Illinois Hoops Recruiting Thread

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#152      

Keisersose

Keisersose
Keisersose
I’ll be surprised if Cam Christie pulls his name from the draft. Ecstatically surprised though.
 
#153      

PepeSilvia

P
PepeSilvia
ChiefGritty said:
That Youtube account does an amazing job cutting clips of the nine trillion guys in the portal and has been an invaluable resource
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Speaking of that. Who runs this YouTube account and manages to cut up highlight film of every single guy entering the portal?

Its honestly incredible and I assume it's gotta be linked up to some service but if it's just some random guys I can't imagine the time they put into it.
 
#154      

EyeoftheIllini

EyeoftheIllini
EyeoftheIllini
FightinIllini30 said:
Why? He just started nearly every game as a sophomore on a team that made the elite 8 at a position he doesn’t even play. Like I said, if I uttered that statement about a guy who played for UNC last year and wanted to portal over to Illinois- we’d all pencil him in as a starter
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Not at the 2. I like Ty, but don’t see him as a 2 at all.
 
#155      

champaignpak

champaignpak
champaignpak
Based on what DP is saying the team might fill two slots in Europe so a big man and a potentially Egor would be really really good and they're definitely focused there since OA, Brad and Geoff were there.
 
#156      

kleine

K
kleine
Travis1173 said:
David Jones entered the portal.

I can’t find it anywhere yet, but we filmed a commercial with Penny Hardaway this morning and it was overheard in the building.
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if true this goes against everything I've heard in the last 24 hours about how committed he is to Memphis
 
#157      

HensonHall71

H
HensonHall71
Keisersose said:
I’ll be surprised if Cam Christie pulls his name from the draft. Ecstatically surprised though.
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I don't know - he's a mid second round pick right now unless he can have a great showing in the draft process. He's 190 pounds and the worst finisher at the rim statistically of anyone in the draft. He would be a good example of getting with fletch for a year, get an NBA body and be a lottery pick next year
 
#158      

mhuml32

mhuml32
Cincinnati, OH
mhuml32
Ignoring the Illinois future involvement, Christie would be an idiot if he doesn't jump into this draft. There's been so much ink spilled on how bad this draft pool is, but it's somehow even worse if you need shooting. Christie might go incredibly high.
 
#160      

ChiefGritty

ChiefGritty
Chicago, IL
ChiefGritty
HensonHall71 said:
I don't know - he's a mid second round pick right now unless he can have a great showing in the draft process. He's 190 pounds and the worst finisher at the rim statistically of anyone in the draft. He would be a good example of getting with fletch for a year, get an NBA body and be a lottery pick next year
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The 15-50 range in draft projections in this draft are total chaos.

There will be a number of guys who solidify first round grades in the predraft workouts and process before the withdrawal deadline, and Christie is a guy who IMO is not wasting his time putting his focus in May trying to be one of them. Same with Hawkins.
 
#161      

biglug58

biglug58
Chicago, IL
biglug58

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#162      

ever

E
ever
Frank said:
Statistically, this is absolutely true, but I think we underestimate the value of players with a reliable midrange jumper. As the game tightens up and defenses key in on stopping shots at the rim and 3s, sometimes a good midrange shot is the best "clean" shot one can get. You see this happen in the NBA playoffs, where midrange aficionados become relatively more valuable when the games matter most (example). Domask was the guy generating our best offense against UConn (our only offense really), and his game is mostly pull up/step back/turnaround jumpers. Ayo made a killing for 3 years with a deadly midrange game; how many of his game winners/crunch time buckets were midrange shots? (don't have a number but it was a lot -- just watch his highlight videos)

All in all, you're right about the stats and there's a reason the game has trended towards the shot chart on the right, but I think people sometimes draw too straight a line from the stats to 'midrange = bad', while the most competitive basketball games still show us that it has a lot of value. To the larger point about Ty Rodgers shot, I agree that him developing a midrange likely doesn't change much, since he's never going to be automatic like Domask/Ayo were. Better to have 1-2 guys capable of being midrange assasins surrounded by true long-range shooters, much like our team build this year. If Ty could shoot even 28-30% from 3, he'd be a different player, but we don't even know what he'd shoot from distance since he doesn't even look at the basket. That, to me, is the biggest problem and I'm a bit skeptical that an offseason of heavy practice will alleviate that in-game mental barrier.
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One nit to pick is that for a potential game winning shot with time expiring, you don't care about points per shot. You care about likelihood of getting enough points to take the lead (with some value to tie the game).

Durant also draws some fouls on mid-range jumpers. That requires a decent shot value from that range or else the defender should just let you take the shot.

I don't have a strong opinion on Ty. He had a decent true shooting percentage because he was smart with his shot selection, and got tons of offensive rebounds, but it's certainly nice to have more shot versatility. One concern about him starting this year even though he was a helpful component of an elite-8 team is: if we don't win the bidding war for any player close to TSJ in overall value, our best option may be to get more from our 4th and 5th most valuable players.
 
#163      

Second place is 1st loser

S
Second place is 1st loser
ChiefGritty said:
I guess I just kinda don't understand the skepticism that our only returning starter (from a team where he was the only young player with a major role, and now he's not a young player anymore), would continue to be a starter.

If we end up with another 5 that can shoot, I guarantee you he starts.

The idea that he's getting pushed down the bench was predicated on a view of our portal prowess which alas has not survived contact with the real world.


The sweet spot is being able to credibly threaten the defense with midrange shots so they have to guard against that and can't overload against 3's and layups, while in fact taking as few of those shots as possible.

