2020 NBA Draft

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Forgottonia
I think that rule has changed and that you can declare once, and then back out after testing the waters. Hiring an agent is the one permanent method of declaring.
That’s what I meant in my poorly worded post. Thanks for clarifying.
 
Forgottonia
Maybe I missed it, but I don’t remember him declaring last year in which case he hasn’t used up that one time option (if that is indeed still a one-time thing).
The longer I think about it, I believe you are correct. He never actually declared, just announced he was returning. Your memory is clearly better than mine!
 
Kofi seems like a lock to be a top 15 NBA pick. Am I wrong about this?
I was really high on his draft stock/ability to go pro after this year earlier this year (see my posts earlier in this thread). A lot of this was based off his performance in the Michigan game. While I still think there's the potential he leaves, I'm not as confident as in early December. Kofi appeared quite bouncy in the Michigan game against a solid (and huge) big, but I haven't seen that as much since. Take the "thunderous" jam he had against Purdue -- he barely got the lift needed to stuff it. His wingspan doesn't appear to be above average either. Combine those (relative lack of hops + short wingspan) with a relatively limited offensive game, and I'm not confident in his draft stock at the moment or his ability to go pro after this year.

Granted, this draft class is viewed as very weak at the moment while next year's freshman class is more highly touted, so that could tip the scales. I bet he at least tests the waters.

EDIT: I should add that I've never thought he's top 15 pick good, and don't think he will ever get that high in the draft unless he turns into a stretch big and starts nailing threes.
 
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I was really high on his draft stock/ability to go pro after this year earlier this year (see my posts earlier in this thread). A lot of this was based off his performance in the Michigan game. While I still think there's the potential he leaves, I'm not as confident as in early December. Kofi appeared quite bouncy in the Michigan game against a solid (and huge) big, but I haven't seen that as much since. Take the "thunderous" jam he had against Purdue -- he barely got the lift needed to stuff it. His wingspan doesn't appear to be above average either. Combine those (relative lack of hops + short wingspan) with a relatively limited offensive game, and I'm not confident in his draft stock at the moment or his ability to go pro after this year.

Granted, this draft class is viewed as very weak at the moment while next year's freshman class is more highly touted, so that could tip the scales. I bet he at least tests the waters.

EDIT: I should add that I've never thought he's top 15 pick good, and don't think he will ever get that high in the draft unless he turns into a stretch big and starts nailing threes.
Its never good to get your draft stock information from a message board 1/4 of the way through a players freshman year. Go back and watch that dunk from the Purdue game. He took off from outside the restricted area. Also Coach Underwood said Kofis wingspan is 7'6". Don't get me wrong I agree he needs more time to develop his game, but the tools are present. He has good touch around the rim and his mid range jumper doesn't look bad for a guy who is in his 4th year of organised basketball. There aren't many 7' 280-290 pound humans walking this Earth with his athleticism. I just hope he doesn't fall for the "NBA can develop bigs" narrative.
 
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Its never good to get your draft stock information from a message board 1/4 of the way through a players freshman year. Go back and watch that dunk from the Purdue game. He took off from outside the restricted area. Also Coach Underwood said Kofis wingspan is 7'6". Don't get me wrong I agree he needs more time to develop his game, but the tools are present. He has good touch around the rim and his mid range jumper doesn't look bad for a guy who is in his 4th year of organised basketball. There aren't many 7' 280-290 pound humans walking this Earth with his athleticism. I just hope he doesn't fall for the "NBA can develop bigs" narrative.
Pot, meet kettle.

Apparently you need to go back and watch that dunk, his right foot is on the line. Either way, he's right next to the basket. Think about the bounce that had Meyers shoot up draft boards. I just don't see the same degree with him, especially in game.

If his wingspan is truly that long, then you're right, he does have all the tools. But from what I've seen the past several years, most big men being taken in the first round are either highly skilled (Wendell Carter, Mo Bamba, etc.) or explosive leapers (Jaxson Hayes, Robert Williams), or both. I think Kofi has the base to develop the skill -- particularly shooting -- needed to become a first round pick, but I don't believe he has the requisite traits at the moment to garner first round (or even high second round) attention this year.

Now, notice I use the words think and believe...that is because these are opinions (gasp!). If you want information, go elsewhere.
 
Pot, meet kettle.

