2017 Coaching Carousel

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#1,526      

Serious Late

Serious Late
Peoria via Denver via Ann Arbor via Albuquerque vi
Serious Late
helppitch said:
Stevens & Donovan would not leave the NBA for Illinois. An awful lot of people on this board didn't want Stevens when Weber was let go. Of course, he wasn't interested in coming here anyway.
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This feels very much like revisionist history. I am sure you could quote a couple folks saying that, but my "remembering" of the coaching search involved a majority of posters of the opinion "yeah, okay... we believe that hire when we see it".

And yes, it goes without saying that neither Billy Donovan nor Brad Stevens are coming to Illinois. Buzz Williams isn't coming here, 2 NBA coaches certainly aren't.
 
#1,528      

Serious Late

Serious Late
Peoria via Denver via Ann Arbor via Albuquerque vi
Serious Late
Second and Chalmers said:
That's our guaranteed outcome.

For the record, I don't think losing in the first four is making the tournament. The NCAA tournament is a 64 team event that begins on Thursday. If you're not in the bracket, you're not in the tourney.
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Honestly, I am way off the "does bad NCAA Tournament Seed save John Groce's Job" discussion. To me, it all comes down to conference play. I would like to see 11 results in 18 opportunities that make me happy. Wins make me happy.

Argue whether NCAA bad seed vs. NIT good seed means anything, but our continued worst nightmare is any conference record between 8-10 and 10-8. Either 7-11 or 11-7 makes the decision on what to do with the head coach at Illinois moot. With 11-7, Illinois will make the NCAA Tournament, be off the bubble, and an extension is coming given the class Groce has coming in and the positive vibes. At 7-11, no one in the fanbase is reasonably arguing why we should keep Groce. Illinois will miss the NCAA Tournament again and the sample size is unquestionable against Groce's coaching abilities.

Anything 8-10 to 10-8. SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGH. Put me in the camp of "let's try our luck on the coaching carousel". But man, it doesn't feel good. There just isn't enough evidence after 5 years to suggest this is the path our program should try to continue down.

I also think that this could be the thing that saves Groce. If he moved on from Illinois and ultimately became very successful... I won't be surprised. That doesn't mean he was ever going to become successful AT Illinois, just that he learned from this experience and benefited from a fresh start in a new location.

#SayNoTo9And9 #WorstCaseScenario
 
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#1,530      

IlliniBacker

IlliniBacker
IlliniBacker
MakesNoSense said:
It's a nice job for someone looking to step up from a mid major while auditioning for a Top 20 school.
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That's just foolish.

I don't get the defeatist attitude that so many Illini fans have.

UI is historically a Top 25 program - you could argue Top 20 even.

The right coach with the stars aligned could turn the program into a perennial Top 10 team in 3 years. It's not a stretch for that to happen. UI has demonstrated some institutional commitment to winning with what they have allowed Whitman to do with the football program. I'm excited to see the same with basketball. It's much easier to pull off, but still will take a little luck. I just hope they aren't forced to tread water with Groce for another year. Not the answer.
 
#1,531      

WesterveltVictoryCigar

WesterveltVictoryCigar
WesterveltVictoryCigar
Serious Late said:
Honestly, I am way off the "does bad NCAA Tournament Seed save John Groce's Job" discussion. To me, it all comes down to conference play. I would like to see 11 results in 18 opportunities that make me happy. Wins make me happy.

Argue whether NCAA bad seed vs. NIT good seed means anything, but our continued worst nightmare is any conference record between 8-10 and 10-8. Either 7-11 or 11-7 makes the decision on what to do with the head coach at Illinois moot. With 11-7, Illinois will make the NCAA Tournament, be off the bubble, and an extension is coming given the class Groce has coming in and the positive vibes. At 7-11, no one in the fanbase is reasonably arguing why we should keep Groce. Illinois will miss the NCAA Tournament again and the sample size is unquestionable against Groce's coaching abilities.

Anything 8-10 to 10-8. SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGH. Put me in the camp of "let's try our luck on the coaching carousel". But man, it doesn't feel good. There just isn't enough evidence after 5 years to suggest this is the path our program should try to continue down.

