We could beat Michigan if we wanted to, but we don't, so we won't." And that's what happened.

I disagree with those uncritical fans who are saying, "we weren't supposed to win this game and we didn't"; that should NEVER be an acceptable attitude. We should have gone into EVERY game with the attitude of "we WILL win. We CAN win" I think we SHOULD be ashamed of the way we played in this game, second half at least. All these guys who have been playing basketball all of their lives, who are on scholarships because they can play basketball, get onto these basketball courts every single day and still can't do the thing that makes basketball 'basket -ball": put the ball into the basket. Over and over and over.

Then to hear the TV talkers say - and show on video - some of Brandon Paul's bad plays and DJ Richardson's virtual zero points and inadequate playing and on and on - it's just too much. I never care if we lose IF WE PLAY WITH HEART AND ENERGY AND WILL; I do care very much that we play stupidly, poorly and that we so often look pathetic. Play with nobility, with honor, with heart, with EFFORT, with BRAINS, and please somebody: give these players watches and somehow make them realize that these games are longer than one half (or less)! Just shameful, disgusting, awful. Why should amazing wins (Indiana) make them any more worthy of tournaments than amazing losses make them unworthy? Right now, I'm feeling pretty bitter about them and feel that they do not deserve to be in any tournament but who cares when we can't even win in regular season. Tournaments are where the champions emerge but we have already shown repeatedly that we are not champions; not because we lose but because we lose like losers!

Illinois makes it SO hard to root for them when they just make your belly ache watching them play so badly - and then occasionally play so well so that you know they CAN play well; they just DON'T - and that's worse than just being a flat-out bad team! They are a very strange team, no consistency, no identity, no heart, no nobility. Where was DJ?? What in the H happens to Brandon Paul? What is the PROBLEM with those guys? And Griffey? Geesh.
If it was a matter of being fearful of and intimidated by Michigan,why didn't that apply with Indiana? We CAN beat the "good" teams; we just don't - and that's really shameful! Are we so arrogant? Afraid? What IS IT with this team? Michigan COULD have been beaten today and by Illinois, but Illinois "decided" not to do it. Shameful. I'm so tired of Illinois giving glimmers of hope and joy and fun, then pulling that happy rug right out from under Illinois basketball followers, and their fellow team players, some of whom DO show heart and drive; they just can't overcome the Paul-Griffey-DJ crazy unreliability. Yes, I am one who does blame Weber for at least some of the problems, for not re-educating these former high school "stars" into becoming legitimate basketball players and for beating down their spirits, but at this point in their college b'ball lives, THEY need to be self-educating and re-trained into their best b'ball selves - and they're not. I suspect Brandon Paul and Tyler Griffey got shunted into basketball at very young ages and that maybe they don't have the "basketball heart" that the greats really have, but they were good enough in their younger years to get college scholarships - and that was it. I feel for them because maybe they, too, are confused by their inconsistent play and their lack of "heart" for it, but I will never understand Brandon Paul's playing and wish he could explain to everybody what in the world happens with him from one game to the next. Same with DJ and Griffey. No other team I can think of has players that do this from game to game. Somebody must have the answer to this, but it's too late for this team. I hope no up-coming team member models themselves after any of those guys.

Ransom Stoddard · Feb 24, 2013, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shenanigans

Go back and check the post game threads.

I just did. You had 4 following the IU win. 2 weeks ago.

Interestingly, I found this in the Wisky postgame thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shenanigans

Just make the tournament. Beat the teams you are supposed to from here on out and they should be fine. 1-2, world isn't over, but man this loss causes concern. We will see what kind of coach Groce is trying to get this team back on track. Hopefully we see lineup changes, send a message.

Now that we're back to beating the teams we should beat (and losing to the cream of the B1G, you're concerned.

bleedsorangenblue · Feb 24, 2013, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dabirds

0 Fga in the 2nd half?? IMO that's more frustrating than him gunning. He's our go to scorer(best scorer), w/o it we won't beat the good teams. Solid 10 pts on 8 Fga, ends the game with 10 pts on 8 shots. When he's playing loose, his O is great, and he's getting DJ, TA, and other open shots. Seems like he is afraid to shoot, or takeover, because any ? shot or play Groce is quick to pull him.

For the tournament were going to need a loose playing Paul or it's going to be a 1 n done.

Now rip away

No sense to ripping him. He is what he is and we have to go as he goes. I hope he can pull himself together and trust in the team concept. If he doesn't, I won't be surprised.

lstewart53x3 · Feb 24, 2013, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shenanigans

Nobody said that we suck! People arent making these concerns up! Are we at a point now where we can't point out a legitimate concern for our own team without being assaulted?

This Illinois team is who it is.

Love it, hate it, whatever.

We've known who this team is for the last 3 years:

Incredibly talented, who can flat out beat any team in the nation. Incredibly inconsistent and borderline unfocused, who can flat out lose to any team in the nation.

Ragging on them is old and pointless.

Next year, we'll have a completely different team. This year is almost over.

Appreciate the time we have Brandon and DJ and Tyler because they're only going to put on the O&B for another 7 or 8 times, barring a tourney run, and you'll never see them play basketball again.

You're probably happy about that, but I'm going to support them these last few weeks no matter what, period.

Feb 24, 2013, 01:32 PM	#152
Dan Admin Location: Champaign, IL Posts: 25,905	Video: John Groce Michigan postgame presser Last edited by Dan; Feb 24, 2013 at 01:36 PM.