Domask started emphasizing his turnaround more later in the year, and TSJ started mixing in a few free throw line jumpers as teams threw bodies to the rim against him, but that stuff was a sparingly used counter, at least when our offense was playing well.

Tre White could have been a huge star in 2002 playing the way he does, but we don't want him doing that as a key cog in our offense, we want him to make teams guard him out to 3 and finish drives at the rim. He has those abilities, he just needs to refine and emphasize them. Rodgers is a more complex building project.
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It's a sweet spot, but how can anyone even begin to think that's remotely possible that this will develop one year after he refused to even look at the rim to shoot. How many shots did he take last year that weren't in the paint? Any 7 footers that he did take were more like one handed push shots to put it softly on the rim.

If he was taking 15-17 footers and just shooting a low percentage, that can just be a matter of putting up 500 shots a day. Him not shooting at all is between the ears and changing that is a whole different ballgame.
 
#168      

ChiefGritty

ChiefGritty
Chicago, IL
ChiefGritty
Second place is 1st loser said:
It's a sweet spot, but how can anyone even begin to think that's remotely possible that this will develop one year after he refused to even look at the rim to shoot. How many shots did he take last year that weren't in the paint? Any 7 footers that he did take were more like one handed push shots to put it softly on the rim.

If he was taking 15-17 footers and just shooting a low percentage, that can just be a matter of putting up 500 shots a day. Him not shooting at all is between the ears and changing that is a whole different ballgame.
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I broadly agree with your conclusion, just with maybe a bit less certainty.

Guys developing a jump shot is a thing that happens, and it wouldn't even have to be THAT good to really change what Ty is able to do on the floor.

I'm not counting on it though. Still, he brings major impactful strengths in other areas of the game.
 
#169      

Calvin

C
Calvin
Emerson Bigguns said:
Challenge accepted... You sure you were 100% on the Domask train?

View attachment 34440
If you are exhausted, take a break. It's basketball, It's not that serious.
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The problem with being opinionated on the internet is it's all recorded. Or maybe it's deep fakes....

Couple comments - One thing I think the staff has proven they are good at is figuring out how to make the pieces work. At least they proved it last year --the collective wisdom of the board had a lot of serious questions (as did many analysts), and yet the team was quite good.

Another comment, and I guess this could apply more to Cam or Storr, is how a player can flash a lot of potential on the offensive end, and has a really high perceived value. But I wonder if that's a trap. Take an extreme case of two players, one has a d-rating (and I know that's not a great stat, but assume for a moment it's a reasonable indicator of efficiency) of 95, and another has 105. The 105 player needs to be significantly more efficient to make up for defensive deficiencies, but does that get baked into the equation? Of course, guys develop and the trick is seeing what you can do over a season...

Final comment - the offseason is wilder than I imagined. This is a new era in big big way.
 
#170      

CoachHooleyHoo

CoachHooleyHoo
CoachHooleyHoo
LvilleILL said:
If you want me to "check the record", would you like to remember what you were saying last summer about our chances? Let's not go there. Tons of people in here last offseason acted like the world was ending and we weren't a lock to make the tournament because we missed on a point guard
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I certainly appreciate your enthusiasm & your reports are definitely on the optimistic side, which I appreciate. Having said that, a couple of points on your comment:

1) There was a ton of angst about the PG position and it certainly worked out, but you have to admit that the concern was justified.

2) Comparing last year's offseason to this one is apples & oranges b/c last year you had 2 known commodities: TSJ & CH. We could overcome a lot of deficiencies last year b/c we had the BEST wing in the country & a guy who could just do so many things & was a big-time culture guy. This year has way more unknowns which makes it much more difficult to assess.
 
#171      

HailtotheChief

H
HailtotheChief
I like and appreciate Ty but with that said I'm hoping that White or a new add will challenge or take Ty's role at any spot if he can't become a better scorer. We need all round players. White may not out rebound but he could do as well. White is very athletic and basically the same size as Ty but with much more offensive punch. Ty has a limited ceiling until he develops some type of offensive game outside a few feet where opponents will need to guard him it isn't a good thing if he can't. White or our additional transfers should do that if Ty cant. Ty will get his opportunity to improve and battle with White, Ben, and whoever else is added to the roster. Unfortunately, I am confident Ty has been working on his shot for years and its been reported as a major struggle. He has to even attempted a jump shot i recall in his time here and I dont expect him suddenly have a light go off and get a legit mid range game but others will have one right away.
 
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#173      

ChiefGritty

ChiefGritty
Chicago, IL
ChiefGritty
CoachHooleyHoo said:
I certainly appreciate your enthusiasm & your reports are definitely on the optimistic side, which I appreciate. Having said that, a couple of points on your comment:

1) There was a ton of angst about the PG position and it certainly worked out, but you have to admit that the concern was justified.

2) Comparing last year's offseason to this one is apples & oranges b/c last year you had 2 known commodities: TSJ & CH. We could overcome a lot of deficiencies last year b/c we had the BEST wing in the country & a guy who could just do so many things & was a big-time culture guy. This year has way more unknowns which makes it much more difficult to assess.
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Call it a self-serving take if you want, but I think it's the truth: to forgive or brush away the roster construction failures of last summer is to underrate the amazing coaching job of the following season. They go hand in hand.

BU recruited his way into a straightjacket and handcuffs at the bottom of a lake and coached his way out of it. An extraordinary performance of finding a way to make talented but ill-fitting pieces into a humming machine.

Let's make it easier this time!
 
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