Apparently you need to go back and watch that dunk, his right foot is on the line. Either way, he's right next to the basket. Think about the bounce that had Meyers shoot up draft boards. I just don't see the same degree with him, especially in game.

If his wingspan is truly that long, then you're right, he does have all the tools. But from what I've seen the past several years, most big men being taken in the first round are either highly skilled (Wendell Carter, Mo Bamba, etc.) or explosive leapers (Jaxson Hayes, Robert Williams), or both. I think Kofi has the base to develop the skill -- particularly shooting -- needed to become a first round pick, but I don't believe he has the requisite traits at the moment to garner first round (or even high second round) attention this year.

Now, notice I use the words think and believe...that is because these are opinions (gasp!). If you want information, go elsewhere.
Maybe its the difference of 30-40 pounds thats makes Myers Leonard a better leaper. We are making the same point that we both think he needs to stay and develop, but so does almost all players who leave early. I do agree with that you Bigs who can either shoot or can move tend to get drafted in the first round, but it isn't black or white like you are making it out to be. Go back and look at previous years drafted C. Look at how bad history has been for NBA franchises. Mo Bamba was drafted because of he was highly skilled? Robert Williams is in the G-League. NBA teams gush over big athletes is the point I want to make. Almost every NBA draft bust list is filled with Bigs. Therefore, to think that if Kofi did leave early he wouldn't get draft at all is a stretch.
 
I'm so afraid to ask, but what narrative is this?
2009 - 2nd overall Hasheem Thabeet
2009 - 8th overall Jordan Hill
2010 - 11th overall Cole Aldrich
2010 - 6th overall Ekpe Udoh
2011 - 7th overall Bismack Biyombo
2012 - 11th overall Meyers Leonard
2012 - 14th overall John Henson
2013 - 4th overall Cody Zellar
2013 - 5th overall Alex Len
2013 - 6th overall Nerlens Noel
2015 - 3rd overall Jahlil Okafor
2016 - 9th overall Jakob Poltl
2016 - 13th overall Georgios Papagiannis
 
Maybe its the difference of 30-40 pounds thats makes Myers Leonard a better leaper. We are making the same point that we both think he needs to stay and develop, but so does almost all players who leave early. I do agree with that you Bigs who can either shoot or can move tend to get drafted in the first round, but it isn't black or white like you are making it out to be. Go back and look at previous years drafted C. Look at how bad history has been for NBA franchises. Mo Bamba was drafted because of he was highly skilled? Robert Williams is in the G-League. NBA teams gush over big athletes is the point I want to make. Almost every NBA draft bust list is filled with Bigs. Therefore, to think that if Kofi did leave early he wouldn't get draft at all is a stretch.
100% agree with you that the list of NBA draft busts that are big is verrrrrrrry long. And that teams easily get enamored by a singular trait and put the blinders on everything else when assessing a prospect. Theoretically, I expect them to get slightly better at this (or at least reduce the bust rate on big men) do to the declining involvement of big men in the league.

I wrote Bamba down as skilled solely for his shooting -- that's what helped teams overlook an otherwise blah season at Texas and salivate over another potential shot blocking, sharpshooting big man. As for Robert Williams, I don't believe he's in the G League anymore but if he is it's for medical reasons (hips) -- he was pretty good earlier this season.

My point is that Kofi doesn't currently check the boxes you'd want in a big. But you are absolutely correct in that he has the potential that teams salivate over and make draft decisions based on, and for that reason alone (not to mention he's actually been pretty darn good) he could go higher/sooner than I would otherwise expect.
 
I am beginning to be a little more nervous that we may only have Kofi for one year. I sure hope we get two, but he sure looks solid against some very good talent early in the season. Well done tonight to the team! We needed this one!
I think underwood and antigua will have a heart to heart with Kofi and tell him something along the lines of this" you are a great player who literally develops more and more every game, you will do great in the league, however if you give us another year to develop your skillset, fine tune your skills you will absolutely jump from late first round to second round draft pick to a lottery pick, probably somewhere between 5th and 10th. Being drafted between lottery and 2nd round is a difference in a whole lot of money, give us and your brother one more season and we will turn you into a millionaire".
In sure they wont use the same wording but they are great salesman and can pull kofi in for one more!
 
