Chicago Cubs 2020 Season

The Cubs aren't "dumping" Bryant. They are shopping one of their best assets. And there is no way they trade him for just prospects. Word on the street is that they've spoken to Washington about a trade, but are insistent upon a return that includes Robles.
It's mostly about "dumping" his salary to get under the luxury tax, I didn't mean it as if they were dumping him like they he's trash haha.

Robles is a pipe dream, but the package I saw the other day of Kieboom & their 3rd at 4th ranked pitching prospects is actually really good and should be jumped at. I mostly mean they weren't going to get another MLB player owed real money, because again, it's more about the salary dump to get under the tax rather than making the 2020 team better.
 
Likes: the national
A Legend in My Own Mind
Montgomery, IL
Robles is a pipe dream, but the package I saw the other day of Kieboom & their 3rd at 4th ranked pitching prospects is actually really good and should be jumped at. I mostly mean they weren't going to get another MLB player owed real money, because again, it's more about the salary dump to get under the tax rather than making the 2020 team better.
I agree that Robles is a pipe dream, but I haven't heard anyone indicate that they would even consider only prospects for Bryant. Most any player is going to be a downgrade, but they will need MLB level talent in return.
 
Just an insane statement.
You're talking Bryant at 2 years ~$40MM. That's about $30MM to $40MM in excess value if he's a 5 win guy each year. A top 10, 60 grade prospect like Kieboom is worth something like $40MM to $60MM depending on what model you want to look at. Then there's two 45 grade pitchers on top of that.

That's an amazing deal for the Cubs
 
Little Rock, Arkansas
In real-life (i.e., non-roster) disheartening news, the toddler who was struck with a foul ball in Houston from Almora's bat has suffered permanent brain damage.
https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2020/01/08/attorney-toddlers-brain-injury-from-foul-ball-is-permanent/


Obviously this is a tragic incident and is in no way the fault of Almora, but there is no excuse not require extended safety netting in all MLB stadiums.
This breaks my heart. I hope she can lead a relatively normal life and the seizures are few and far between.

I believe this was the one where the camera got a shot of Almora crying in the arms of one of the security folks right? He has young kids of his own and I remember the weight of it was crushing him in that moment.

I had to look away when I saw him otherwise I would have started crying as well. (I have a young son who was just over one at that time. Being a parent definitely changes you)
 
The Transfer Portal
You're talking Bryant at 2 years ~$40MM. That's about $30MM to $40MM in excess value if he's a 5 win guy each year. A top 10, 60 grade prospect like Kieboom is worth something like $40MM to $60MM depending on what model you want to look at. Then there's two 45 grade pitchers on top of that.

That's an amazing deal for the Cubs
I think what the Cardinals just got for *Jose Martinez* means the Cubs should aim pretty astronomically high for any Bryant package (note: they should not be trying to trade Bryant at all. It’s super dumb.)
 
Likes: bdutts
I think what the Cardinals just got for *Jose Martinez* means the Cubs should aim pretty astronomically high for any Bryant package (note: they should not be trying to trade Bryant at all. It’s super dumb.)
Yea that trade seems like a fleece. Rays must really like Randy Arozarena, or its just the cheap !!! Rays getting 2 cheap controlled guys in a window where they can be competitive instead of waiting for a pitcher to develop.

i wholeheartedly agree on not trading Bryant though. They should be pushing it all in these next 2-3 seasons, if payroll is a problem now it’s going to be even worse with a Baez/ Contreras extension and a rotation like 4/5ths full of free agent dollars.
 
Geneseo, IL
I hadn't paid much attention to the sign-stealing investigation that MLB was conducting until I heard the news that came out today. Wow. I've never had a problem with players on the field stealing signs. To me that's just part of the game. If a guy is standing at second base I don't expect him to ignore something that's happening right in front of his eyes. But what the Astros did was really egregious. I've never been a fan of teams having to abdicate wins or championships when something they did decades ago comes to light. But this is recent enough that I think MLB should seriously consider taking the 2017 WS title away from Houston and either leaving it vacant or giving it to the Dodgers. Sounds like they are also investigating the 2018 series as well. Very bad for the league.
 
Don't follow baseball so I've no clue what is going on in regards to all this.... So i googled it. First thing that came up?

"In baseball, sign stealing is the observing and relaying, through legal and illegal methods, of the signs being given by the opposing catcher to the pitcher. The signs are relayed to the batter to let him know what kind of pitch is coming next, thereby giving him an advantage."

