Coaching Carousel (Basketball)

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#277      
DeonThomas
Fun fact from ESPN today (perhaps already mentioned here earlier):

Amazingly, only 7 active coaches in the NCAA have won the national championship in basketball. Kentucky has its fingerprints all over 4 of them. And you would think that perhaps four of those same seven may be contemplating retirement over the next five years. It certainly is a short list, and sort of makes you appreciate Underwood even more.

* Bill Self
* Scott Drew
* Tony Bennett
* Rick Pitino
* John Calipari
* Tom Izzo
* Dan Hurley
 
#278      
Ramrod2010
LvilleILL said:
he's an ego maniac. him and the Kentucky fanbase are a match made in heaven
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Was going to say something similar.

I can see Hurley concocting narratives in his head that in order to be truly revered he needs to show he can do what he's done at multiple stops.
 
#279      
Illini2010-11
ChiefGritty said:
It's not that un-Groce-like of a resume.

I'd rather have Pat Kelsey I think.
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The biggest difference is that Golden has two full seasons of coaching in the SEC, in addition to 3 seasons in the WCC. While Groce had a longer coaching history (when including years as an assistant), and 4 years as head coach in MAC, I believe that two seasons in the SEC trumps Groce's resume (pre-Illinois) by a fairly significant margin (especially if you were interested in infusing youth into the program).
 
#280      
splitter
Illini2010-11 said:
Try Again Jimmy Fallon GIF by The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon


The FO is not changing. Great news would be a change to the ownership group.
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Great news would be a change in ownership of both of JR's franchises.
 
#281      
ChiefGritty
Illini2010-11 said:
The biggest difference is that Golden has two full seasons of coaching in the SEC, in addition to 3 seasons in the WCC. While Groce had a longer coaching history (when including years as an assistant), and 4 years as head coach in MAC, I believe that two seasons in the SEC trumps Groce's resume (pre-Illinois) by a fairly significant margin (especially if you were interested in infusing youth into the program).
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He's claimed a few big scalps in proper major conference basketball at Florida, that's something Groce didn't have (though he did have a couple of big tourney upsets over good teams).

But he went 23-22 in three years in the WCC, 0-8 against Gonzaga and St. Mary's including WCCT. And now 20-16 at a perfectly fine Florida situation, that's no ground-up rebuild.

What I want to see in a coaching resume is sustained dominance over your peers, plus ideally some genuine excellence on a substantive basketball level.

Golden has neither.
 
#282      
illini510
We also have to remember that if Ball somehow makes it back on the court for next season, that Bulls roster and bench depth looks a lot more better than it did even when this roster was constructed a few yrs ago. Donovan might want one more year with this group with a healthy LaVine, healthier Ball, and more improved White/Dosunmu
 
#284      
ptgrd23
Todd Golden may be a great young coach but he has never won a NCAA tournament game. Not even close to accomplished enough take over a blue blood like KY

1712867550784.png


Next in line to turn KY down..
--Nate Oates (already publically stated he is staying at Bama, 49 years old)
--Rick Pitino (NCAA champion, multiple final 4's, KY legend., actually would probably say yes but he is 71 years old)
-- Tommy Lloyd (has 2 sweet 16's in 3 years at AZ, 49 years old)
-- TJ Otzenburger (defense first style, two sweet 16's at ISU in 3 years, 46 years old )
-- Brad (one elite 8 in 7 years, 60 years old)
-- Sean Miller ( 5 elite 8s, 3 sweet 16s. 55 years old)


www.courier-journal.com

With Scott Drew off board, 6 Kentucky basketball coaching candidates for Cats to consider

With Baylor's Scott Drew reportedly passing on the Kentucky basketball job, here are six Kentucky coaching candidates who could succeed John Calipari.
www.courier-journal.com
 
#285      
I57north
Fighter of the Nightman said:
FWIW, these were the 25 highest paid coaches before the carousel took off, at least per USA Today. I'm using the "Total Pay" column.

1. Bill Self (Kansas): $9.7 million
2. John Calipari (Kentucky): $8.5 million
3. Tom Izzo (Michigan State): $6.2 million
4. Bruce Pearl (Auburn): $5.7 million
5. Rick Barnes (Tennessee): $5.7 million
6. Scott Drew (Baylor): $5.1 million
7. Dan Hurley (UConn): $5.0 million
8. Brad Underwood (Illinois): $4.7 million
9. Kelvin Sampson (Houston): $4.6 million
10. Nate Oats (Alabama): $4.5 million
11. Buzz Williams (Texas A&M): $4.5 million
12. Eric Musselman (Arkansas): $4.2 million
13. Mike Woodson (Indiana): $4.2 million
14. Mick Cronin (UCLA): $4.1 million
15. Tommy Lloyd (Arizona): $4.1 million
16. Tony Bennett (Virginia): $4.0 million
17. Dennis Gates (Missouri): $4.0 million
18. Dana Altman (Oregon): $4.0 million
19. Kevin Willard (Maryland): $4.0 million
20. Jamie Dixon (TCU): $3.8 million
21. Andy Enfield (USC): $3.8 million
22. Greg Gard (Wisconsin): $3.8 million
23. Juwan Howard (Michigan): $3.8 million
24. Matt Painter (Purdue): $3.7 million
25. Jeff Capel (Pitt): $3.6 million

