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Old Oct 29, 2012, 08:14 AM   #1
Dan
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Togetherness: a pack mentality



During the game, assistant coach Dustin Ford seemed to be making the substitutions. "Nnanna, go get Sam" he said at one point. "Ibby, sit next to me" he said later, prior to Djimde entering the game.

After the game, Ford explained the process. It's the head coach who makes the call, but the assistants prep the players for entering game situations. Thus, Groce can maintain a moment-by-moment vigil over ongoing events. Togetherness includes delegation of responsibilities.

Rob McColley
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 08:35 AM   #2
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 08:51 AM   #3
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Don't know who Dan Hanner is, but he doesn't mind showing predictions that disagree with the sages of college basketball. Here is his predicted Big Ten conference result. Interesting, if nothing else. The numbers in front of each team are their national power ranking, for want of a better term (he probably has one, I just didn't especially look for it)

1 Indiana 14 4
5 Michigan St. 13 5
8 Ohio St. 13 5
23 Minnesota 11 7
33 Wisconsin 10 8
44 Michigan 9 9
54 Illinois 9 9
64 Iowa 7 11
73 Purdue 7 11
88 Penn St. 6 12
102 Northwestern 6 12
151 Nebraska 3 15

My apologies if the spacing doesn't exactly work out.
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 08:52 AM   #4
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I appreciate McColley's notes. His writing has improved immensely.
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 09:02 AM   #5
WesterveltVictoryCigar
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Originally Posted by FeelYourPaign View Post
Don't know who Dan Hanner is, but he doesn't mind showing predictions that disagree with the sages of college basketball.
Another note - for those expecting an easy win over USC in Maui, he has them 9 spots ahead of us.
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 09:05 AM   #6
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Well, it's an improvement. No, I am not talking about the Illini under Coach Groce in this case, but Rob Mc's attempts to be a sports writer.

A few things. First, get yourself out of the story. The reader should be drawn entirely to what you are writing about, not to the person doing the writing. In fairness to Rob, he is not the only journalist (or debate moderator) who hasn't fully grasped this point.

Second, get your facts right. This quote from the article, for example:
"It's refreshing to know that while John Groce may be guided by old-school paradigms, he's not hidebound. Playing Myke Henry at the four, and adding Rayvonte Rice to the roster (perhaps also as an "undersized" power forward) were simply not considerations for the previous regime." Uh, Roger Powell says "Hello!". The Rev was extremely successful as an undersized power forward under the previous staff.

Third, let go of the agendas. Don't try to push the interviewee (players in this case) into making a particular statement about what you think they should say. Let them say what they have to say. Leading questions are no more appropriate in a college sports interview than in a courtroom. It makes the interviewee defensive and uncomfortable, which is exactly the opposite of what you should be doing.

Finally, let the potty mouth stuff go. You are not a tough guy, and there is nothing wrong with that. Using the big boy bad words is not only unnecessary, it is jarringly out of place in this article. The guy you are saluting, Paul Klee, doesn't do that in print or on the air, and neither should you.

My last comment is that this is overall probably the best article I have seen from Rob. Hopefully, he too will break out from under the BW spell and come live in the now!
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 09:08 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by FeelYourPaign View Post
Don't know who Dan Hanner is, but he doesn't mind showing predictions that disagree with the sages of college basketball. Here is his predicted Big Ten conference result. Interesting, if nothing else. The numbers in front of each team are their national power ranking, for want of a better term (he probably has one, I just didn't especially look for it)

1 Indiana 14 4
5 Michigan St. 13 5
8 Ohio St. 13 5
23 Minnesota 11 7
33 Wisconsin 10 8
44 Michigan 9 9
54 Illinois 9 9
64 Iowa 7 11
73 Purdue 7 11
88 Penn St. 6 12
102 Northwestern 6 12
151 Nebraska 3 15

My apologies if the spacing doesn't exactly work out.
Coach Groce has said over and over again that spacing is critical. Either work on this or expect to get butt splinters!

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Old Oct 29, 2012, 09:19 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Illini70math View Post
Second, get your facts right. This quote from the article, for example:
"It's refreshing to know that while John Groce may be guided by old-school paradigms, he's not hidebound. Playing Myke Henry at the four, and adding Rayvonte Rice to the roster (perhaps also as an "undersized" power forward) were simply not considerations for the previous regime." Uh, Roger Powell says "Hello!". The Rev was extremely successful as an undersized power forward under the previous staff.
And the previous staff both projected Henry as a possible four before he arrived on campus and played him at the four last year both in practices and games.

