Groce / Akron Lawsuit

#6
This is absolutely horrendous. A show cause for 4-5 years would not be enough in my opinion for Groce.
 
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#8
Charlotte, NC
The nature of the beating and the negligence in not helping the player get medical treatment sounds terrible. But is it just me or does discrimination against someone for being white and Catholic (in midwestern America, no less) sound like a tough case to prove?
 
#9
That police report is startling.
Where did you see the police report? Or are you just taking the one quote in the article.

Certainly sounds bad on the surface, but I suspect more fights happen at basketball practice than we care to know about. Maybe we should let it play out before we through Groce under the bus just because we don't like his coaching, There is certainly some financial incentive why the plaintiff's side would want it to sound as bad as possible.
 
#10
Michigan
Where did you see the police report? Or are you just taking the one quote in the article.

Certainly sounds bad on the surface, but I suspect more fights happen at basketball practice than we care to know about. Maybe we should let it play out before we through Groce under the bus just because we don't like his coaching, There is certainly some financial incentive why the plaintiff's side would want it to sound as bad as possible.
Yeah, I read that and I see very little to blame Groce for*. A basketball player punches another bball player, and the lawyer immediately thinks, who can I sue? I sure can't sue the guy who did it, because he doesn't have any money. Ah, the coach and the school, they have money, we'll sue them because they witnessed it, and have responsibilities we can tie to the incident.

*I'm not taking a position, just that the accusation needs evidence of how Groce made it happen, or was negligent to somehow allow this guy to punch him. The claims in this seem borderline outlandish, although there are circumstances that could establish a degree of negligence if he has a pattern of seeing this behavior and doing nothing meaningful.

Lawsuits, especially ones for large amounts of money for emotional distress, need a dose of skepticism before joining the justice mob.
 
#11
Mad Scientist
Arizona, USA
A lot of you sure are jumping the gun. What happened to this kid is awful, but it's 100% premature to immediately assume Groce had anything to do with it as the lawsuit claims. This article obviously only includes one side of the story: the one told by the lawsuit. This is not the same as proven fact. Groce may be culpable in some way, but perhaps let the legal system do its thing before tossing him under the bus.
 
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#12
Yeah, I read that and I see very little to blame Groce for*. A basketball player punches another bball player, and the lawyer immediately thinks, who can I sue? I sure can't sue the guy who did it, because he doesn't have any money. Ah, the coach and the school, they have money, we'll sue them because they witnessed it, and have responsibilities we can tie to the incident.

*I'm not taking a position, just that the accusation needs evidence of how Groce made it happen, or was negligent to somehow allow this guy to punch him. The claims in this seem borderline outlandish, although there are circumstances that could establish a degree of negligence if he has a pattern of seeing this behavior and doing nothing meaningful.

Lawsuits, especially ones for large amounts of money for emotional distress, need a dose of skepticism before joining the justice mob.
I could not agree more. This is silly. The only way to even sniff a claim holding Groce in any way liable for the intentional actions of someone else is to make allegations of outrageous conduct (and find a P’s atty who is willing to sign his or her name to the pleading). That’s why it looks like this.
 
#14
Boy, that's a slippery slope that Akron is on right now. The fact that the kid pled guilty sure helps. He recognized and accepted that assault charges. It's the discrimination part that they'll have to walk a fine line on, but it's also the charge that would cash the biggest check. Glad it's not our problem.
 
#15
Chicago, IL
The nature of the beating and the negligence in not helping the player get medical treatment sounds terrible. But is it just me or does discrimination against someone for being white and Catholic (in midwestern America, no less) sound like a tough case to prove?
Re: religion, depends what part of the state he's in. Catholics aren't a super minority, but you do get some pretty virulent anti-Catholic rhetoric in some places there. If there's anything in writing/text/screenshot from guys on the team giving him hell for it, he might have a case.

I'd also venture to say that his attorney wouldn't include it if he didn't think they had at least a chance of it sticking. It might not be a good chance, but I doubt they threw it in for the hell of it.
 
#16
The nature of the beating and the negligence in not helping the player get medical treatment sounds terrible. But is it just me or does discrimination against someone for being white and Catholic (in midwestern America, no less) sound like a tough case to prove?
Negligence on treatment seems to be biggest issue.

It's just you on discrimination. Who cares what the makeup of the town is. I don't see how that is a factor
 
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#17
Charlotte, NC
Re: religion, depends what part of the state he's in. Catholics aren't a super minority, but you do get some pretty virulent anti-Catholic rhetoric in some places there. If there's anything in writing/text/screenshot from guys on the team giving him hell for it, he might have a case.

