2020-2021 Team Makeup

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Waukegan
I don't necessarily disagree with those who opine that the most likely transfer out will be TJ. But I just have to wonder if, after not playing a big chunk last year and missing so much this year will TJ want to sit out a year? On the other hand, maybe he will still feel it is best to move on considering these last two years.

Also, again, my own opinion based on nothing much but I just don't see Ayo coming back next year. He will either try the NBA or go to some pro team somewhere. Bet my beach house on it.
 
We actually had plenty of players on that team who were not Top 100 recruits, including a starter (Luther). Added to Luther were Calvin Brock, Jack Ingram, and Marcus Arnold who were all non-Top 100 recruits coming out of high school.
Luther wasn’t top 100?! I believe you I’m just totally shocked. Speaking of coaching finds, he turned out phenomenally aside from his legal issues. Ingram, I missed him because he was a transfer, but good point. Calvin and the others I missed because the site I referenced apparently only lists player with minutes played as on the roster. Good catch.
 
For reference, these are the ranked players on the runner-up team. The point I’d like to illustrate is that the really good teams have really good players on the bench too, and not everyone plays.
19 - Brown
48 - Deron
62 - Roger
78 - Augie
77 - Smith
28 - McBride
76 - Carter
77 - Pruitt
52 - Randall
86 - Spears
 
Sports reference will list players who played in the NBA and their RSCI rankings in the teams year by year page: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/illinois/2005.html

Pretty helpful and cool, until you realize some of the talent we had on teams that did squat. These BU squads have had the least ranked talent we've had since 2000. 2012 saw us have 8 top 100 ranked kids. Last year we had one.

I get that rankings aren't everything (see the 2011-2012 season), but the drop off has been obvious. Next year, I assume we have three top 100 kids on the team. Still less than any Groce team.
 
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Phoenix, AZ
Sports reference will list players who played in the NBA and their RSCI rankings in the teams year by year page: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/illinois/2005.html

Pretty helpful and cool, until you realize some of the talent we had on teams that did squat. These BU squads have had the least ranked talent we've had since 2000. 2012 saw us have 8 top 100 ranked kids. Last year we had one.

I get that rankings aren't everything (see the 2011-2012 season), but the drop off has been obvious. Next year, I assume we have three top 100 kids on the team. Still less than any Groce team.
They're missing Marcus Arnold, too (also unranked), but maybe he had to sit out that year because he transferred from ISU?
 
If curbello lives up to his ranking he will be playing 30+, easy. The other talent on the roster won’t make a difference. This team desperately needs a distributor.

Keep in mind Dee played 35 mins or so as a freshman on a team that had 7 or 8 top 100 players.
You are kind of mixing 2 different teams here as 2005 wasn't Dee's freshman year. here is the roster

But Dee's freshman year we desperately needed a pg, both Deron & Dee played a bunch, but Luther was just a developing sophomore & certainly not a pg, especially as a sophomore , Harrington & Jerrance were the other options. With Trent coming back the need shouldn't be as great next year
 
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They're missing Marcus Arnold, too (also unranked), but maybe he had to sit out that year because he transferred from ISU?
Sports reference will list players who played in the NBA and their RSCI rankings in the teams year by year page: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/illinois/2005.html

Pretty helpful and cool, until you realize some of the talent we had on teams that did squat. These BU squads have had the least ranked talent we've had since 2000. 2012 saw us have 8 top 100 ranked kids. Last year we had one.

I get that rankings aren't everything (see the 2011-2012 season), but the drop off has been obvious. Next year, I assume we have three top 100 kids on the team. Still less than any Groce team.
So which Groce team do you want to trade for this team?
 
Sports reference will list players who played in the NBA and their RSCI rankings in the teams year by year page: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/illinois/2005.html

Pretty helpful and cool, until you realize some of the talent we had on teams that did squat. These BU squads have had the least ranked talent we've had since 2000. 2012 saw us have 8 top 100 ranked kids. Last year we had one.

I get that rankings aren't everything (see the 2011-2012 season), but the drop off has been obvious. Next year, I assume we have three top 100 kids on the team. Still less than any Groce team.
For the optimist, the upside is that BU (or Groce) has nabbed several hidden gems that probably should have been top 100 kids: Griffin, Giorgi, Frazier...not to mention what the re-ranking of transfers like Feliz and Hutcherson might be.

I'm perfectly fine with low-ranked players as long as the team is doing well. I didn't hear any complaints from Michigan fans about Beilein's lack of recruiting chops.
 
For the optimist, the upside is that BU (or Groce) has nabbed several hidden gems that probably should have been top 100 kids: Griffin, Giorgi, Frazier...not to mention what the re-ranking of transfers like Feliz and Hutcherson might be.

I'm perfectly fine with low-ranked players as long as the team is doing well. I didn't hear any complaints from Michigan fans about Beilein's lack of recruiting chops.
I totally get that stars or rankings dont mean anything if you can field successful teams, but there is clear correlation with talent and success. Michigan/Beilein is an outlier. But I am also fine finding Trey Burkes of the world, if it were that simple.