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Old Oct 29, 2012, 11:40 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Illini70math View Post
Well, it's an improvement. No, I am not talking about the Illini under Coach Groce in this case, but Rob Mc's attempts to be a sports writer.

A few things. First, get yourself out of the story. The reader should be drawn entirely to what you are writing about, not to the person doing the writing. In fairness to Rob, he is not the only journalist (or debate moderator) who hasn't fully grasped this point.

Second, get your facts right. This quote from the article, for example:
"It's refreshing to know that while John Groce may be guided by old-school paradigms, he's not hidebound. Playing Myke Henry at the four, and adding Rayvonte Rice to the roster (perhaps also as an "undersized" power forward) were simply not considerations for the previous regime." Uh, Roger Powell says "Hello!". The Rev was extremely successful as an undersized power forward under the previous staff.

Third, let go of the agendas. Don't try to push the interviewee (players in this case) into making a particular statement about what you think they should say. Let them say what they have to say. Leading questions are no more appropriate in a college sports interview than in a courtroom. It makes the interviewee defensive and uncomfortable, which is exactly the opposite of what you should be doing.

Finally, let the potty mouth stuff go. You are not a tough guy, and there is nothing wrong with that. Using the big boy bad words is not only unnecessary, it is jarringly out of place in this article. The guy you are saluting, Paul Klee, doesn't do that in print or on the air, and neither should you.

My last comment is that this is overall probably the best article I have seen from Rob. Hopefully, he too will break out from under the BW spell and come live in the now!
Yeah, I was reading the article and enjoying it for the most part, and then came the m-f'r word. Oooooh....so daring of the writer. Yes, I agree, the appearance of the bad boy word is jarringly out of place and makes this writer appear to be a novice trying too hard to be daring and cutting edge.
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 11:55 AM   #10
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Nice to see what IMO is a realistic view of Michigan, though I could see them winning 10, possibly 11. Minnesota? Not buying them at 11-7 at all.

9-9 sounds about right to me. I don't think we do any worse than 7-2 at home and we will be able to beat a couple of the bad teams on the road.

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Old Oct 29, 2012, 12:12 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by ComplementaryColors View Post
Yeah, I was reading the article and enjoying it for the most part, and then came the m-f'r word.
I'm from the older generation who grew up with the notion that such language was not used in mixed company and certainly never written. Culture changes. You hear it and see it so much that it is no longer shocking. (Did you ever watch the TV show Deadwood?)

Personally, I try to avoid the cussing and swearing because it's simply not necessary to express myself and some people are offended. I think a good writer should be capable of using other words and phrases to communicate thoughts and feelings.
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 12:54 PM   #12
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NOTE - National ranking of #54 - probably out of the big dance..... However - maybe a couple of wins in the B1G tourney would allow us to play ourselves into the big dance!
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 01:06 PM   #13
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if the Illini miss the tourney this year...I can understand it. This is a very good Big 10 conference this year and we are probably right now in the mid-bottom half (anywhere from 6-9). Do we have the potential to be better than that? Absolutely. But to me, this year is about implementing the offense...showcasing it...and then getting the recruits in who can run it.

If we miss the NCAA Tourney...I do think the Illini are a threat in the NIT tournament (which some fans will see as a failure but they are all fans of "he who shall not be named")

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Old Oct 29, 2012, 01:39 PM   #14
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And the previous staff both projected Henry as a possible four before he arrived on campus and played him at the four last year both in practices and games.
BW also said that Henry and Bertrand couldn't be on the floor at the same time because they played the same position. :rolleyes:

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Old Oct 29, 2012, 02:37 PM   #15
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Another note - for those expecting an easy win over USC in Maui, he has them 9 spots ahead of us.
Not expecting an easy win, just a plain old regular win.
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 02:39 PM   #16
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NOTE - National ranking of #54 - probably out of the big dance..... However - maybe a couple of wins in the B1G tourney would allow us to play ourselves into the big dance!
IMO, barring a horrible non-conf record, 9-9 in a loaded B1G gets us in the Dance with one B1G tourney win.
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 03:21 PM   #17
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I was just going on the fact that there are something like 31 auto bids (some would be from higher conferences). It seems that the 14's, 15's, and 16's (at a minimum) are from the lower conferences and therefore, be ranked below #54. It would definitely be BUBBLE area.
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Old Oct 29, 2012, 04:32 PM   #18
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BW also said that Henry and Bertrand couldn't be on the floor at the same time because they played the same position. :rolleyes:
Yep, they both played the four last year. Why the rolleyes?

