And everyone there loves him . . .
Former Illini in College Hoops
I didn't offer any definitions. That's your projecting and putting words into my mouth. There's a large gap between 'no rules' and rules that use the monopoly to restrict the athletes from earning from their labor. The courts have ruled emphatically on the distinction. So have many state legislatures.
The bolded part is incredibly faulty logic.
So, … what’s your definition of “monopoly” … and how do college sports fit into that?
The solution perhaps will be salaries paid by school foundations set up for the purpose to try to circumvent equal pay and public disclosure requirements. The biggest problem is contracts and getting value. We have this to some degree in the pros, but they have a much better idea of what players are worth when they sign them and rookies have restrictions that prevent too much nonsense.
The college players are unknown commodities plus younger and more susceptible to going astray in a number of ways. There are few players that schools are going to want to offer a 4 year contract to. Imagine the four year contract for Jereme Richmond.
Schools are probably going to want a collective bargaining agreement as it has the potential to add some sanity to the mess.
The college players are unknown commodities plus younger and more susceptible to going astray in a number of ways. There are few players that schools are going to want to offer a 4 year contract to. Imagine the four year contract for Jereme Richmond.
Schools are probably going to want a collective bargaining agreement as it has the potential to add some sanity to the mess.
Goillinikobd
- Southeastern US
Speaking of ‘Belo, did you see this?
13/6/6/2
Nice results for first game back
They play #25 Ole Miss on Saturday
Might be worth a look
Andre Curbelo scores 13 points off the bench in Southern Miss basketball debut vs. Lamar
Southern Miss basketball squeaked past Lamar in part with Andre Curbelo's impressive bench production (13 points, 6 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 steals).
www.hattiesburgamerican.com
13/6/6/2
Nice results for first game back
They play #25 Ole Miss on Saturday
Might be worth a look
Not trying to dodge the question, but there's already an enormous body of law on the subject. As with anything legal, there's a framework, but also debates on how to apply it, as well as the facts for any given dispute. I would summarize them as basically trying to measure the concentration of power and the harms from too much of it. The Herfindahl-Hirschman Index is an easy to understand measure if you're curious. A lot of the arguments on definitions come down to how you define a market, and I think that's key with college sports (and other sports leagues, btw). So while I think it's a great question, it's also very complex to try and come to an answer that people can agree on.
Of course, none of that really matters on a sports board --people have a gut reaction about the thing they care about. From what's been posted, it seems like there's a group that hates how college sports is changing and thinks the NCAA is the one to stop/protect it. Even if NCAA operates as a monopoly, they think that's better than letting athletes negotiate for themselves. There's another group that thinks the NCAA deserves the court losses, the state laws stopping them, and that change is better than the status quo. I'm mostly in that camp but hey, that's just my opinion.
Retro62
- North Bethesda, Maryland
Just what the hell is this? You answer someone questioning your post by giving a reasonable account of your stance? AND you provide them with a way to frame your original comment within a proper context? AND AND...you acknowledged that questioning your comment was a good call, providing no snide commentary in order to deride them for not accepting your position without comment?! I see no reason for you to stoop to this sort of de-escalation...you should think before you post.
Interesting stuff. Civilized discourse. What the hell is this, indeed!
Yes, it is interesting how markets are defined … especially in areas that are essentially entertainment, where no essential services or commodities are involved and where participants willingly volunteer to provide their services for legitimate compensation that is parsed out somewhat equally.
Not to defend the NCAA (or its member institutions), but would a market even exist without the brands, venues, etc., provided? Maybe a much diminished one.
Yes, it is interesting how markets are defined … especially in areas that are essentially entertainment, where no essential services or commodities are involved and where participants willingly volunteer to provide their services for legitimate compensation that is parsed out somewhat equally.
Not to defend the NCAA (or its member institutions), but would a market even exist without the brands, venues, etc., provided? Maybe a much diminished one.
illini80
- Forgottonia
Any solutions depend on being able to put the toothpaste back in the tube. I don’t see it happening with all the realignment strictly for financial gain. Hope I’m wrong, but I haven’t seen a thing that makes me optimistic aside from congressional legislation that would meet the courts approval. Have you seen congress lately? They can’t agree on anything and we are likely several years from them even taking it up.
In the meantime, we have rules about how NIL can’t be used for inducement and a one time transfer rule that have gone up in flames. At this point I can’t even get upset about it. It just is what it is. I hope we can figure out a way to use it to our advantage.