Feb 24, 2013, 01:33 PM	#154
illini ri0t Location: Traverse City, MI Posts: 480	Burke is a big timer. Michigan's going to miss him after he's gone. __________________ "Bleeding Orange and Blue since I was 10! WHAT!" ~Me.

Feb 24, 2013, 01:33 PM	#155
dabirds Posts: 24	Brandon Paul 0 Fga in the 2nd half?? IMO that's more frustrating than him gunning. He's our go to scorer(best scorer), w/o it we won't beat the good teams. Solid 10 pts on 8 Fga, ends the game with 10 pts on 8 shots. When he's playing loose, his O is great, and he's getting DJ, TA, and other open shots. Seems like he is afraid to shoot, or takeover, because any ? shot or play Groce is quick to pull him. For the tournament were going to need a loose playing Paul or it's going to be a 1 n done. Now rip away

Feb 24, 2013, 01:40 PM	#166
danielb927 Orange Krush Class of 2013 Location: Champaign, IL Posts: 3,739	Well, all I'm saying is I'm not worried. I don't think a grind-y win against PSU and loss at UM are reasons to be worried about a last-year style collapse that isn't even possible given we only have 3 games left. Before those two games, we blew the crap out of Northwestern in their gym. Even if I was worried, I'd do my best to stop myself and just enjoy the ride. Life's too short to legitimately worry about the things you can't control __________________ Illini Pride President 2012-2013 Orange Krush Class of 2013! - Orange Krush Road Trip @ Iowa, Feb. 3, 2010 The views expressed in these posts are solely individual and do not represent the views of any student organizations.

Feb 24, 2013, 01:42 PM	#172
Prairie Spirit Posts: 353	Self fulfillment prophecy I said to the family before start of game: Ok, come on; it's game time. Time to watch Illinois say, "We could beat Michigan if we wanted to, but we don't, so we won't." And that's what happened. I disagree with those uncritical fans who are saying, "we weren't supposed to win this game and we didn't"; that should NEVER be an acceptable attitude. We should have gone into EVERY game with the attitude of "we WILL win. We CAN win" I think we SHOULD be ashamed of the way we played in this game, second half at least. All these guys who have been playing basketball all of their lives, who are on scholarships because they can play basketball, get onto these basketball courts every single day and still can't do the thing that makes basketball 'basket -ball": put the ball into the basket. Over and over and over. Then to hear the TV talkers say - and show on video - some of Brandon Paul's bad plays and DJ Richardson's virtual zero points and inadequate playing and on and on - it's just too much. I never care if we lose IF WE PLAY WITH HEART AND ENERGY AND WILL; I do care very much that we play stupidly, poorly and that we so often look pathetic. Play with nobility, with honor, with heart, with EFFORT, with BRAINS, and please somebody: give these players watches and somehow make them realize that these games are longer than one half (or less)! Just shameful, disgusting, awful. Why should amazing wins (Indiana) make them any more worthy of tournaments than amazing losses make them unworthy? Right now, I'm feeling pretty bitter about them and feel that they do not deserve to be in any tournament but who cares when we can't even win in regular season. Tournaments are where the champions emerge but we have already shown repeatedly that we are not champions; not because we lose but because we lose like losers! Illinois makes it SO hard to root for them when they just make your belly ache watching them play so badly - and then occasionally play so well so that you know they CAN play well; they just DON'T - and that's worse than just being a flat-out bad team! They are a very strange team, no consistency, no identity, no heart, no nobility. Where was DJ?? What in the H happens to Brandon Paul? What is the PROBLEM with those guys? And Griffey? Geesh. If it was a matter of being fearful of and intimidated by Michigan,why didn't that apply with Indiana? We CAN beat the "good" teams; we just don't - and that's really shameful! Are we so arrogant? Afraid? What IS IT with this team? Michigan COULD have been beaten today and by Illinois, but Illinois "decided" not to do it. Shameful. I'm so tired of Illinois giving glimmers of hope and joy and fun, then pulling that happy rug right out from under Illinois basketball followers, and their fellow team players, some of whom DO show heart and drive; they just can't overcome the Paul-Griffey-DJ crazy unreliability. Yes, I am one who does blame Weber for at least some of the problems, for not re-educating these former high school "stars" into becoming legitimate basketball players and for beating down their spirits, but at this point in their college b'ball lives, THEY need to be self-educating and re-trained into their best b'ball selves - and they're not. I suspect Brandon Paul and Tyler Griffey got shunted into basketball at very young ages and that maybe they don't have the "basketball heart" that the greats really have, but they were good enough in their younger years to get college scholarships - and that was it. I feel for them because maybe they, too, are confused by their inconsistent play and their lack of "heart" for it, but I will never understand Brandon Paul's playing and wish he could explain to everybody what in the world happens with him from one game to the next. Same with DJ and Griffey. No other team I can think of has players that do this from game to game. Somebody must have the answer to this, but it's too late for this team. I hope no up-coming team member models themselves after any of those guys.

Feb 24, 2013, 01:40 PM	#164
mdkIllini15 Posts: 45	We lost to a top 10 team? On the road? When they haven't lost at home all year? And the might have the poy on their team? Well that's it, game over. Curtains for Illini Basketball. Not only this year, but for the next 6 at least.