Illini Basketball 2023-2024

Generally speaking, I don't prefer the brand of basketball that "leaves the onus on the official." I think if the offensive player initiates contact, it should be a no call or an offensive foul.

I'd much prefer the ball be moved to make gaps appear in the defense. Or a skilled ball handler be able to break down his defender which creates a collapsing defense which opens up shooters.

LoveIlliniHoops said:

The one thing you might be missing is how fast he is moving. This isn’t a guy driving the lane at an average pace. He’s flying down the lane, so fast, that the defender can’t adjust in a timely manner. TSJ is a freak, in this regard. That’s why they say they don’t know what you’re supposed to do there. It happens so fast that it’s almost humanly impossible to react that fast. JMO

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No, I absolutely agree with that statement. He is an outlier due to the tools at his disposal. I used him as an example because he is excellent at drawing the contact because of his attributes. I started to use Edey as the example because I figured I'd get more support for my argument, but that's not really what I'm after. Different players, same results.

Your well-reasoned response is what I'm after. Thank you.

LoveIlliniHoops said:

The one thing you might be missing is how fast he is moving. This isn’t a guy driving the lane at an average pace. He’s flying down the lane, so fast, that the defender can’t adjust in a timely manner. TSJ is a freak, in this regard. That’s why they say they don’t know what you’re supposed to do there. It happens so fast that it’s almost humanly impossible to react that fast. JMO

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He sometimes gets some very friendly NBA-style whistles from minor contact, but it's astonishing how rarely he puts himself at real risk of a charge. 6'6", 225 barreling down the lane at a dead sprint and he has a ballerina's grace to slip between defenders, and the body control to finish. He's like a Pokemon evolution of John Wall.

PattyOBryant said:

This may be an unpopular opinion but I trust the fine folks here to disagree with me with valid points that tells me why I might be seeing this wrong.

I love TSJ. Not in some creepy old man kind of way (though I haven't given that much thought and times are changing). I love watching him play basketball. I love the competitiveness he brings and the joy he seems to get from the game.

That being said (to keep my "Illini Fan Card"), the brand of basketball of bullying your way in to contact with a defensive (defenseless in most cases) player is not good for the game. I get upset any time I see a player jump in to one of ours to get a foul called. Outside of his tremendous 3 point shooting ability, Shannon has made a heck of a lot of points driving hard into defending players.

I have no idea how this can be balanced out. I have no idea what the defender is actually supposed to do there. The intention of the player on offense is to initiate the contact. The defender is screwed. There is no defense, short of taking a charge, and those calls are so scrutinized that it's hard to get ("well his left foot was moving just a little bit when contact was made there.")

I, 100% support playing the game within the framework of the rules as they exist today but it's something I hope they take a look at at some point in the future for the sake of some balance.

Extra thought: I think it's possible you might see an aggressive offensive player being called for fouls outside of those aggressive moves that allow the officials to balance the game a bit. I get a sense that has happened a bit in the last few games.

Anyways, just a thought I had this morning while waiting patiently for the Illini to take down Morehead (wut?)

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I have less heartburn with this than the banging they are letting bigs on offense do down low to displace a defender. I have visions of Scott May of North Carolina doing that to James Augustine in '05, all the up through today to see Eddy do it against Hawkins. And those weren't the most egregious examples. Crowl from Wisconsin gets away with a lot of that. Understand the physicality of it (as an undersized 6'4" forward - a loooong time ago), but I'd like to see that change a little bit back towards giving the defender some credit.

PattyOBryant said:

This may be an unpopular opinion but I trust the fine folks here to disagree with me with valid points that tells me why I might be seeing this wrong.

I love TSJ. Not in some creepy old man kind of way (though I haven't given that much thought and times are changing). I love watching him play basketball. I love the competitiveness he brings and the joy he seems to get from the game.

That being said (to keep my "Illini Fan Card"), the brand of basketball of bullying your way in to contact with a defensive (defenseless in most cases) player is not good for the game. I get upset any time I see a player jump in to one of ours to get a foul called. Outside of his tremendous 3 point shooting ability, Shannon has made a heck of a lot of points driving hard into defending players.

I have no idea how this can be balanced out. I have no idea what the defender is actually supposed to do there. The intention of the player on offense is to initiate the contact. The defender is screwed. There is no defense, short of taking a charge, and those calls are so scrutinized that it's hard to get ("well his left foot was moving just a little bit when contact was made there.")

I, 100% support playing the game within the framework of the rules as they exist today but it's something I hope they take a look at at some point in the future for the sake of some balance.

Extra thought: I think it's possible you might see an aggressive offensive player being called for fouls outside of those aggressive moves that allow the officials to balance the game a bit. I get a sense that has happened a bit in the last few games.

Anyways, just a thought I had this morning while waiting patiently for the Illini to take down Morehead (wut?)