My first thought was, if the batter gets an advantage by stealing the signs, then the pitcher must also get an advantage if the batter DOESN'T steal the sign.... Right? Why should anyone 'get an advantage'??? If the pitcher can get get help from the catcher, and signs from the coaches on the bench, then why can't the batter get signs from a baserunner, 1st/3rd base coach, or the coaches on the bench? I see no problem with stealing signs as long as it's not done via someone in the stands using video cameras. Perhaps that is what's happening here, and that is the 'Illegal' thing that is happening......

The solution seems simple. The pitchers need to know the opposing batters well enough that he doesn't need signs, from anyone. Then there is nothing to 'Steal'. Advantage - Pitcher......
 
Reading up on this even more....

"Manfred hit Hinch with the third-longest suspension of a manager in baseball history. Only Pete Rose, banned in 1989 for life for gambling received a longer punishment."

"MLB found that while Hinch did not participate in or condone the infractions, it disciplined him for failing to stop them in a timely manner. The Astros stole signs for three months in the 2017 regular season before Hinch at least twice explicitly made known to the players he disapproved of the behavior by breaking the television monitor."

Is that for real???? Guy does what he can to prevent it, and then still gets hammered!?!?!?!.......
 
Don't follow baseball so I've no clue what is going on in regards to all this.... So i googled it. First thing that came up?

"In baseball, sign stealing is the observing and relaying, through legal and illegal methods, of the signs being given by the opposing catcher to the pitcher. The signs are relayed to the batter to let him know what kind of pitch is coming next, thereby giving him an advantage."

My first thought was, if the batter gets an advantage by stealing the signs, then the pitcher must also get an advantage if the batter DOESN'T steal the sign.... Right? Why should anyone 'get an advantage'??? If the pitcher can get get help from the catcher, and signs from the coaches on the bench, then why can't the batter get signs from a baserunner, 1st/3rd base coach, or the coaches on the bench? I see no problem with stealing signs as long as it's not done via someone in the stands using video cameras. Perhaps that is what's happening here, and that is the 'Illegal' thing that is happening......

The solution seems simple. The pitchers need to know the opposing batters well enough that he doesn't need signs, from anyone. Then there is nothing to 'Steal'. Advantage - Pitcher......
Yes, this was done by a camera set up in CF. Stealing signs as a baserunner isn't inherently illegal...catchers will switch up the seqence of signs when there is a runner on. But if no one is on 2nd, the catcher will just put down the sign and move on. Instead, they were being recorded in these situations. It gives a clear advantage to the hitter that shouldn't be there in this case...my opinion.
 
Don't follow baseball so I've no clue what is going on in regards to all this.... So i googled it. First thing that came up?

"In baseball, sign stealing is the observing and relaying, through legal and illegal methods, of the signs being given by the opposing catcher to the pitcher. The signs are relayed to the batter to let him know what kind of pitch is coming next, thereby giving him an advantage."

My first thought was, if the batter gets an advantage by stealing the signs, then the pitcher must also get an advantage if the batter DOESN'T steal the sign.... Right? Why should anyone 'get an advantage'??? If the pitcher can get get help from the catcher, and signs from the coaches on the bench, then why can't the batter get signs from a baserunner, 1st/3rd base coach, or the coaches on the bench? I see no problem with stealing signs as long as it's not done via someone in the stands using video cameras. Perhaps that is what's happening here, and that is the 'Illegal' thing that is happening......

The solution seems simple. The pitchers need to know the opposing batters well enough that he doesn't need signs, from anyone. Then there is nothing to 'Steal'. Advantage - Pitcher......
As someone who does follow baseball and the Cubs religiously, what you are saying here is utterly ridiculous.
 
Likes: Ramrod2010
The solution seems simple. The pitchers need to know the opposing batters well enough that he doesn't need signs, from anyone. Then there is nothing to 'Steal'. Advantage - Pitcher......
You’ve clearly never played baseball. At least not past 7th grade.

The catcher needs to know what the pitcher is throwing. A fastball when the catcher is expecting a curveball or vice versa could literally get someone killed.

Search “catcher cross up” on YouTube for examples of what happens when the catcher doesn’t know what’s coming.
 