I also think that this could be the thing that saves Groce. If he moved on from Illinois and ultimately became very successful... I won't be surprised. That doesn't mean he was ever going to become successful AT Illinois, just that he learned from this experience and benefited from a fresh start in a new location.

#SayNoTo9And9 #WorstCaseScenario
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Very good summary, I'm right with you and have been for a while, especially the line in bold.
 
#1,535      

illinoisportsfan

I
illinoisportsfan
UIUC1867 said:
Is it foolish? Ever hear of Bill Self? ;)
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Bill Self was from Oklahoma, played at Oklahoma State and was an assistant at Kansas. He was a die-hard Big-12 guy. Kansas was his dream job and is a top-5 program, historically.

Historically, Illinois is a top-15 program. With the right coach, it is potentially a top-10 program.
 
#1,536      

gibb52

G
gibb52
UIUC1867 said:
Is it foolish? Ever hear of Bill Self? ;)
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Ever hear of Kansas? That's a top 4 job, not a top 20 job.

If we do fire JG our next coach most likely comes from the MVC, MAC, OVC, SBC, et al.

If our AD has some insider info that someone in the NBA or a another major conference is unhappy for some reason and looking to make a move that's great, hence my tongue in cheek Donovan/Stevens suggestion. But the chances of that are remote at best.

We have the talent and experience to be better than we are. We don't have NC or FF talent, but we have 12-6 in the B1G and 6 seed talent, but the 4 guys sitting on our bench aren't helping.
 
#1,537      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
illinoisportsfan said:
Bill Self was from Oklahoma, played at Oklahoma State and was an assistant at Kansas. He was a die-hard Big-12 guy. Kansas was his dream job and is a top-5 program, historically.
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Self was offered a blank check - literally, "name your price", T. Boone can do that kind of thing - by his alma mater after he won the title in 2008 and he turned them down.

That conclusively resolved whether Self is just a charlatan motivated by money the way we all accused him of being when he left. It may assuage our pain to say so, but it ain't so.

It is a little amusing to call Self a "die hard Big 12 guy" considering the conference didn't exist until he was 32 years old and its original membership is now scattered all over the place.
 
#1,538      

gibb52

G
gibb52
Second and Chalmers said:
Self was offered a blank check - literally, "name your price", T. Boone can do that kind of thing - by his alma mater after he won the title in 2008 and he turned them down.

That conclusively resolved whether Self is just a charlatan motivated by money the way we all accused him of being when he left. It may assuage our pain to say so, but it ain't so.

It is a little amusing to call Self a "die hard Big 12 guy" considering the conference didn't exist until he was 32 years old and its original membership is now scattered all over the place.
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Big 8 when he played at OSU.

Self is smart enough to know that KU is a much better job than OSU and a few hundred thousand extra won't even things up.
 
#1,539      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
MakesNoSense said:
It's a nice job for someone looking to step up from a mid major while auditioning for a Top 20 school.
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I thought the Big Ten Geeks twitter account made an interesting point about this.

The last three Illini coaches ended up in the NBA, Kansas, and Kansas State. I would be surprised if Groce gets another Power Five job immediately (though I was flabbergasted when Weber got K-State so who knows) but I think certainly he would remain very employable if we let him go.

Illinois has good resources and high expectations. Even if you don't meet the expectations, you're still left with a decent-looking record at a major school and thus quality exit options. You're not likely to be Todd Lickliter and fall off the face of the earth.

I thought that was an interesting perspective.
 
#1,541      

gibb52

G
gibb52
Second and Chalmers said:
I thought the Big Ten Geeks twitter account made an interesting point about this.

The last three Illini coaches ended up in the NBA, Kansas, and Kansas State. I would be surprised if Groce gets another Power Five job immediately (though I was flabbergasted when Weber got K-State so who knows) but I think certainly he would remain very employable if we let him go.

Illinois has good resources and high expectations. Even if you don't meet the expectations, you're still left with a decent-looking record at a major school and thus quality exit options. You're not likely to be Todd Lickliter and fall off the face of the earth.