Notes on some new hires:
- There were rumors that Kentucky offered Dan Hurly $11 million per year, which would easily be #1 in the nation ... that's nuts if true.
- John Calipari (Arkansas) will start at $7 million, which would be good for #3 on that list.
- Dusty May (Michigan) will start $3.6 million, which would be good for barely top 25.
- I cannot find a number for Eric Musselman (USC), but I doubt he took a pay cut below $4.2 million (#12 on the list).
- I also cannot find a number for Andy Enfield (SMU), but it looks like he made above $4.5 million at USC? USC doesn't release this type of data.

So...

I guess the question is, if it got to this point, how much would Kentucky offer Brad? And how high could we go to match? I highly doubt Brad gets the Hurly offer ... but does he get an offer of $6 million or more? That seems highly likely. Looking back, it looks like we gave him a 12% raise compared to what his previous contract would have had him making in 2024. Another 12% would put him in the $5.3 million. You'd think we'd be more than willing to get up to $6 million ... the question is how far we can battle up into $7 million and above.

Assuming Brad is happy enough at a job like Illinois with elite compensation, it becomes a really interesting question of where the "middle point" with Kentucky would be where (A) they wouldn't want to go much higher for Underwood and (B) Illinois could match.
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How much is enough? It seems that at a certain age where health becomes a consideration surely someone can live on 2- 5 million dollars. Underwood is in a situation I think where he has the AD's ear. He is protected from himself (mostly). I have heard him say something about high blood pressure which at age 60 he is susceptible to. He has lost weight, but is 2 million dollars when you do not really need it worth a heart attack? So Underwood has shown progress in a place that is not too much pressure relatively speaking. Perhaps he just needs to recruit those big men like Painter does.
 
#286      
Illini2010-11
ChiefGritty said:
He's claimed a few big scalps in proper major conference basketball at Florida, that's something Groce didn't have (though he did have a couple of big tourney upsets over good teams).

But he went 23-22 in three years in the WCC, 0-8 against Gonzaga and St. Mary's including WCCT. And now 20-16 at a perfectly fine Florida situation, that's no ground-up rebuild.

What I want to see in a coaching resume is sustained dominance over your peers, plus ideally some genuine excellence on a substantive basketball level.

Golden has neither.
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This is completely your judgment call on his coaching abilities and what you would want in a coach, and that is fine. I am not necessarily suggesting Kentucky should hire Golden, but I also do not think it would be the worst choice either.

However, claiming that Golden's resume is similar to that of Groce's when Illinois hired him, is my extreme issue. Having two full seasons coaching in a major conference is the key differentiator. That is experience that John Groce did not have coming into Illinois, and it showed through recruiting. For that reason, IMO, Golden and Groce should not be used in the same sentence when comparing resumes.
 
#289      
RockfordIllini
I57north said:
How much is enough? It seems that at a certain age where health becomes a consideration surely someone can live on 2- 5 million dollars. Underwood is in a situation I think where he has the AD's ear. He is protected from himself (mostly). I have heard him say something about high blood pressure which at age 60 he is susceptible to. He has lost weight, but is 2 million dollars when you do not really need it worth a heart attack? So Underwood has shown progress in a place that is not too much pressure relatively speaking. Perhaps he just needs to recruit those big men like Painter does.
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Also, at this point I’m sure Underwood has a big ole house that’s paid for. After that you can’t spend the type of money he makes in Champaign. Sure he’s built a very nice nest egg that continues to compound etc.

Not saying Lexington is Manhattan (the real one, not Kansas), but if Brad sticks it out here until he retires he will likely have more money that he can spend and will leave nice chunks to each of his kids. Not sure you need any more money than that.
 
#291      
Perry Range's Van
Illini2010-11 said:
The statement doesn't bother me in the slightest. Baylor is a private Christian university, so the spin is appropriate in my opinion. We are not the target audience.
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This!. My daughter toured there during their annual big recruitment day. I thought I knew what Baylor was but that day really opened my eyes. Then they showed me the tuition $ and off to a state school we went.
 
#292      
grue2
Fighter of the Nightman said:
...