Houston, Texas
I hadn't paid much attention to the sign-stealing investigation that MLB was conducting until I heard the news that came out today. Wow. I've never had a problem with players on the field stealing signs. To me that's just part of the game. If a guy is standing at second base I don't expect him to ignore something that's happening right in front of his eyes. But what the Astros did was really egregious. I've never been a fan of teams having to abdicate wins or championships when something they did decades ago comes to light. But this is recent enough that I think MLB should seriously consider taking the 2017 WS title away from Houston and either leaving it vacant or giving it to the Dodgers. Sounds like they are also investigating the 2018 series as well. Very bad for the league.
it’s interesting, here in Houston, fans essentially don‘t care since they got theirs and they say its worth it Since the title won’t be vacated (I’d be in favor of that). Everywhere else, though, people question whether or not they would have won had they not cheated. Their WS win will have a virtual asterisk attached to it. Same with Boston in 2018.
 
Houston, Texas
Is that for real???? Guy does what he can to prevent it, and then still gets hammered!?!?!?!.......
If he did what he could to prevent it, he would have broken the TV three months earlier than he did.
 
Houston, Texas
Cora was bench coach for the Astros in 17 and then manager for the Red Sox in 18. Some speculation he might get an indefinite ban.

If long standing rumors are correct, the Brewers should be getting a visit from the League at some point.
Cora is definitely next up on the suspension list. And its no wonder the Astros current bench coach didn’t get a managerial job this year...
 
Likes: Ramrod2010
There was some questions whether Darvish was tipping his pitches in the 2017 WS. Wonder if they were stealing his signs in game #3 on the road and then maybe the Astros were in his head for game #7 at home.

It took him almost a year and a half to get his confidence back - admittedly with some injuries thrown in, too.

Still, when people complain that the Astros punishment isn’t enough, this is the type of downstream effects that they’re talking about. Guys could have gotten hurt from overthrowing, guys got demoted, cut, lost money in free agency or arbitration.
 
Likes: Ramrod2010
Houston, Texas
There was some questions whether Darvish was tipping his pitches in the 2017 WS. Wonder if they were stealing his signs in game #3 on the road and then maybe the Astros were in his head for game #7 at home.

It took him almost a year and a half to get his confidence back - admittedly with some injuries thrown in, too.

Still, when people complain that the Astros punishment isn’t enough, this is the type of downstream effects that they’re talking about. Guys could have gotten hurt from overthrowing, guys got demoted, cut, lost money in free agency or arbitration.
I think the comments about Yu tipping pitches came from Houston, maybe to keep MLB off the trail...look at Yu’s stats in the playoffs v the Cubs then v the Astros.
 
Likes: Ramrod2010
Yes, this was done by a camera set up in CF. Stealing signs as a baserunner isn't inherently illegal...catchers will switch up the seqence of signs when there is a runner on. But if no one is on 2nd, the catcher will just put down the sign and move on. Instead, they were being recorded in these situations. It gives a clear advantage to the hitter that shouldn't be there in this case...my opinion.
Thanks Krush for the friendly, insightful, and intelligent response!

The rest of y'all.... whatever. My comments sure brought out the Dr Phil know-it-all types didn't it?!?!? :ROFLMAO: I didn't say I didn't know anything about baseball, I said I didn't know anything about the recent sign stealing snafu..... For various reasons MLB, NBA, and the NFL have fallen to the periphery of my interests the past several years and I am primarily an Illini sports homer anymore. You guys with the snide remarks and wanting me to somehow be impressed by your knowledge of the game are jumping on my arse over an off-handed flippant remark on not using signs at all! It might be a sign 🚫 that you just need to chill out and relax!

Sorry AZis, usually not a good idea to post on something you don't know anything about. The posters here are fair but will send a meatball pitch over the heart of the plate over the fence every time.
Haha, you and I have differing opinions on posters. I find that the vast majority post things on stuff they don't know much about. I can count on one hand the posters on each thread of UI sports that have demonstrated a thorough knowledge of that sport. And that's okay! It's what we are here for, comments, opinions, beliefs, gripes, etc.....

Fellow posters, I am glad I was able to occupy some of your time this fine day! (y) Go Illini! :hailtotheorange:
 
Cora was bench coach for the Astros in 17 and then manager for the Red Sox in 18. Some speculation he might get an indefinite ban.

If long standing rumors are correct, the Brewers should be getting a visit from the League at some point.
Brewers don't cheat by stealing signs, they use the old metrodome trick of blasting the A/C out during the Brewer's at bats and in during the road teams at bats 🌬
 
Likes: Ramrod2010
I'm all for vacating titles, in this situation I'm on the fence.

I'm never for giving the losing team the win or title. They lost. And nobody can say they'd have won if the other team didn't cheat. It's just stupid. May be sacreligious here, but if UNC was forced to vacate 2005, there isn't any part of me that would want that title.
 
Likes: IanKEvans2