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I was just wondering… There has been some talk here in some thread or other about how Edey may not get such favorable calls in the NCAA tournament due to getting other non-B1G referees (or something like that). I think it was that he and others like him would not be able to get away with the things he does under the basket. So, again, I was wondering, may the same thing happen to Shannon in regards to the above post concerning how Shannon barrels through opposing players on his way to the basket. In other words, will Shannon be more likely to get called for offensive fouls in this situation? I didn't phrase this particularly well, but I think you can understand my convoluted writing.

Guest said:

I was just wondering… There has been some talk here in some thread or other about how Edey may not get such favorable calls in the NCAA tournament due to getting other non-B1G referees (or something like that). I think it was that he and others like him would not be able to get away with the things he does under the basket. So, again, I was wondering, may the same thing happen to Shannon in regards to the above post concerning how Shannon barrels through opposing players on his way to the basket. In other words, will Shannon be more likely to get called for offensive fouls in this situation? I didn't phrase this particularly well, but I think you can understand my convoluted writing.

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TSJ is basically a cheat code. He’s so explosive and with his euro step it’s basically impossible to get square up in front of him.

Since we are all (presumably) waiting for Thursday, I thought I would post some useless information that may kill some time until then.

Here's a rundown on the Illini's non-conference schedule, the teams the Illini played, and what happened to them this season.
Kansas: B12 10-8 (tied for 5th place) 21-8 overall; Lost in the 1st round of B12 Tournament
Eastern Illinois: Ohio Valley 8-10 (7th place) 14-18 overall; Lost in the 1st round of OVC Tournament
Oakland: Horizon League 15-5 (1st place) 23-11 overall; Won Horizon League Tournament
Marquette: Big East 14-6 (tied for 2nd place) 25-9 overall; lost in finals of Big East Tournament
Valparaiso: Missouri Valley 3-17 (last place) 7-25 overall; Lost in the 1st round MVC Tournament
Southern Univ: Southwestern Athletic 12-6 (tied for 3rd place) 18-14 overall; Lost in the quarterfinals of the SWAC Tournament
Western Illinois: Ohio Valley 13-5 (4th place) 21-12 overall; Lost in semi-finals in OVC Tournament
FAU: American Athletic Conf. 14-4 (2nd place) 25-8 overall; Lost in the semi-finals of AAC Tournament
Tennessee: SEC 14-4 (1st place) 24-8 overall; Lost in the quarterfinals SEC Tournament
Colgate: Patriot League 16-2 (1st place) 25-9 overall; Won Patriot League Tournament
Missouri: SEC 0-18 (last place) 8-24 overall; Lost in the 1st round of the SEC Tournament
FDU: Northeast Conf. 9-7 (tied for 4th place) 15-17 overall; Lost in quarterfinals of NEC Tournament

Other teams that may be of interest:
Akron: Mid-American 13-5 (tied for 2nd place) 24-10 overall; dropped last two games to drop out of 1st place; won Mid-American Tournament
Georgetown: Big East 2-18 9-23 next to last place (10th); Lost in the 1st round of Big East Tournament
DePaul: Big East 0-20 3-29 last place (11th); Lost in the 2nd round of Big East Tournament
Louisville: ACC 3-17 8-23 last place Lost in 1st round of ACC
Georgia: SEC 6-12 17-16 11th (tied) Lost in the 2nd round of SEC Tournament
Grand Canyon: Western Athletic 17-3 29-4 1st; won WAC Tournament

I included Georgetown, Georgia, and Louisville because of former Illini players Epps. RJ, and Clark. But for a more complete list of former Illini players see Illinigirl's post #601 in the "Former Illini in College Hoops" thread

telling:

Joel Goodson said:

telling:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1770090667815190657

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Doesn't hurt we are on the same channel as Selection Sunday show.......just sayin'.

Joel Goodson said:

telling:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1770090667815190657

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Yeah, there were a couple of complaints about the timing of the BTT final, hard disagree from me, it's a wonderful showpiece for the conference.

It will be interesting to see if Caitlin Clark can carry this level of mainstream stardom over to the WNBA. She's a female Red Grange in a certain way.

Astonishing how far the women's game has come in such a short time. It's the same lesson as Magic and Bird elevating the NBA really, the whole American entertainment industry runs on stardom, and the game of basketball is a great platform for a star.

ChiefGritty said:

He sometimes gets some very friendly NBA-style whistles from minor contact, but it's astonishing how rarely he puts himself at real risk of a charge. 6'6", 225 barreling down the lane at a dead sprint and he has a ballerina's grace to slip between defenders, and the body control to finish. He's like a Pokemon evolution of John Wall.

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I think that's the biggest improvement from last year, his ability to slow down (and sometimes not even that) and change directions to avoid those charges, which leaves defenders out of options

goillini30 said:

I think that's the biggest improvement from last year, his ability to slow down (and sometimes not even that) and change directions to avoid those charges, which leaves defenders out of options

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Yup. He's also distributing better than he has in the past.

He is a DRAMATICALLY better and more complete offensive player than he was at Texas Tech. Adding skills that usually don't emerge at his age. A triumph of player development.

Incidentally, a new mock draft on The Athletic this morning (paywall).