I guess my point was, the last time we had any sort of success, we had more than 1 top 100 RSCI player. Right now, we have 2, we should have 3 next year, and those three are potential top 50. Put upperclassmen Fraizer, Griffin, and Giorgi with them and that's a great combination of talent and experience and something I don't think we've had since 2012 (or really come close too). The roster makeup is just inherently different than we've had for the better part of the last decade and regardless of how this season ends, there's no reason that team can't compete at the top tier or the B1G and in the second week of the tournament.

People point to Groce missing recruits at important times (unlucky or lack of backups or whatever you want to say aside), he clearly didn't make the team better than the sum of its parts. BU will have a chance to show that he can next year.
 
They're missing Marcus Arnold, too (also unranked), but maybe he had to sit out that year because he transferred from ISU?
I ran into this too... I think they only include players who have stats on their roster lists. I’ve also found a few examples where the same player will have an RSCI number one season but none the next season.

My list a few posts above was mostly taken from Sports Reference then some googling to fill in blanks, but still probably missed someone.
 
I totally get that stars or rankings dont mean anything if you can field successful teams, but there is clear correlation with talent and success. Michigan/Beilein is an outlier. But I am also fine finding Trey Burkes of the world, if it were that simple.

I guess my point was, the last time we had any sort of success, we had more than 1 top 100 RSCI player. Right now, we have 2, we should have 3 next year, and those three are potential top 50. Put upperclassmen Fraizer, Griffin, and Giorgi with them and that's a great combination of talent and experience and something I don't think we've had since 2012 (or really come close too). The roster makeup is just inherently different than we've had for the better part of the last decade and regardless of how this season ends, there's no reason that team can't compete at the top tier or the B1G and in the second week of the tournament.

People point to Groce missing recruits at important times (unlucky or lack of backups or whatever you want to say aside), he clearly didn't make the team better than the sum of its parts. BU will have a chance to show that he can next year.
So which Groce roster would you trade for this one?
 
So which Groce roster would you trade for this one?
I think the 2012-2013 team was the most talented of the past decade and it wasn't particularly close. I think Groce had more talent on other teams compared to our current one (namely the next two years after 2012-2013). If we throw out injuries, I'd probably take those teams over the current one too.

Next years team has a chance to top 12-13 in terms of talent IMO.
 
I think the 2012-2013 team was the most talented of the past decade and it wasn't particularly close. I think Groce had more talent on other teams compared to our current one (namely the next two years after 2012-2013). If we throw out injuries, I'd probably take those teams over the current one too.

Next years team has a chance to top 12-13 in terms of talent IMO.
Don’t agree: compare the four of Paul, Richardson, Abrams, and Bertrand to Ayo, Dre, Trent, and Alan and 12-13 avg 2.5 more points and greater 3 pt avg but much lower overall shooting percentage. The trio of Griffey, Egwu, and McLaurin are 9.3 pts scored and 4.4 rebounds less than Kofi, Giorgi, and Kipper. As a team they averaged 68.5 pts and allowed 64.8 and current team averages 75.9 and allows 64.4. The only superior thing was HS ranking and I am an admirer of Paul and Richardson.
 
Don’t agree: compare the four of Paul, Richardson, Abrams, and Bertrand to Ayo, Dre, Trent, and Alan and 12-13 avg 2.5 more points and greater 3 pt avg but much lower overall shooting percentage. The trio of Griffey, Egwu, and McLaurin are 9.3 pts scored and 4.4 rebounds less than Kofi, Giorgi, and Kipper. As a team they averaged 68.5 pts and allowed 64.8 and current team averages 75.9 and allows 64.4. The only superior thing was HS ranking and I am an admirer of Paul and Richardson.
Seeing this just devolved into watching a bunch of Bertrand and Paul dunk videos (Trevor Mbakwe anyone?)...skill wins the day but man I miss having some guys on the team that could really yam on dudes.
 
How many of those guys were Weber's recruits? I seem to remember Groce walking into a pretty good situation. Maybe I'm misremembering?

You are misremebering. After the first year with Paul, Richardson, etc. our team going forward with Weber would have been with Jalen James, Michael Orris, Ibby, Henry, Langford, and Shaw in addition to Egwu & Abrams. James and Orris as our guards would have sunk us. We would have been looking at 5 win type seasons had Groce not transformed that team to a bubble team.
 
You are misremebering. After the first year with Paul, Richardson, etc. our team going forward with Weber would have been with Jalen James, Michael Orris, Ibby, Henry, Langford, and Shaw in addition to Egwu & Abrams. James and Orris as our guards would have sunk us. We would have been looking at 5 win type seasons had Groce not transformed that team to a bubble team.
I'd maybe have gone with "improved" or something here :)
 
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