Notes on some new hires:
- There were rumors that Kentucky offered Dan Hurly $11 million per year, which would easily be #1 in the nation ... that's nuts if true.
- John Calipari (Arkansas) will start at $7 million, which would be good for #3 on that list.
- Dusty May (Michigan) will start $3.6 million, which would be good for barely top 25.
- I cannot find a number for Eric Musselman (USC), but I doubt he took a pay cut below $4.2 million (#12 on the list).
- I also cannot find a number for Andy Enfield (SMU), but it looks like he made above $4.5 million at USC? USC doesn't release this type of data.
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Enfield got 3.8M in 2022 according to USC tax forms. (How these make it to the web, I do not know.)

If Musselman was making 4.2M at AK, he'll need to get at least 5M at USC to balance the tax difference from AK to CA (state income, property). Houses near USC aren't as pricey as I expected: $1.5-3M (3M is a nicely finished 3500-4000sqft house).
 
#293      
ChiefGritty
Illini2010-11 said:
However, claiming that Golden's resume is similar to that of Groce's when Illinois hired him, is my extreme issue. Having two full seasons coaching in a major conference is the key differentiator.
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Sure, if those two seasons are good.

Golden’s record through two seasons at Florida is almost exactly the same as Groce’s through two seasons at Illinois. And Golden did less at USF than Groce did at Ohio.

I acknowledge that Golden not faceplanting at Florida is an important analytical point. But then Groce didn’t either.

I click on a guy’s Wikipedia page and want to know first and foremost, conference record and has this guy had a really great team.

For 2012 Groce and 2024 Golden it’s “meh” and “no”.

Go look at Pat Kelsey’s page.
 
#294      
OrangeBlue98
Illini2010-11 said:
This is completely your judgment call on his coaching abilities and what you would want in a coach, and that is fine. I am not necessarily suggesting Kentucky should hire Golden, but I also do not think it would be the worst choice either.

However, claiming that Golden's resume is similar to that of Groce's when Illinois hired him, is my extreme issue. Having two full seasons coaching in a major conference is the key differentiator. That is experience that John Groce did not have coming into Illinois, and it showed through recruiting. For that reason, IMO, Golden and Groce should not be used in the same sentence when comparing resumes.
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I do agree with your point about Groce vs Golden. If Illinois had to search for a new coach tomorrow (hope that doesn’t happen!!), Golden would be a bit of a reach/“not quite ready” option. I think he could grow into the role like Josh Whitman has grown into the AD role, but it wouldn’t be my ideal first choice.

Now 2-3 years from now with progression building on this year at Florida? He’d absolutely be worth a look if Underwood retired in that time frame.
 
#295      
Mobi
ChiefGritty said:
Sure, if those two seasons are good.

Golden’s record through two seasons at Florida is almost exactly the same as Groce’s through two seasons at Illinois. And Golden did less at USF than Groce did at Ohio.

I acknowledge that Golden not faceplanting at Florida is an important analytical point. But then Groce didn’t either.

I click on a guy’s Wikipedia page and want to know first and foremost, conference record and has this guy had a really great team.

For 2012 Groce and 2024 Golden it’s “meh” and “no”.

Go look at Pat Kelsey’s page.
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We will see probably have a riot here if we hire Golden.
 
#297      
Illini4Chief
Cant see BU takin Kentucky.....60 years old....can't see KU selecting anyone with just a few years of coaching left.....I would think they would be more interested in longer term coach, program builder,etc.
 
#299      
Boskydell
Indy Illini Fan said:
UK has the most delusional fans on the planet ... I also never trusted Mitch to get his top target when Cal eventually left or was fired ...

Lot of coaches are not big fans of that dude ...

Mitch and Brad would probably not get along ... And that MATTERS ...

People can talk about facilities, NIL and all this other stuff ... Brad's relationship with Josh is the MOST important thing that we have to offer ...

Coaches win games ... Administration wins championships ... PERIOD ... 💯

View attachment 33510
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To paraphrase the late, "great " Jerry Krause.
 
#300      
and 69 others
DeonThomas said:
Yep. Ditto for me. Apologies to those under 35, but the NBA has absolutely been transformed into a totally crappy and unwatchable league.

Hot Take ---- I think it's time to expand the court 5 ft x 5 ft and increase the rim height 1" per year until we hit 10'6 in 2030. (Probably need to then increase it to 11'0 by 2035 or 2040. The current court dimensions were not intended for the superhumans playing the sport today.

As a more relatable analogy, I would suggest that the change we've seen in the NBA All-Star game over the past 50 years (into the product offered today) is a microcosm to what has transpired in the NBA's 82-game regular season over that same 50-year span. U-G-L-Y.
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You know what? Yes! I love this hot take. THAT would get me to check out the NBA instead of only watching Ayo.

And I am well under 35.
 
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