I'd also venture to say that his attorney wouldn't include it if he didn't think they had at least a chance of it sticking. It might not be a good chance, but I doubt they threw it in for the hell of it.
Okay, good points there. I'm sure some on here are more familiar with this stuff than me. I just don't recall seeing many anti-white/anti-Catholic lawsuits being thrown around.
 
#18
Chicago, IL
Okay, good points there. I'm sure some on here are more familiar with this stuff than me. I just don't recall seeing many anti-white/anti-Catholic lawsuits being thrown around.
That's because you're right. It's incredibly difficult to prove.

EDIT: Forgot to say in both posts that they likely need (or have) evidence that Groce was reasonably aware this was happening. Think it happening at practice, an assistant saw/heard/knew etc.
 
#19
Yeah, I read that and I see very little to blame Groce for*. A basketball player punches another bball player, and the lawyer immediately thinks, who can I sue? I sure can't sue the guy who did it, because he doesn't have any money. Ah, the coach and the school, they have money, we'll sue them because they witnessed it, and have responsibilities we can tie to the incident.

*I'm not taking a position, just that the accusation needs evidence of how Groce made it happen, or was negligent to somehow allow this guy to punch him. The claims in this seem borderline outlandish, although there are circumstances that could establish a degree of negligence if he has a pattern of seeing this behavior and doing nothing meaningful.

Lawsuits, especially ones for large amounts of money for emotional distress, need a dose of skepticism before joining the justice mob.
An example close to home: https://www.thechampaignroom.com/2016/4/12/11415736/illinois-womens-basketball-lawsuit-settlement-fighting-illini-news
 
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#20
Where did you see the police report? Or are you just taking the one quote in the article.

Certainly sounds bad on the surface, but I suspect more fights happen at basketball practice than we care to know about. Maybe we should let it play out before we through Groce under the bus just because we don't like his coaching, There is certainly some financial incentive why the plaintiff's side would want it to sound as bad as possible.
Just the line in the article. I don't think you saw me throwing Groce under the bus though. I don't doubt that fights happen in basketball practice, but I would be surprised to find out there are many that end up with one player in the ER.
 
#21
Chicago, IL
Just the line in the article. I don't think you saw me throwing Groce under the bus though. I don't doubt that fights happen in basketball practice, but I would be surprised to find out there are many that end up with one player in the ER.
Or that let them forgo medical treatment on site to drive an hour or more home to get to a doctor, only to find out they need emergency surgery.

I like Groce as a person, but that's a real bad look if it's true.
 
#22
Just the line in the article. I don't think you saw me throwing Groce under the bus though. I don't doubt that fights happen in basketball practice, but I would be surprised to find out there are many that end up with one player in the ER.
The bus comment was just me being lazy to split up the rest of the comments.

Yes this obviously was an extreme case...but at some point once you start throwing punches bad things can happen. Go way back to Rudy Tomjanovich, wasn't even in the start of that, runs down the court & gets his clocked clean, this stuff happens fast and if it is out of control it is hard to stop at that point. Fine line between controlled aggressiveness and uncontrolled aggression
 
#23
Michigan
Or that let them forgo medical treatment on site to drive an hour or more home to get to a doctor, only to find out they need emergency surgery.

I like Groce as a person, but that's a real bad look if it's true.
Agree it's a bad look. Not sure what transpired, or what the normal process is for evaluating injuries, but if they thought he was ok...well, they missed pretty badly.

I think one thing that will come up is whether it was assault that should have been reported to the police, and who needed to do so. Hard to say much without knowing the facts. But you look at some of the other recent scandals involving supervising athletes, and covering up or ignoring an incident can result in more trouble than the incident itself.

I'll take a wild stab at the outcome: after the initial posturing, they settle and it goes away. Winning will cure it completely; losing will turn it into a strike against him when/if he's canned.
 
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#24
Urbana, IL
I'd like to give Groce the benefit of the doubt on this one.
 
#25
Texas
A lot of you sure are jumping the gun. What happened to this kid is awful, but it's 100% premature to immediately assume Groce had anything to do with it as the lawsuit claims. This article obviously only includes one side of the story: the one told by the lawsuit. This is not the same as proven fact. Groce may be culpable in some way, but perhaps let the legal system do its thing before tossing him under the bus.
It's 2019, what kind of sense does that make?