I have heard from a source that hosted a couple of workouts for Kofi last year that he currently has no intentions to enter the draft.
He could maybe change his mind and enter his name, but he knows his offensive move sets are still a work in progress. That inconsistency is starting to show more in conference play, so maybe some people can breath a sigh of relief atleast till the close of the season.
 
Los Angeles
2009 - 2nd overall Hasheem Thabeet
2009 - 8th overall Jordan Hill
2010 - 11th overall Cole Aldrich
2010 - 6th overall Ekpe Udoh
2011 - 7th overall Bismack Biyombo
2012 - 11th overall Meyers Leonard
2012 - 14th overall John Henson
2013 - 4th overall Cody Zellar
2013 - 5th overall Alex Len
2013 - 6th overall Nerlens Noel
2015 - 3rd overall Jahlil Okafor
2016 - 9th overall Jakob Poltl
2016 - 13th overall Georgios Papagiannis
Is this supposed to mean something? There are starting centers in this list. There are guys with multiple, multi million dollar contracts. Are you implying that the league's top tier big men were finished products when they arrived in the league?

There's no argument to be made that basketball players are going to develop better outside a setting of...professional basketball.
 
There's no argument to be made that basketball players are going to develop better outside a setting of...professional basketball.
Could not agree more with this sentiment. I don't understand why people think it's easier to develop playing against inferior competition with less institutional resources while juggling classes, homework, no $$$ to hire a personal assistant, etc. For every Thabeet or Papagiannis there's a Hassan Whiteside or Deandre Jordan that develops and blossoms later in their career.

The NBA draft is a crap shoot. Some guys prove they were worth the pick, some don't. You never know for sure how much work a guy will put into his game once he receives his first million dollar paycheck.
 
Could not agree more with this sentiment. I don't understand why people think it's easier to develop playing against inferior competition with less institutional resources while juggling classes, homework, no $$$ to hire a personal assistant, etc. For every Thabeet or Papagiannis there's a Hassan Whiteside or Deandre Jordan that develops and blossoms later in their career.

The NBA draft is a crap shoot. Some guys prove they were worth the pick, some don't. You never know for sure how much work a guy will put into his game once he receives his first million dollar paycheck.
I guess I am just old fashioned. I think 1 and done is lowering the quality of basketball in the NBA. Too many of these guys are jumping after 1 year in college who aren't fully prepared for professional basketball. I don't blame them at all because the money is better than it has ever been in the NBA. What I am trying to prove is that most young men can develop better under the structure of college and that is looked at as a negative now. Is there really that much less of institutional resources compared to the NBA to College? That is an honest question. I just see multi-year college players come into the NBA more polished and ready. This includes a good handful of international players (ex: Gasol Brothers).

I just need to get off my soap box and get off here airing out my views on the current state of basketball.
 
I guess I am just old fashioned. I think 1 and done is lowering the quality of basketball in the NBA. Too many of these guys are jumping after 1 year in college who aren't fully prepared for professional basketball. I don't blame them at all because the money is better than it has ever been in the NBA. What I am trying to prove is that most young men can develop better under the structure of college and that is looked at as a negative now. Is there really that much less of institutional resources compared to the NBA to College? That is an honest question. I just see multi-year college players come into the NBA more polished and ready. This includes a good handful of international players (ex: Gasol Brothers).

I just need to get off my soap box and get off here airing out my views on the current state of basketball.
Don't get off your soap box! That's what this place is for!!

The amount of support staff that NBA teams have these days are pretty insane...I recently heard about 50 people travel on average with NBA teams these days, and that leaves out all the people staying home during away games. I'm less familiar with how much support staff an average (or elite) college program has, but I just assume they don't have the same resources to hire the same number of shooting coaches and experts in other minutiae of the game. Doesn't the NCAA also have restrictions on the number of staff a team can have? This doesn't even account for the fact that there are only so many people at the cutting edge of their craft, and the money NBA teams can throw at people would suggest they've hired more of the best than college teams. Again, just as assumption here.

A lot probably depends on the person. Do you thrive better in a highly structured environment like college, or one where you have a lot more free time that, hypothetically, would allow one to singularly focus on their craft (reality probably involves a lot more video games)? Are you better developing as a big fish, or as the fourth best big on a team, knowing you will need to work your a** off if you ever want a chance to see game time? I'm sure the answer varies from person to person.