TSJ does not appear (Coleman doesn't either fwiw), but the author addressed it in the comments below:

Sam Vecenie
· 2h 16m ago

@Jerry D. Shannon has a rape charge against him in Kansas and we need answers on that before he will be listed here again. Totally open-minded on putting him back on the board once we get more information if that information clears him. But I find it difficult to believe that an NBA team would take him currently given that charge.

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That's where I've always been on it too. But on a pure basketball level I am really intrigued about where TSJ stacks up against the other talent in this class.

ChiefGritty said:

That's where I've always been on it too. But on a pure basketball level I am really intrigued about where TSJ stacks up against the other talent in this class.

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Assuming everything is cleared up by the draft, he's a first round talent even with his age in this draft

ChiefGritty said:

Yup. He's also distributing better than he has in the past.

He is a DRAMATICALLY better and more complete offensive player than he was at Texas Tech. Adding skills that usually don't emerge at his age. A triumph of player development.

Incidentally, a new mock draft on The Athletic this morning (paywall).

NBA Mock Draft: Zaccharie Risacher still No. 1; NCAA tourney offers chance to impress

As focus shifts to the NCAA Tournament, this year's draft board continues to be among the most volatile in recent memory.

theathletic.com

TSJ does not appear (Coleman doesn't either fwiw), but the author addressed it in the comments below:


That's where I've always been on it too. But on a pure basketball level I am really intrigued about where TSJ stacks up against the other talent in this class.

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TSJ number 12 & CH #48 in the newest Bleacher mock draft.

LvilleILL said:

Assuming everything is cleared up by the draft, he's a first round talent even with his age in this draft

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I have zero doubt of that. I'm wondering if he might be a top 10 pick in this weak draft. You look at the late lottery, and guys like Dalton Knecht and Donovan Clingan are extraordinary college players, but are they better NBA fits than TSJ? Not for me. (Fair and important point to mention his age though)

I just pray we get to test the hypothesis.

illini0440 said:

Went to Unity high school in Tolono, his father Rod was the head Athletic trainer then head of Alumni relations for some 45+ years here….didn’t recruit him and he went Purdue and tore it up.

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Didn't recruit him because he made it very clear he did not want to play at Illinois he wanted to grow up and get away from Dad. Wanted to be close to home but not be where he had grown up. At the time I got it, did the same thing moved away after high school thanks to USAF

If I were an NBA GM, and things were not resolved, I would draft him in the 2nd, if available. No guarantees and a lot of 2nd rounders never make it. I know it may not look good, but when he is exonerated, as I believe will happen, it would be a bargain.

women's bball is DEFINITELY being pushed hard with advertising. I feel like it will go 1 of 2 ways.

1 - The push will work and it will gain a foothold and continue to draw more ad $$$ and sell tickets.

or 2 - eventually the people spending the money on the push will not see a return on their investment and it will dwindle back to where it was.

My money is on #2, just purely based on the revenue (or lack of) from other women's sports (soccer, hockey, wnba, etc)

Guest said:

I was just wondering… There has been some talk here in some thread or other about how Edey may not get such favorable calls in the NCAA tournament due to getting other non-B1G referees (or something like that). I think it was that he and others like him would not be able to get away with the things he does under the basket. So, again, I was wondering, may the same thing happen to Shannon in regards to the above post concerning how Shannon barrels through opposing players on his way to the basket. In other words, will Shannon be more likely to get called for offensive fouls in this situation? I didn't phrase this particularly well, but I think you can understand my convoluted writing.

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It's a concern of mine for sure. The instinct seems to be sometimes for the players to take bad shots when anticipating the contact so they can get to the stripe. If the contact isn't called, all you've done is taken a bad shot.

Edit: I will have concerns until tip-off

chief_1104 said:

women's bball is DEFINITELY being pushed hard with advertising. I feel like it will go 1 of 2 ways.

1 - The push will work and it will gain a foothold and continue to draw more ad $$$ and sell tickets.

or 2 - eventually the people spending the money on the push will not see a return on their investment and it will dwindle back to where it was.

My money is on #2, just purely based on the revenue (or lack of) from other women's sports (soccer, hockey, wnba, etc)

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I have this discussion with SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed, aka The Woman Who Lets Me Live With Her or CINCFAM - Commander in Chief, Family). I follow the sports I love - men's college basketball, college and pro football, pro baseball, men & women's college hockey, men and women's college volleyball, and the Olympics. I don't follow soccer, X-games, lacrosse, women's basketball, softball, tennis, skiing, etc. (this list is longer than I thought . . .). I will spend my money on things that interest me because of my interest, and I would suggest the average fan likely does the same.

Until women start attending and supporting women's sports, they are not going to be commercially successful. HOWEVER, as women's sports are becoming more popular, I would suspect it is because a) more women today played sports when they were younger, and therefore will continue to be fans as they get older, spending to support their sports interests, and b) it is being pushed by the media for the reason that 50+% of their readers/viewers are female. The commercial success of women's sports will continue to be on an upwards trend only as long as "a" continues to be true.

TSJ Third Team All American

TJ 3rd team…