I thought that was an interesting perspective.
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It's possible he could fall back to a Bradley/Bowling Green type job with a chance to get back to a high major spot in 4-5 yrs if things went well.

Worst case scenario is as an asst as he was a pretty good one at OSU.
 
#1,542      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
illinoisportsfan said:
Kansas was his dream job and is a top-5 program, historically.

Historically, Illinois is a top-15 program. With the right coach, it is potentially a top-10 program.
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Unfortunately, the key is not that Kansas is "historically" a top-5 program, it is a top-5 program. Not just this season, not a top-5 team, a top-5 program in college basketball. We like to think of Illinois as "historically" a top-15 program for the reason that Illinois has become so irrelevant in college basketball for so long, that only our history from long time ago, which is irrelevant to today's recruits, will keep us afloat.

This is not about making a top-15 program into a top-10. And our difference from Kansas is not top 5 vs. top-15. It's worlds apart. Illinois is still a great opportunity IMO, for the right coach, someone who will cherish the opportunity to make Illinois a consistent top-25 program, but the potentially "top-10" program will not ring true to most coaches at this point. JMO.
 
#1,543      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
gibb52 said:
It's possible he could fall back to a Bradley/Bowling Green type job with a chance to get back to a high major spot in 4-5 yrs if things went well.

Worst case scenario is as an asst as he was a pretty good one at OSU.
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Bradley is better than Bowling Green and I'd imagine he could do even better than that. AAC schools love fired ex-Power Five guys because they don't get the opportunity to bolt for greener pastures after one good year.
 
#1,544      

MakesNoSense

M
MakesNoSense
IlliniBacker said:
That's just foolish.

I don't get the defeatist attitude that so many Illini fans have.

UI is historically a Top 25 program - you could argue Top 20 even.

The right coach with the stars aligned could turn the program into a perennial Top 10 team in 3 years. It's not a stretch for that to happen. UI has demonstrated some institutional commitment to winning with what they have allowed Whitman to do with the football program. I'm excited to see the same with basketball. It's much easier to pull off, but still will take a little luck. I just hope they aren't forced to tread water with Groce for another year. Not the answer.
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It is not foolish, it is realistic. I would love to get a up and coming coach come here and make Illinois a top 25 team and leave the program when its ascending. This would make the job more enticing to others. Illinois, at the moment, is not a destination job. It is not just this job. The Big as a whole is not that appealing. There is talk of going after Buzz at VaTech. I love him, but why would he leave VaTech and the ACC? He wouldn't, at least not yet.
 
#1,546      

UIUC1867

UIUC1867
Christian County, IL
UIUC1867
MakesNoSense said:
It is not foolish, it is realistic. I would love to get a up and coming coach come here and make Illinois a top 25 team and leave the program when its ascending. This would make the job more enticing to others. Illinois, at the moment, is not a destination job. It is not just this job. The Big as a whole is not that appealing. There is talk of going after Buzz at VaTech. I love him, but why would he leave VaTech and the ACC? He wouldn't, at least not yet.
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Sounds like the early 2000's, eh? . . . yet we ended up getting Weber. Thanks RG.

BTW, VaTech isn't a destination job either.
 
#1,549      

mhuml32

mhuml32
Cincinnati, OH
mhuml32
I haven't followed the college basketball scene closely in some time, but the UNC-Wilmington coach is one of the most interesting to me. Not sure how he would do in recruiting (which leads to a great question of how ADs can vet coaches at the lower ranks for recruiting prowess), but that would be my only concern with the job he has done so far.
 
#1,550      

DMan42

D
DMan42
mhuml32 said:
I haven't followed the college basketball scene closely in some time, but the UNC-Wilmington coach is one of the most interesting to me. Not sure how he would do in recruiting (which leads to a great question of how ADs can vet coaches at the lower ranks for recruiting prowess), but that would be my only concern with the job he has done so far.
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I had read that when he was hired there the take on him was that he was an excellent recruiter. Of course that was for Pitino at Louisville. Who knows how he would do in the BIG at his own program. But he is intriguing.

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