In the meantime, we have rules about how NIL can’t be used for inducement and a one time transfer rule that have gone up in flames. At this point I can’t even get upset about it. It just is what it is. I hope we can figure out a way to use it to our advantage.
So very well written. Kudos!
Apparently Kwame Raoul(D), the Illinois Attorney General, is also involved in the case. The West Virginia attorney general (R) who is leading the case is also running for Governor--so certainly some interesting politics here. The restraining order stays in place until the trial is completed. The trial isn't supposed to occur until at least mid-June; the end of all spring NCAA sports. With 6+ months of free-for-all the toothpaste will certainly all be gone from the tube.
Look you guys, I’ll always love Belo. For the Michigan and Iowa games alone.
Bill_Cole_SuperFan
The Insider's Insider
- Ubben Laundry Room
I don't know what you guys are talking about/ too many words to read.
All I care about is how Edgar Padilla is doing. Please let me know if you know anything of his where abouts.
All I care about is how Edgar Padilla is doing. Please let me know if you know anything of his where abouts.
Did Jalen Coleman Lands get another year of eligibility?
At what point does he just start over a a freshman?Two more years...
Among the things that bug me the most about arguments in favor of limiting player compensation is this one -- namely, that teams should be guaranteed some return on their investment, and if they make an investment that fails, it's never the team's fault and always that of the player. I don't know why it's become accepted that any entity that makes an investment, whether we're talking about buying securities or real estate, making capital improvements to their own property, hiring a person through a negotiated contract for some set period of time, or anything else should not be subject to the risks associated with the return.
The price for retaining a player's services is not and should not be equal to the value that player provides. It should be the price that the market will bear, as borne out by what someone actually winds up paying them. If labor costs threaten the viability of the NCAA, those costs will be moderated over time because the market will no longer be able to support them. I'm not concerned about the league folding over this. There's more than enough working capital to keep it afloat for a couple of years while the market calibrates to the new normal.
There are so many things in sports being framed as for the good of the game that are really just mechanisms to control the cost of labor. Some people think that's a great idea, and some people think it's exploitative. And it's pretty obvious where the dividing lines are, just like everything else in this world.
Wow. Where to start?
When I talk about getting value it means getting performance that is on a par with what other people are doing at the price you're paying. So I'm perfectly fine with the market setting the rate.
I'm also perfectly fine with the risks. Nothing I said suggests otherwise. Who ever said anything about a "guarantee "? I don't think it's unreasonable to try to mitigate those risks. It happens all the time in real life and certainly in the three major sports leagues. Contracts themselves serve to mitigate risks for both parties. I don't think I actually have talked to a real person that has view on risk that you stated. I'm sure it's out there but not common.
Like you I'm not worried about things folding. I am worried about an unregulated market favoring a few schools. We shall see.
Didn't mean to misinterpret what you had written, and apologies if I did. But reading this:
The biggest problem is contracts and getting value. We have this to some degree in the pros, but they have a much better idea of what players are worth when they sign them and rookies have restrictions that prevent too much nonsense.
...I'm not sure how else to read it other than to say that players should be paid less because the value they provide is not known (or is less certain). And again, I don't think I agree with the frame that such restrictions are needed to maintain competitive balance. I don't think there's a ton of evidence showing that salary caps or below-market club control for younger players achieves that if it's truly the goal.
I didn't say they should be paid less. But it's hard to determine the true value of a player the less data you have. High school players have the least data. There are far more mistakes made drafting rookies than in signing 5 year vets. Once again, more data.
This is a problem. I'm not saying it needs to be addressed with regulations. It's one GMs are dealing with. Coaches and ADs now will deal with it. Some will be better than others. Hopefully IU will bring Isiah Thomas back.
Of course collective bargaining could address some of this.
College basketball Jeporady .......College Hoops for $800 please......most undergrad mens college basketball degrees.....answer is ......Who is Jalen C Lands
OK, it's still unclear to me as to why the players should be paid less because the teams can't figure out what they're worth. Anyway, we're never going to close the gap on this, so why not talk about something we can agree on: isn't this picture of puppies in a bucket cute?
I literally started off my last post with "I didn't say they should be paid less." I said that because it's true and I because I don't believe it. Why is that so hard for you to understand? The gap seems to be that you seem to be reading something into my post that isn't there and refuse to actually read and understand the words that are there.
Bret will find a way to disagree with the puppies too, just wait.