Illini Basketball 2018-2019

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#651      

ILL in IA

ILL in IA
Iowa City
ILL in IA
Newman said:
It seems to be true based on most of the videos posted but it's not a miraculous effort on Fletcher's end. Most high school players aren't exposed to a good strength and conditioning program so they enter college with a low baseline. You'll hear more about the guys that weren't known for their athleticism because they make the biggest initial jumps. e.g. Malcolm Hill, Ayo, Frazier. You're not going to hear about a guy that was already a pogo stick improving more than 2-3 inches in the first year.
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Some of the gains in vertical or any testing these guys take at the start and end of the summer workouts can be made on technique alone. So what is gained in the vertical leap "evaluation" may show up as 5 inches, but said player most likely didn't add 5 inches to his in-game
ability to rise up and dunk a basketball.
 
#652      

CoalCity

C
St Paul, MN
CoalCity
Second and Chalmers said:
We want Ayo to be Melo Trimble, not Fultz. It's a good thing that he's not an NBA scouting darling.
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I'd like to see his career emulate Brunson's. Just a bit more successful than Melo and got better over the years. I always thought Melo peaked early then kind of leveled out.
 
#654      

FiveStar

F
FiveStar
CoalCity said:
I'd like to see his career emulate Brunson's. Just a bit more successful than Melo and got better over the years. I always thought Melo peaked early then kind of leveled out.
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Trimble waited too long to enter the draft. Went from first round lock to borderline prospect. Say what you want about the education part, but you gotta go when your name is hot.
 
#655      

IlliniDent

IlliniDent
Chicago, IL
IlliniDent
Newman said:
It seems to be true based on most of the videos posted but it's not a miraculous effort on Fletcher's end. Most high school players aren't exposed to a good strength and conditioning program so they enter college with a low baseline. You'll hear more about the guys that weren't known for their athleticism because they make the biggest initial jumps. e.g. Malcolm Hill, Ayo, Frazier. You're not going to hear about a guy that was already a pogo stick improving more than 2-3 inches in the first year.
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Exactly, Ayo's vertical looked pretty poor in highlights. If he is just now getting intense training and work to improve that, he could definitely see a significant increase from strength training, technique, and increased flexibility.
 
#659      

Berg88

B
Berg88
alamocityillini said:
Illini basketball ranked #21 in ESPN BPI index
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My cursory search wasn't able to reveal much more as to how this is calculated, but from the article, it weighs quantity of experience, quality of experience, recruiting ranks (with emphasis on 5 stars), and coach's past performance. Using those 4 as variables, how do we come close to the top 25? I'd love to get more details if anyone knows where they are. Also, Wisconsin at 8???
 
#662      

TownieMatt

T
CU Expat
Chicago
TownieMatt
So 21 in BPI, likely won't be top 100 in KenPom. Unfortunately, I know which is closer to the truth.
 
#663      

dbeverly26

dbeverly26
dbeverly26
TownieMatt said:
So 21 in BPI, likely won't be top 100 in KenPom. Unfortunately, I know which is closer to the truth.
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I'm guessing that Pomeroy will have them around the 80-90 range this year. He bases his initial rankings on a couple of things -- returning minutes as they pertain to the quality and volume of scoring, and high-profile (i.e. 5-star and high 4-star) incoming recruits.

I did the math a while back and under Pomeroy's metrics they actually have more returning this year than last. Black is a huge loss, but he also took a huge leap forward last year and that wouldn't have been priced into Pomeroy's initial ranking. And aside from him, there really wasn't anyone of note returning to the program, nor was there anyone comparable to Ayo coming aboard.

Absent some major leaps forward from multiple guys this is not a top-25 team, and frankly I'm not sure why ESPN even bothers to cover basketball given how bad they are at it. But objectively, there's more talent and experience returning in critical roles (i.e. guys who will be on the court for big minutes and taking a high volume of shots) than there was last year.
 
#664      

ILL in IA

ILL in IA
Iowa City
ILL in IA
Berg88 said:
My cursory search wasn't able to reveal much more as to how this is calculated, but from the article, it weighs quantity of experience, quality of experience, recruiting ranks (with emphasis on 5 stars), and coach's past performance. Using those 4 as variables, how do we come close to the top 25? I'd love to get more details if anyone knows where they are. Also, Wisconsin at 8???
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Is Ayo a 5* on ESPN? The only things we look good on are BU's historical performance as a head coach, and how ESPN thinks Ayo can impact the team.
 
#670      

sacraig

sacraig
The desert
sacraig
Tron2010 said:
Created an argument on the Mizzou board. That alone is awesome!
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You must be some kind of saint to even venture onto their board. Their message board software and layout is even more outdated and terrible than IL was before this recent upgrade.
 
#671      

ChiefIllini

C
ChiefIllini
Bart Torvik has us at 47.

There's gotta be some underlying metric that weights teams too heavily that both Torvik and BPI use. Iowa, NW, and UI are all around 20s in BPI and each are repectively 31, 50, and 47 according to Torvik. I would assume models like what Torvik and KenPom use are pretty much useless until Dec., but still kinda crazy we are considered even a top 50 team by a couple of services is crazy. I really think anything is still possible, but history tells me youth and inexperience are hard obstacles for teams to over come. More talented teams have done very bad. If we finish a top 50 team, BU deserves all the credit.
 
#672      

Obelix

Obelix
Obelix
Berg88 said:
Ayo is 4* on ESPN. And BU has a nice history, but it's short and making the tournament 3 out of 5 years isn't THAT impressive. It's good, especially given that he spent 3 years at SFA, but it's not mind blowing. :noidea:
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BU made the tournament 4 out of 5 years, but still as short tenure.
 
#673      

Second and Chalmers

S
Second and Chalmers
ChiefIllini said:
Bart Torvik has us at 47.

There's gotta be some underlying metric that weights teams too heavily that both Torvik and BPI use. Iowa, NW, and UI are all around 20s in BPI and each are repectively 31, 50, and 47 according to Torvik. I would assume models like what Torvik and KenPom use are pretty much useless until Dec., but still kinda crazy we are considered even a top 50 team by a couple of services is crazy. I really think anything is still possible, but history tells me youth and inexperience are hard obstacles for teams to over come. More talented teams have done very bad. If we finish a top 50 team, BU deserves all the credit.
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Yeah, it's just hard to figure where a projection like that would be coming from in these numbers-only type systems.

But, no use getting too worked up over preseason projections one way or another. All will be revealed on the court in due time.

That Torvik thing projects AJ and De La Rosa as two of our best and most-relied-upon players. A different spin from the conventional wisdom around here for sure. It could happen.
 
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#675      

skyIdub

skyIdub
Winged Warrior
skyIdub
Just another confirmation of why I don't watch or read ESPN at all, unless there is a game they have nationally that isn't available elsewhere (not often for me).
Clueless, arrogant, self aggrandizing garbage 24/7. It's a shell of what was a beautiful compilation of sports programming.

Now it's just full of idiots yelling at each other about the two worst leagues in America, the NFL and NBA.
 
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