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Old Oct 29, 2012, 08:03 PM   #19
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NOTE - National ranking of #54 - probably out of the big dance.....
Then we'll just have to overachieve, won't we?

Doesn't seem like it happens too often for us, but every season's start is a wealth of optimism regardless.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 07:59 AM   #20
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Yep, they both played the four last year. Why the rolleyes?
The :rolleyes: was about what I perceived as close-mindedness and poor personnel assessment and management by BW.
Since the 4-man operated mainly on the perimeter last season, I would have considered both the 3 and 4 as the wings within a largely interchangeable offense.
In the same sense that JB was a 4, BP was a 3.
Really though, regardless of the number assigned, JB played SF and BP played SG.
To say that MH and JB couldn't both be on the floor at the same time was absurd.
They both have different skill sets and strengths.
They seem to mesh well together under Groce, which seems to shoot down BW's theory.

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Old Oct 30, 2012, 08:40 AM   #21
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The :rolleyes: was about what I perceived as close-mindedness and poor personnel assessment and management by BW.
Since the 4-man operated mainly on the perimeter last season, I would have considered both the 3 and 4 as the wings within a largely interchangeable offense.
In the same sense that JB was a 4, BP was a 3.
Really though, regardless of the number assigned, JB played SF and BP played SG.
To say that MH and JB couldn't both be on the floor at the same time was absurd.
They both have different skill sets and strengths.
They seem to mesh well together under Groce, which seems to shoot down BW's theory.
The problem was that Henry wasn't very effective as a 4 last year because he needed to mature a bit, learn to play hard defense and rebound. This might come as a shock to you, but a LOT of freshmen aren't ready to play college basketball. On the flip side, we really needed Bertrand at the 4 because we really didn't have effective play at that position. And when Bertrand did play the SF position last year (contrary to your diatribe, he played quite a bit at the 3 later in the season) he wasn't as effective offensively. Hopefully his outside shot has improved enough this year that he can keep defenses honest.

To say Weber wasn't flexible is nonsense. He tried Bertrand at PG, SF and PF; Richmond played SF and PF; McCamey played SG and PG. etc...

I really don't think we need to find ways to criticize Weber with every new development this year. It gets really old. Instead, let's just observe what Groce is doing and keep our fingers crossed that he finds some way to squeeze out a better record than we had last year. It won't be easy.

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Old Oct 30, 2012, 08:49 AM   #22
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To say Weber wasn't flexible is nonsense. He tried Bertrand at PG, SF and PF; Richmond played SF and PF; McCamey played SG and PG. etc...

I really don't think we need to find ways to criticize Weber with every new development this year. It gets really old. Instead, let's just observe what Groce is doing and keep our fingers crossed that he finds some way to squeeze out a better record than we had last year. It won't be easy.
^^^
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 12:15 PM   #23
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9-9 sounds about right to me. I don't think we do any worse than 7-2 at home and we will be able to beat a couple of the bad teams on the road.
Not sure I agree with this. We play Ohio State, Wisconsin, Indiana, and Michigan at home. I can easily see us losing 3 of those and possibly all 4. We could def do worse than 7-2 at home.

I think we still go 9-9 though. Home wins vs. Minny, NW, Purdue, PSU, and Nebraska coupled with road wins at Purdue, Nebraska, NW, and Iowa.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 12:32 PM   #24
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Not sure I agree with this. We play Ohio State, Wisconsin, Indiana, and Michigan at home. I can easily see us losing 3 of those and possibly all 4. We could def do worse than 7-2 at home.

I think we still go 9-9 though. Home wins vs. Minny, NW, Purdue, PSU, and Nebraska coupled with road wins at Purdue, Nebraska, NW, and Iowa.
HIGHLY doubt that we will get a road win at Purdue...they may have lost Hummel and Jackson, but they will return Byrd and Terone Johnson, who can score in a variety of ways from all over the court, and they will be adding a vastly underrated point guard in Ronnie Johnson and a center who has been exceeding all expectations in conditioning and practice in Hammons...who is a legit 7' and 250lbs. Toss in returnees Anthony Johnson, Jacob Lawson, Travis Carroll, another freshman stud in Davis, and with Painters hardnosed style and ability to get players to play aggressive and hard all of the time, Purdue will be a handful either place.
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Old Oct 30, 2012, 12:33 PM   #25
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Ah, but Wisconsin is without their starting PG now. Their standing in the conference could fall considerably with that development.

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