I think the 1-and-done rule gets a lot of grief but don't think it lowers the quality of play in the NBA (I would argue its had a bigger effect on the college game). Before the rule, you had a lot of high school prospects going directly pro, and the hit rate on them was even lower. Unless the rules are changed to something like football, which I doubt will ever happen, people are always going to be enticed by an immediate seven figure bank account and jump ship before they're ready. Luckily, it sounds like the guy we all care about is leaning against making such a decision.
 
1/10/20 from Sam Vecenie of The Athletic...The mock draft is starting to be more of about what I’m hearing from sources about draft ranges on specific kids, as opposed to it more being about where I am on kids.

54. Los Angeles Clippers

Ayo Dosunmu | 6-4 guard | 20 years old, sophomore | Illinois

Dosunmu has been one of the more disappointing players in the country this year, looking mostly like the same guy he was last year for Illinois. He’s still a terror out in transition because of his long strides and open-floor ballhandling, but in the halfcourt it’s tough to find what to do with him. He’s still not nearly a consistent enough shooter, and has been a bit more turnover prone this year. I think someone would take a shot if he declared, but he hasn’t helped himself.
 
Los Angeles
1/10/20 from Sam Vecenie of The Athletic...The mock draft is starting to be more of about what I’m hearing from sources about draft ranges on specific kids, as opposed to it more being about where I am on kids.

54. Los Angeles Clippers

Ayo Dosunmu | 6-4 guard | 20 years old, sophomore | Illinois

Dosunmu has been one of the more disappointing players in the country this year, looking mostly like the same guy he was last year for Illinois. He’s still a terror out in transition because of his long strides and open-floor ballhandling, but in the halfcourt it’s tough to find what to do with him. He’s still not nearly a consistent enough shooter, and has been a bit more turnover prone this year. I think someone would take a shot if he declared, but he hasn’t helped himself.
As much as I buy that the writer is getting legit info from NBA reps, to chalk up Ayo's halfcourt struggles as solely his fault is myopic. Both Trent and Ayo are at the mercy of how BU schemes Giorgi/Kofi. Things have been better lately for Ayo, and I don't think it's a coincidence that it comes when the Giorgi on the perimeter experiment has been mostly scrapped.
 
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I genuinely hope Ayo goes pro. It will be wonderful publicity for the program (ideally providing a recruiting bump of some kind) to be able to pitch instate kids on staying home and making it to the NBA after two years like Chicago hero Ayo, especially if we can make any sort of NCAA Tournament run this year (even if that's just to the Second Round). Also, I would like Miller to come in and hit the ground running with Frazier to guide him along. The rest of our core would probably be even better, and we could really get something going.
 
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I genuinely hope Ayo goes pro. It will be wonderful publicity for the program (ideally providing a recruiting bump of some kind) to be able to pitch instate kids on staying home and making it to the NBA after two years like Chicago hero Ayo, especially if we can make any sort of NCAA Tournament run this year (even if that's just to the Second Round). Also, I would like Miller to come in and hit the ground running with Frazier to guide him along. The rest of our core would probably be even better, and we could really get something going.
I only think he should go pro if he is really firmly in the first round. He needs to do what's best for him and not worry about the rest. I dont feel he is a first round pick yet but I hope he gets there. Either way I think he turns pro whether he is ready or not.

I am very excited to see what our 2 transfers can do. I dont feel BU would have added them both to sit a year if they arent capable of getting impactful minutes or possibly starting when he added them. They may or may not slide down in the rotation time will tell. I expect them to play and one or two others to slide down or transfer out.
 
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I don't care when Ayo goes pro, just that he does and has the kind of success Kedrick is having.
To bad Illinois isn't getting the publicity from Nunn. The articles often talk about the surprise success of the undrafted rookie from Oakland University.
 
To bad Illinois isn't getting the publicity from Nunn. The articles often talk about the surprise success of the undrafted rookie from Oakland University.
I've seen several that talk about "former Illini guard" and talk about how he ended up on Oakland. Will agree that it stinks Illinois doesn't just get normal publicity for him.
 
To bad Illinois isn't getting the publicity from Nunn.
The kids that want to play at Illinois and have a thought of going pro, know Nunn played here and done very well, they also know why he ended up at Oakland.
 
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